Alaskan Pipeline Corrosion

[ducati996]

Not really sure why I'm responding but here it goes any way
1. Net neutrality: Is a good thing don't disagree with you there the consumer pay's $35-$50 a month for a pipe should not matter what is stuffed into that pipe.
2. Lines paid for a long time ago: Your point? When you are in business you want to pay down your over head, just because they are paid for it doesn't mean your competitor's should be allowed to come get fat off of your investment.
3. Ruined the competitive landscape: During the week I work on special ckt's and about 95% are for clec's or AT&T and if asked in on the weekend's I do res. pot's. More and more the maint. job's are for clec's or reseller's but, after 3 or 4 maint visit's from the LEC trying to get us to fix their CPE and getting billed because the clec or reseller did not tell them they don't support what they sell, they soon realize that contract they signed to save a few buck's was not worth it. That is not the FCC's or Rboc's fault is it?
4. Back on topic: You did not argue any of the buisness point's I made So do you agree? If so are oil companies not business's?

The oil companies are a monoply - with that the standard landscape of competitivenesss dosent exist. Its a required resource basically like food and water.

As for the rest of your responses - you have to re-read what I wrote earlier as to why the lines were leased to wholesalers - Its was a honest deal that was broken and not honed by the FCC - in summary the Baby bells wanted to sell long distance, so they had to give up something in return. The last mile was a profitable revenue cash cow, paid in full many years ago. All profits, so now they had to offer discounts. They didnt complain at first because they wanted the Long distance. They started to complain when they saw they could get what they wanted (raise rates and get LD). As for the quuality of workers - I have seen crappy workers on both sides, and its wide spread in Union shops. They will be letting go a lot more to make the numbers better...

 

[_RaT_]

How long do you think that will be when they they merge? Its a funny thing when you look around and see you no longer have choice and the provider has no competition. Dont think for a second your rates wont go up shortly afterwards. Nobody to stop them, and you no longer have a choice. If you say Voip, you will see sudden a dedegration of service, lost calls or unable to connect to certain areas. They will be blocking ports, IPs, etc for Voip providers, to stiffle competiton and force them to raise pay more for service and raise your rates if you have the service. This is prophecy my friend and it will happen soon enough....

Again, sorry for the misunderstanding, but AT&T was purchased by SBC and rebaged AT&T, in essence merged. If this is not what you meant then my other comment is that SureWest, Comcast, Verizon and others I am not even aware of all vying for our business. There is no lack of competition out here, its fierce. I cannot really complain about the service or the cost, it seems fair. Now you could get me started on electrical costs as I think we pay considerably more then the rest of the country, about 28 cents kilowatt after all the tiers, distribution, transmission and actual KW cost are considered. On the otherhand, while electricity is necessary to keep our food cold, the degree to how much I use to be comfortable is entirely up to me. We run our AC very little knowing that in the end, we will pay for it. The same applies to the amount of gasoline and diesel we use. We definitely are conserving since the price was at about $2.50/gallon, our choice. Does it make things tougher, sure, but it also makes one think about what they are doing. I look forward to eventually getting a car that has superb fuel economy, until then, we just cutback.

 

[Bird]

about 28 cents kilowatt

That's hard to imagine. I thought my last electric bill of $313.59 was terrible, but for 2041 kw, I guess that's not much more than fifteen and a third cents per kilowatt.

 

[ducati996]

Again, sorry for the misunderstanding, but AT&T was purchased by SBC and rebaged AT&T, in essence merged. If this is not what you meant then my other comment is that SureWest, Comcast, Verizon and others I am not even aware of all vying for our business. There is no lack of competition out here, its fierce. I cannot really complain about the service or the cost, it seems fair. Now you could get me started on electrical costs as I think we pay considerably more then the rest of the country, about 28 cents kilowatt after all the tiers, distribution, transmission and actual KW cost are considered. On the otherhand, while electricity is necessary to keep our food cold, the degree to how much I use to be comfortable is entirely up to me. We run our AC very little knowing that in the end, we will pay for it. The same applies to the amount of gasoline and diesel we use. We definitely are conserving since the price was at about $2.50/gallon, our choice. Does it make things tougher, sure, but it also makes one think about what they are doing. I look forward to eventually getting a car that has superb fuel economy, until then, we just cutback.

