Adding width to existing axle

[Chain Bender]

Buddy of mine gave me an axle, complete with springs, hangers and hubs several months ago. Only problem is the axle is about 12" too narrow to use on a frame I built a month prior to recieveing the free axle.

Axle is a 2X2X.250 box tube. Spindles have been welded all the way around the 2X2, so grinding them out would definitely be a hassle.

Could I just cut the axle in half and add the extra 12" needed by welding the 2X2 back into a long piece of 2X2X.250" angle or would I be better off to buy 2 new spindles/stubs and a full length piece of 2x2X.250" box and make a completely new axle? Spindles are around $30/pair and 2X2X.250" box is about $6.50/foot.

 

[Reg]

Buddy of mine gave me an axle, complete with springs, hangers and hubs several months ago. Only problem is the axle is about 12" too narrow to use on a frame I built a month prior to recieveing the free axle.

Axle is a 2X2X.250 box tube. Spindles have been welded all the way around the 2X2, so grinding them out would definitely be a hassle.

Could I just cut the axle in half and add the extra 12" needed by welding the 2X2 back into a long piece of 2X2X.250" angle or would I be better off to buy 2 new spindles/stubs and a full length piece of 2x2X.250" box and make a completely new axle? Spindles are around $30/pair and 2X2X.250" box is about $6.50/foot.

Depends how good you are - as a welder (-:

"in half" is probably the best place to do it, though 2x2x0.25 angle may not be the right choice.

 

[20 20]

in half IMO would be the only choice

 

[Chain Bender]

Depends how good you are - as a welder (-:

"in half" is probably the best place to do it, though 2x2x2.5 angle may not be the right choice.

xxxxxxxxxxxx

Thanks for your recommendations. And question.

What size stock do your recommend? 2.25X2.25 or 2.5X2.5 or 3X3? I'm talking about adding an additional 12" to an existing 48" axle.

I think my welding with a stick is good enough that I would trust it on the highway with a full load

 

[Reg]

xxxxxxxxxxxx

Thanks for your recommendations. And question.

What size stock do your recommend? 2.25X2.25 or 2.5X2.5 or 3X3? I'm talking about adding an additional 12" to an existing 48" axle.

I think my welding with a stick is good enough that I would trust it on the highway with a full load

DISCLAIMER:
I did NOT make a "recommendation".
I merely suggested that the center may be the lowest risk position and that there may be better choices than 2x2x.250

 

[Chain Bender]

DISCLAIMER:
I did NOT make a "recommendation".
I merely suggested that the center may be the lowest risk position and that there may be better choices than 2x2x.250

XXXXXXX


Yeah, I know. That's what I meant. What better choices are there than any of the three I listed above? You indicate that mine are not the best, yet you present no recommendation otherwise.

would my welding skills have changed whether to cut it or build a complete new axle?

 

[jmanatee2]

What about getting a piece of 2.25" x 2.25" inside x 3 feet long, cut your axle in the middle. put each cut end of the axle in 1 foot weld (make careful measurements of course)

The 3' outside piece will give the reinforcement of bending

 

[Snaker]

Buddy of mine gave me an axle, complete with springs, hangers and hubs several months ago. Only problem is the axle is about 12" too narrow to use on a frame I built a month prior to recieveing the free axle.

Axle is a 2X2X.250 box tube. Spindles have been welded all the way around the 2X2, so grinding them out would definitely be a hassle.

Could I just cut the axle in half and add the extra 12" needed by welding the 2X2 back into a long piece of 2X2X.250" angle or would I be better off to buy 2 new spindles/stubs and a full length piece of 2x2X.250" box and make a completely new axle? Spindles are around $30/pair and 2X2X.250" box is about $6.50/foot.

I've done something similar with a round tube axle. I might suggest getting 2' of snug smaller tubing to slip inside to tie all togather. Get extension tube that matches the original, short side of 12", to give a reasonal welding gap on each end. Weld into inner tubing first, then tie outer tubing togather.