No problem Rat - you have to understand the telecomm landscape to see how much you dont have to get the full picture. I will give you the 1000 ft view....The old boil the frog analogy comes to mind. You put the frog in the water at normal temps, he dosent mind. Slowly raise the heat, he dosent notice until its too late. AT&T (SBC & AT&T) last goal is to acquire bellsouth. Making it the largest in the world owing the larget data network, which the bulk of the world traffic crosses or is carried on it. The other would be Verizon & MCI owning basically the other half. Dont think the constrictor will not come out to play. All you little local guys offering bandwidth will have to pay more for access. But the big guys dont have to raise their rates since its their own network. You make the small guys non-competitive and they get eliminated. As mentioned before the net neutrality is a very good idea keeping the monoplies from controlling the Information super highway. Trust me you will be paying a lot more - they will move quickly on this since the frog has been sitting in the pot for a while now.....But the phones and Internet arent really that important, you can just cut it off and go back to using the "code of silence" from Get Smart. All kidding aside The only things that are more important to Oil - is food and water.

 

[Volfandt]

>Diamonds you dont need, and neither are plumbers if you can do it yourself <

You'll still need plumbers for new construction and/or major plumbing remodeling as most municiple codes require a certified plumber to sign off on the project

I also work in the telecom industry, started out in the interconnect sector and now with a CLEC. There is no "true" competiton here. We are able to lease the local telco's transport facilities and provide an enduser with a product at nearly half the cost of the local provider. We hang eqt at both ends and call it "our" circuit
If a problem occurs and it's not the eqt at either end, the local telco must repair the transport facilities at no cost to us nor the enduser, and the local telco must also shoulder the cost of maintaining all the transport and switching facilities too.....
Granted we do have our own switching and transport facilities, some of which we lease to our, ahem, competitiors, but our overhead is nowhere near that of the local telco's....
Even though I benefit highly from this arrangement, it is NOT fair competition and a simple swipe of a judges pen could undo what another's started......

Try as I may, I do not recall anyone holding a gun to my head forcing me to purchase and use gasoline powered machines. Nor did anyone force me to live out way beyond the limit of a mass transit system. I chose this of my own accord.
I didn't vote for those that were able to stop the production
of nuclear facilities and other forms of energy but I am still, non-the-less saddled with their narrow and short sided vision which makes oil that much more valuable.

I do agree that at this time oil IS as important as food and water.....

Volfandt

 

[_RaT_]

No problem Rat - you have to understand the telecomm landscape to see how much you dont have to get the full picture. I will give you the 1000 ft view....The old boil the frog analogy comes to mind. You put the frog in the water at normal temps, he dosent mind. Slowly raise the heat, he dosent notice until its too late. AT&T (SBC & AT&T) last goal is to acquire bellsouth. Making it the largest in the world owing the larget data network, which the bulk of the world traffic crosses or is carried on it. The other would be Verizon & MCI owning basically the other half. Dont think the constrictor will not come out to play. All you little local guys offering bandwidth will have to pay more for access. But the big guys dont have to raise their rates since its their own network. You make the small guys non-competitive and they get eliminated. As mentioned before the net neutrality is a very good idea keeping the monoplies from controlling the Information super highway. Trust me you will be paying a lot more - they will move quickly on this since the frog has been sitting in the pot for a while now.....But the phones and Internet arent really that important, you can just cut it off and go back to using the "code of silence" from Get Smart. All kidding aside The only things that are more important to Oil - is food and water.

Good explanation, thanks.

 

[_RaT_]

That's hard to imagine. I thought my last electric bill of $313.59 was terrible, but for 2041 kw, I guess that's not much more than fifteen and a third cents per kilowatt.

Bird, I'll have to dig up the bill for last month, the most expensive bill to date at three hundred and some odd dollars. We live in a 2100 sf ft home, one AC unit and decent shade and insulating/ heat reflecting qualities.

PS, our gas and electricity is combined into one. Our gas bill is typically quite low though.

 

[ducati996]

>Diamonds you dont need, and neither are plumbers if you can do it yourself <

You'll still need plumbers for new construction and/or major plumbing remodeling as most municiple codes require a certified plumber to sign off on the project

I also work in the telecom industry, started out in the interconnect sector and now with a CLEC. There is no "true" competiton here. We are able to lease the local telco's transport facilities and provide an enduser with a product at nearly half the cost of the local provider. We hang eqt at both ends and call it "our" circuit
If a problem occurs and it's not the eqt at either end, the local telco must repair the transport facilities at no cost to us nor the enduser, and the local telco must also shoulder the cost of maintaining all the transport and switching facilities too.....
Granted we do have our own switching and transport facilities, some of which we lease to our, ahem, competitiors, but our overhead is nowhere near that of the local telco's....
Even though I benefit highly from this arrangement, it is NOT fair competition and a simple swipe of a judges pen could undo what another's started......

Try as I may, I do not recall anyone holding a gun to my head forcing me to purchase and use gasoline powered machines. Nor did anyone force me to live out way beyond the limit of a mass transit system. I chose this of my own accord.
I didn't vote for those that were able to stop the production
of nuclear facilities and other forms of energy but I am still, non-the-less saddled with their narrow and short sided vision which makes oil that much more valuable.

I do agree that at this time oil IS as important as food and water.....

Volfandt

Your last sentence says it all - pretty much sums up this entire thread and spells out we do not have any choice. Keep in mind energy is built into everything we need and consume and has a direct effect on inflation - it dosent matter how independent or self sufficient someone claims to be, there is no way around it - and only a few companies control it.

As for your telco back ground - please reviews what you paid for access or leases at those tariff rates lets say from 2000 and compare them to now. And then one more year from now. You are easily looking at 30 -40 % increases.

As for where you live and if you use gasoline - it dosent matter really because for a lot of people the jobs are closer to a metropolis, or in your case you chose a diesel over a gas engine - that really dosent prove your point, only enchances mine. Its still made from crude oil. If you used only a horse or goat to cut you lawn, then you would be a rebel and a inspiration for those who want to find alternatives.

 

[_RaT_]

"Big Oil", how about "Gigantic Oil"

http://www.economist.com/opinion/displaystory.cfm?story_id=7276986

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Some here suggest you don't need diamonds.

Some here suggest you don't need a plumber.

Some here suggest you do need a plumber but not diamonds.

Some here suggest you need gasoline.

I specifically chose those 2 examples because they are examples that illustrate a point. The point is we all make choices in how we live our lives and there are people living "off the grid" they run their cars on electricity or reclaimed vegetable oil, or they ride bikes, or they walk.

I'm amazed how much "stuff" people NEED to have. In the 1930s and 40's a typical home was roughly 1200 square feet, those typical homes housed families that had 2 parents and 4 to 5 children. In the 1960s home sizes were 1500 to 1600 square feet and housed families of 2 parents and roughly 3 children, there was typically 1 car and if you were lucky a garage to put it in. In the 1980's home sizes topped 1800 square feet and housed families of 1 or 2 parents and 2 kids, there were 2 cars in a 2 car garage. I look at the fast growing neighborhoods today and see familes of 2 or 3 people and homes that are often 3000 to 4000 (or more) square feet, 3 car garages are becoming normal, and teenagers have their own cars. Apparently we NEED more stuff.

We need to live far away from work. We need to live in bigger homes than our parents lived in. We need to have more vehicles than our parents had.

Consider the TELEPHONE . . . my parents had 1 phone in the house when I was a kid in the 1960s. My mothers house did not have a phone when she was growing up. My house has 7 or 8 (?) phones, my garage has a phone. My other garage has 2 phones. I have a cell phone. My wife has a cell phone. My daughter has a cell phone. Amazingly enough I hate telephones. A typical family spends about $200 on phone and cellphone bills each month.

Consider the TELEVISION . . . my parents grew up without it. We got a B&W set in the mid 1960's. There was no such thing as cable TV, you got 'free' reception. Today a typical home as 3 or 4 TV sets (some have many more) and it is common for people to pay $75 to $100 per month for cable or satellite TV.

Consider the INTERNET . . . Al Gore invented after we all grew up, it is not uncommon to spend $50 or more per month for high speed connections.

The reality is we CHOOSE to have these things, we do not NEED to have them. How does all this relate to the PIPELINE CORROSION issue? Simple, because we choose to live with all this stuff, we incur massive bills for things that in real terms are pretty meaningless, but force us into lifestyles that require long communtes, 2 dual incomes to pay for the stuff, and often forces children (when they are old enough) to drive themselves around because we are too busy working and we live too far away for them to walk to school.

People who say they HAVE to have things are simply slaves to the choices they make of their own accord. This lifestyle is becoming common, and it will lead to innovation. But while some folks ask for government intervention, what the government is really doing is getting in the way of innovation. When it becomes economically feasible alternatives will be presented, like biodiesel. But the government has made emissions regulations so difficult to meet that biodiesel is not feasible because diesel engines are nearly impossible to buy in automobiles.