 

[Chain Bender]

What about getting a piece of 2.25" x 2.25" inside x 3 feet long, cut your axle in the middle. put each cut end of the axle in 1 foot weld (make careful measurements of course)

The 3' outside piece will give the reinforcement of bending

XXXX

that's pretty close to what I was thinking about doing. 2.25 insde (which is a 2.5 outside) would leave me with 1/4" to weld to. I was thinking about a 4' piece and splitting the distance . Spread the cut axle out to 5' and tacking it and wleding from outside to inside and alternating sides to let the welds cool and preventing as much warpage as possible.

Next question would be, should I weld the angle on facing up or down? Or would it matter, strenght wise?

Got to run, hopefully getting staples out of TKR knee this morning.

CB

 

[Chain Bender]

I've done something similar with a round tube axle. I might suggest getting 2' of snug smaller tubing to slip inside to tie all togather. Get extension tube that matches the original, short side of 12", to give a reasonal welding gap on each end. Weld into inner tubing first, then tie outer tubing togather.

XXXXXXX

what about a 3' or 4' piece of 2.5" box and sliding the two pieces of the cut axle inside. Drill several 1/2" holes in the outside tube and filll the weld tieing the two boxes/tubes together. Circumference weld the ends of the 2.5" box. This is probably the strongest way to do it and certainly a consideration.

 

[jmanatee2]

XXXXXXX

what about a 3' or 4' piece of 2.5" box and sliding the two pieces of the cut axle inside. Drill several 1/2" holes in the outside tube and filll the weld tieing the two boxes/tubes together. Circumference weld the ends of the 2.5" box. This is probably the strongest way to do it and certainly a consideration.

Thats called a plug weld and I have done that on a hitch extension it is extremely strong!

 

[Reg]

XXXXXXX


Yeah, I know. That's what I meant. What better choices are there than any of the three I listed above? You indicate that mine are not the best, yet you present no recommendation otherwise.

would my welding skills have changed whether to cut it or build a complete new axle?

Abso-friggin'-lutely I didn't make any alternative suggestions/recommendations for materials.
I did deliberately question your choice of 2x2 angle iron.
As in "I wouldn't".

I am not qualified to even SUGGEST alternatives, we know NOTHING of your applications, no way do I want to be implicated if it all folds up due to ...any number of factors, including choice of joining material.
Sorry, but "I can't consult on that" (-:

Your skills are a certainly a factor - "in the middle" is probably the place at which they reach their lowest point as a risk factor.

 

[jmanatee2]

XXXX

that's pretty close to what I was thinking about doing. 2.25 insde (which is a 2.5 outside) would leave me with 1/4" to weld to. I was thinking about a 4' piece and splitting the distance . Spread the cut axle out to 5' and tacking it and wleding from outside to inside and alternating sides to let the welds cool and preventing as much warpage as possible.

Next question would be, should I weld the angle on facing up or down? Or would it matter, strenght wise?

Got to run, hopefully getting staples out of TKR knee this morning.

CB

I think we are in agreement on the box tube but I dont understand the additional use of the angle after... "Next question would be, should I weld the angle on facing up or down? Or would it matter, strenght wise?"

If you do the box tube and use the Plug weld idea, I would be very confident in strength.

 

[Sockwell]

We have applications pretty often where we sleeve square tubing pieces of different sizes. (Note: We are NOT working on over-the-road equipment.) We just finished a project where we wanted to make the heights of our plant work tables adjustable (ergonomics). The table frames were built from 2" sq. tube. We shortened the original legs and sleeved them inside 2.5" x 3/16" Sq. tube with a series of pin holes to give the height adjustment.

Note we did not use 2.5 x 1/4" sq. tube. This is something you need to be aware of. Most square tubing has a seam on the inside. Unless you order seamless tubing, you will not be able to simply sleeve the 2" square inside a 2.5" x 1/4" wall square.

When we have to sleeve 2" into 2.5" x 1/4", the application has to allow the 2.5" sleeve to be short enough for us to get inside it, either with a die grinder or Dynabrade belt sander, to remove the mill seam. I don't know how you could do this on a piece as long as you're talking about. For what its worth.

 

[Chain Bender]

We have applications pretty often where we sleeve square tubing pieces of different sizes. (Note: We are NOT working on over-the-road equipment.) We just finished a project where we wanted to make the heights of our plant work tables adjustable (ergonomics). The table frames were built from 2" sq. tube. We shortened the original legs and sleeved them inside 2.5" x 3/16" Sq. tube with a series of pin holes to give the height adjustment.