Don't ask for the government to get any more involved in the oil business, ask for them to get out of the way of our lives to allow for alternatives so we are not dependant upon traditional oil.

 

[_RaT_]

Some here suggest you don't need diamonds.

Some here suggest you don't need a plumber.

Some here suggest you do need a plumber but not diamonds.

Some here suggest you need gasoline.

I specifically chose those 2 examples because they are examples that illustrate a point. The point is we all make choices in how we live our lives and there are people living "off the grid" they run their cars on electricity or reclaimed vegetable oil, or they ride bikes, or they walk.

I'm amazed how much "stuff" people NEED to have. In the 1930s and 40's a typical home was roughly 1200 square feet, those typical homes housed families that had 2 parents and 4 to 5 children. In the 1960s home sizes were 1500 to 1600 square feet and housed families of 2 parents and roughly 3 children, there was typically 1 car and if you were lucky a garage to put it in. In the 1980's home sizes topped 1800 square feet and housed families of 1 or 2 parents and 2 kids, there were 2 cars in a 2 car garage. I look at the fast growing neighborhoods today and see familes of 2 or 3 people and homes that are often 3000 to 4000 (or more) square feet, 3 car garages are becoming normal, and teenagers have their own cars. Apparently we NEED more stuff.

We need to live far away from work. We need to live in bigger homes than our parents lived in. We need to have more vehicles than our parents had.

Consider the TELEPHONE . . . my parents had 1 phone in the house when I was a kid in the 1960s. My mothers house did not have a phone when she was growing up. My house has 7 or 8 (?) phones, my garage has a phone. My other garage has 2 phones. I have a cell phone. My wife has a cell phone. My daughter has a cell phone. Amazingly enough I hate telephones. A typical family spends about $200 on phone and cellphone bills each month.

Consider the TELEVISION . . . my parents grew up without it. We got a B&W set in the mid 1960's. There was no such thing as cable TV, you got 'free' reception. Today a typical home as 3 or 4 TV sets (some have many more) and it is common for people to pay $75 to $100 per month for cable or satellite TV.

Consider the INTERNET . . . Al Gore invented after we all grew up, it is not uncommon to spend $50 or more per month for high speed connections.

The reality is we CHOOSE to have these things, we do not NEED to have them. How does all this relate to the PIPELINE CORROSION issue? Simple, because we choose to live with all this stuff, we incur massive bills for things that in real terms are pretty meaningless, but force us into lifestyles that require long communtes, 2 dual incomes to pay for the stuff, and often forces children (when they are old enough) to drive themselves around because we are too busy working and we live too far away for them to walk to school.

People who say they HAVE to have things are simply slaves to the choices they make of their own accord. This lifestyle is becoming common, and it will lead to innovation. But while some folks ask for government intervention, what the government is really doing is getting in the way of innovation. When it becomes economically feasible alternatives will be presented, like biodiesel. But the government has made emissions regulations so difficult to meet that biodiesel is not feasible because diesel engines are nearly impossible to buy in automobiles.

Don't ask for the government to get any more involved in the oil business, ask for them to get out of the way of our lives to allow for alternatives so we are not dependant upon traditional oil.

Bob, I'd give you a brownie button but theres a huge demand for them right now which has caused the price to sky rocket. "Big Brownie Button" has few competitors and thus they control the supply which consequently controls the price. I tried to get into the brownie button business myself to seize on the high prices but the government put a stop to it citing I did not have any of the required enviromental studys which would allow for their production. A pity because I can produce them and ship them for half the price of any of my competitors.

I have really enjoyed this thread. I have a new group of fellows here at TBN who's opinion I have a lot of respect for. Keep up the good work. Its reassuring to know that my idealogy is not unique.

PS: did you know that Al Gore invented the Brownie Button back in 1837?

 

[monkeymonk]

If you used only a horse or goat to cut you lawn, then you would be a rebel and a inspiration for those who want to find alternatives.

Thanks!
Rebel yes.... but an inspiration that might upset some folks round here.

their my neighbors horse's....... does that still count.

Bob is pretty right on it.
I know several folks,who in the modern world live on nothing..no phone,car,machines,... home made water wheels,horses,gardens,pedal power,hand tools,...Super Cowboy Simple. These folks are rare and are an inspiration to live off/on less and not get caught up which can be easy to do.
When i go to town theres always some billboard telling me to buy this try, that,you want to be a real man than,T.V,Blah,Blah,Blah....Its easy to get caught up if theres Always something telling you to....

Of course these people still use petreloum proucts...toothbrush,hoses,the little things these folks are not self righteous or protesting..just the way They choose to live..

If we use less "They" would make less and.......Dinner Time.

 

[ducati996]

The reality is we CHOOSE to have these things, we do not NEED to have them. How does all this relate to the PIPELINE CORROSION issue? Simple, because we choose to live with all this stuff, we incur massive bills for things that in real terms are pretty meaningless, but force us into lifestyles that require long communtes, 2 dual incomes to pay for the stuff, and often forces children (when they are old enough) to drive themselves around because we are too busy working and we live too far away for them to walk to school.

People who say they HAVE to have things are simply slaves to the choices they make of their own accord. This lifestyle is becoming common, and it will lead to innovation. But while some folks ask for government intervention, what the government is really doing is getting in the way of innovation. When it becomes economically feasible alternatives will be presented, like biodiesel. But the government has made emissions regulations so difficult to meet that biodiesel is not feasible because diesel engines are nearly impossible to buy in automobiles.

Don't ask for the government to get any more involved in the oil business, ask for them to get out of the way of our lives to allow for alternatives so we are not dependant upon traditional oil.

I dunno Bob all this coming from someone who has more than most - I say this not to cause a stir or to upset you but it is always easier for those who have an abudance of material items to be lazzie fare on how things should be regulated when there clearly is a need for consumer protection. I would like you to set the example and give up your prized possesions which you feel isnt that important as a whole. I honestly dont believe it....I would also like to see how you can get around the impact of Oil has in your life and family - I would assume you would then be living like those in 3rd world nations. To each his own, but its very easy to talk about these things - its a whole different world in actually doing or living it. Bottom line Oil is a vital component for a basic quality of life and lifestyle. And Im not even talking about the affluent lifestyle you described above (in the earlier full post), which is just the perfect example of having too much IMHO. Again I dont flaunt and live in Hyprocrosy - not saying you do either and its not directed at you personally....but I would be willing to bet, if you were living pay check to paycheck, the attitude I see and hear (from the folks in support of the Oil companies) would be of a different tone.

 

[slowrev]

The pipeline corrosion is like a farmer keeping raising crops but putting nothing back into the land and then one day wondering why nothing grows.
they cut doen on the corrosion inhibiting chemicals to increase short term profit which equals a long term shot in ones own foot.

 

[ducati996]

The pipeline corrosion is like a farmer keeping raising crops but putting nothing back into the land and then one day wondering why nothing grows.
they cut doen on the corrosion inhibiting chemicals to increase short term profit which equals a long term shot in ones own foot.

I dont think so - it will raise prices and they will still make money IMHO
produce less, make more or certainly not lose money

 

[escavader]

This might sound stupid,but how does a pipe filled with oil rust any way? Certainly not from the inside ,right?Or does it?
ALAN

 

[_RaT_]

This might sound stupid,but how does a pipe filled with oil rust any way? Certainly not from the inside ,right?Or does it?
ALAN

I was reading about that. Apparently there is a microbe that is causing to to decay. Now you might ask, what is a microbe? Good question, it did not go into that. I was suprised to see just how much the Alaskan government depends on the oil producers up there for their revenue in order to pay state employees. Its huge. Perhaps California will allow drilling off their coast someday when oil is $180 barrel and we can do the same. Naw, never mind, they'll implement more programs.

 

[Bird]

This might sound stupid,but how does a pipe filled with oil rust any way? Certainly not from the inside ,right?Or does it?
ALAN

Yep, Alan, from the inside. That crude oil is a little bit different from the refined stuff we usually think of as "oil".

 

[Bob_Skurka]

but it is always easier for those who have an abudance of material items to be lazzie fare on how things should be regulated when there clearly is a need for consumer protection.

Protection from what? The consumers, you & me, in the US are using MORE AND MORE oil every month. Consumption is going UP. So if the oil companies make 5% on every gallon of fuel, and they are sell more and more fuel, then they SHOULD make more money. Now in additon to the fact that they are selling MORE fuel to you and me, they are also being charged more so the 5% margin equals an extra penny or two per gallon. But that is not gouging as you suggest. What you are suggesting is simple communism. Fix the price and let the economy go to the dumps. That is the fact of what you suggest.