Note we did not use 2.5 x 1/4" sq. tube. This is something you need to be aware of. Most square tubing has a seam on the inside. Unless you order seamless tubing, you will not be able to simply sleeve the 2" square inside a 2.5" x 1/4" wall square.

When we have to sleeve 2" into 2.5" x 1/4", the application has to allow the 2.5" sleeve to be short enough for us to get inside it, either with a die grinder or Dynabrade belt sander, to remove the mill seam. I don't know how you could do this on a piece as long as you're talking about. For what its worth.

XXXXXXXX

you're right about the seam down the middle of one side of the box. I had forgotten about it until just now.

Since I plan on putting 2000 plus pounds of trailer and load over this axle I think I should just go ahead and spend the money for a 5' tube and a new set of stubs to weld in. I'll save the short axle for something smaller.

CB

 

[Chain Bender]

Abso-friggin'-lutely I didn't make any alternative suggestions/recommendations for materials.
I did deliberately question your choice of 2x2 angle iron.
As in "I wouldn't".

I am not qualified to even SUGGEST alternatives, we know NOTHING of your applications, no way do I want to be implicated if it all folds up due to ...any number of factors, including choice of joining material.
Sorry, but "I can't consult on that" (-:

Your skills are a certainly a factor - "in the middle" is probably the place at which they reach their lowest point as a risk factor.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

do you seriously think you could be "implicated" if you had said, No, Buddy, I think if it were me I'd go with a 2.5 X 2.5 X 3/8 angle and xxxx xxxxx xxxxxx

You questioned my possibilities using your rationale, but wouldn't give any reasoning. I understand now.

We're good. No worries.

Lee

 

[Chain Bender]

I think we are in agreement on the box tube but I dont understand the additional use of the angle after... ".

Me either. How did I mention it in the application. I can't find it? It's een a long day. Had a 1100 appt with knee surgeon to get 49 staples out of my knee. Had to wait several hours in the lobby with my knee down below my heart and my knee swelled up bout the size of a honey dew. Haven't been able to get much of the swelling back down since. I need to be flat on my gack with my leg stuck straight up on the wall instead of here. So I'm gonna leave it for tonight. I have learned a few things I had forgotten since I started this thread.

thanks to ALL who have had input.

Chain Bender

 

[PILOON]

The sleeve splice with snug tubing and decent overlaps is a standard accepted to repair aircraft tubular structures such as fuselages on older AC.
I refer to AC 43-13-1a +2a docs.(FAA), a bit more detailed, but then a trailer wont fly either.
For all practical purposes about a 6" overlap should cover your needs.
To spread the stresses you'd want to spot or rosette weld midway in the overlapping areas.

I spliced a couple of axles last summer in just that way. So far so good.

 

[Oliver1655]

Using a sleeve over the axle tubes is a very common method of adjusting axle widths. Mobile home movers frequently use axles with only one end of the sleeve welded and the other axle tube just floats in the sleeve. This allows them to use the same axle on a wide range of spring mounting spacing. If you think in terms of leverage, most of the stress on axles is where the spindle assy is welded to the tubing. I have adjusted axles this way, I have also cut the axles in the middle and added a section to the middle with a smaller piece of tubing inside all three sections and welded them this way. With the round tubing axles to keep the sections aligned, I clamp the sections inside a length of 3" channel iron then weld the exposed joints. (I normally leave around an 1/8" gap between the sections to allow better weld penetration.) You can then remove the channel iron an weld the rest of the seams. I have never had one fail. However if it would make you feel better, you could mark where channel iron would fit against the axle, grind the welds at these points flush, them weld the channel iron to the axle for extra strength.

 

[crash325]

XXXXXXXX

you're right about the seam down the middle of one side of the box. I had forgotten about it until just now.

Since I plan on putting 2000 plus pounds of trailer and load over this axle I think I should just go ahead and spend the money for a 5' tube and a new set of stubs to weld in. I'll save the short axle for something smaller.

CB

That is the only way to go. Forget some welded / patched up "something" for that kind of weight.