I would like you to set the example and give up your prized possesions which you feel isnt that important as a whole. I honestly dont believe it....

I'm not sure what you are asking here. But I could give up guns, Swiss watches, dogs, and Hawaiian shirts without impacting oil.

I would also like to see how you can get around the impact of Oil has in your life and family - I would assume you would then be living like those in 3rd world nations.

Wow bad assumption! I would likely not live where I live, or I would have built a different house if I chose to live without much assistance and impact of oil. But my choice was not to do that. Again it was my choice. I could have put photovoltaic panels on the roof to generate electricity, as well as heat collectors to heat water. As I live on a ridge line with prevailing winds, I could up up a wind generator. People here on TBN have done all those things. I simply choose not to. I've looked at, and considered, and done cost analysis on hybrid cars. I chose an inefficient SUV instead. It was my choice. I understand the consequences.


What I don't understand is how anyone today can espouse communist style price controls when all that does is destroy nations and people. I'm just old enough to have been able to extensively travel to a couple of the communist nations of eastern Europe while they were still solidly under the grip of communism. I can tell you first hand, it did not work! Quality fell. Innovation ceased. You tell me, in what nation that built an economic model based on price controls are the people better off than in ANY western nation?

I do understand that you have some emotional reason to want price controls, but you clearly do not understand the consequences. What you want is less pain at the pump. But you think the answer is simple, just fix the price. While I want the same thing, less pain at the pump, I understand that the answer is complex. I realize that if the government would get its head out of its rear end we could be driving a lot more diesel vehicles, and those are more efficient so we would not need as much fuel. Demand would drop if we had just 5% of our cars running diesel, but imagine if we had 40% of our vehicles running diesel!!! Further, if we had more diesel vehicles, we would actually have a market for "bio-diesel" so we could further reduce the need for importing oil.

Look at my signature line below each of my posts, you will see a link to an information site on the Arctic National Wildlife Reserve. We should have been harvesting that oil for the past decade! But still we are not yet drilling for oil in the single largest reserve we have. Who is to blame, the same government you are asking to fix the price at the pump!

Wall Street Journal Weighs in on the Importance of ANWR Oil

Posted on August 10th, 2006
By Kevin Kennedy in Uncategorized

THE PRUDHOE PRINCIPLE

Opponents of opening the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR) to oil exploration and drilling have long argued that the supply wouldn’t make a difference to prices. But that claim was silenced yesterday with BP’s announcement that it is shutting down its operations at Prudhoe Bay due to a damaged pipeline that could take months to patch, says the Wall Street Journal.

The news showed what a supply shock of less than 2 percent of U.S. consumption can do to the energy market:

• U.S. crude soared $2.25 on the news, taking oil to nearly $77 a barrel.
• Many experts are predicting another 5 to 10-cent a gallon price increase at the retail gasoline pump — possibly to a new high.

Those that argue ANWR’s estimated 1 million barrels per day aren’t worth the effort might have some currency if oil were plentiful and gas prices were still “only” $1.50 a gallon, says the Journal. But with the margin between global oil supply and demand so thin, any supply counts.

As it happens, House Republicans are mounting yet another effort to get ANWR opened. A majority of the Senate supports it. The latest bill promises to devote federal ANWR revenues to “alternative energy” programs, an enticement that has already gathered some Democratic support. If Congress really wanted to impress voters, it would use the BP mess as an excellent reason to increase U.S. energy supplies, says the Journal.

Source: Editorial, “The Prudhoe Principle,” the Wall Street Journal, August 8, 2006
For text (subscription required):
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB115500045447029432.html
Click HERE to find more information on ANWR.
​

Ethanol is another possible fuel source as well, and is reasonably viable. It is difficult to transport except by truck, since it can't be shipped in pipeline so that makes it more of a regional fuel, but it is limited to specially equipped vehicles which makes it scarce. Let's have the government require that we each buy an E85 vehicle next time we buy, that will increase the demand. But since it costs more for the engine, we will probably want that price fixed too?


Simple solutions, like price fixing, do not work. They have been tried, they have failed. See Cuba as a great example of a failed economy. I am pretty much under the impression that the failure of the USSR is logic enough to abandon price fixing schemes.

 

[Egon]

Corrosion can take place on the inside or outside of a metal pipe. There are many different types of processes involved depending on the circumstances.

http://http://www.reliability.com/articles/guest_article03.htm