Adding Aux Hydraulics to a Mahindra 4110

[jpm]

doug i found this pic of my 2810 with the valve. sorry it's only a side pic
but it should give you a idea of it j

 

[Keith_B]

Have you considered running the grapple off the auxillary remotes on the rear of the tractor?

 

[Dougster]

doug i found this pic of my 2810 with the valve. sorry it's only a side pic but it should give you a idea of it j

Thanks very much. This is quite helpful. I think my FEL control valve is the alternate brand (can't remember which is which), but the concept would be the same. You appear to be using the power beyond port for the added grapple control. I am still trying to figure out why that is better than drawing directly from the high pressure supply line (other than fewer fittings, shorter hose, etc.). Perhaps I just answered my own question... or are there other advantages? Could a grapple spool have been directly mounted to the power beyond port with no hose or separate bracket?

BTW, I notice all four FEL hose connections all have 45 degree fittings. My 4110 has none. Is this model specific? Or did KMW cheap out on my particular FEL?

Dougster

 

[Dougster]

Have you considered running the grapple off the auxillary remotes on the rear of the tractor?

I see that others are doing this... but not with a BH installed unless they have double rear hydraulics. In my case, the Bradco 509 is connected to my single rear hydraulic port set. I was led to believe that my rear hydraulic control was effectively disabled when used with the 509. So even if tapped off the rear, I would still need to add a new grapple control valve... yes? Or am I missing something? That is entirely possible!

The bottom line is that I'm sure I will be using the grapple bucket and BH at times on the very same jobs. It would be much better if they each had their own separate power sources.

Dougster

 

[Keith_B]

You appear to be using the power beyond port for the added grapple control. I am still trying to figure out why that is better than drawing directly from the high pressure supply line (other than fewer fittings, shorter hose, etc.). Perhaps I just answered my own question... or are there other advantages? Could a grapple spool have been directly mounted to the power beyond port with no hose or separate bracket?

The advatange to using the auxillary remotes (which you refer to as power beyond) is that it is already plumbed and valved. You can operate the grapple with the valve at the operator station that works the auxilary hydraulics.

 

[Dougster]

The advatange to using the auxillary remotes (which you refer to as power beyond) is that it is already plumbed and valved. You can operate the grapple with the valve at the operator station that works the auxilary hydraulics.

Hi Keith. I am rather new to all this, so please forgive me if I am mixing up my hydraulic control terms. Let me go at this again:

JPM appears to have used the "power beyond port" of his stock FEL control valve to supply pressure to his added grapple valve. When I was initially looking at installing a separate grapple control valve, it appeared that teeing off the main pressure and dump lines made the most sense. What I would like to understand is what is the advantage of using the "power beyond port" of the FEL control valve for pressure rather than tapping directly into the main pressure supply line. I'd also like to know if an auxiliary spool can be added directly to the power beyond port of the FEL control valve such that no separate supply hose or separate mounting bracket would be necessary for the added grapple control valve.

If my understanding is correct, separate from all this is the question of using a set of rear auxiliary hydraulic ports (if available) and existing rear auxiliary port controls to run the new grapple... adding nothing but a couple of long quick connect hoses. This would be cheap and great... and I have seen other tractors with this exact arrangement... but I only have one set of rear hydraulic ports which are being used for the 509 backhoe.

Obviously, I could disconnect the backhoe hydraulics and use that set of rear ports and the onboard control to run the grapple, but I prefer not to do that as I could find myself switching these hoses more often than desirable. Further, I'm told that the 509 disables (or requires disabling of) the onboard control such that a new grapple valve ($$$) would have to be added anyway if both were to remain connected (via tees) at the same time. If I need a new valve anyway, why not do it up right and not have to worry about switching hoses to run separate implements?

I hope this all makes sense. If not, let me know and I will go back to studying the operators & maintenance manuals!

Dougster

 

[MadReferee]

JPM appears to have used the "power beyond port" of his stock FEL control valve to supply pressure to his added grapple valve. When I was initially looking at installing a separate grapple control valve, it appeared that teeing off the main pressure and dump lines made the most sense. What I would like to understand is what is the advantage of using the "power beyond port" of the FEL control valve for pressure rather than tapping directly into the main pressure supply line.

The power beyond port of the FEL valve IS the pressure out to the next valve in line. You cannot tee off of any pressure line as all valves must be in series in the open center circuit of your tractor. Typically, fluid flows from the pump to the FEL valve inlet, then out thru the FEL power beyond port to the next valve in line which is usually the 3pt or an aux valve for the remotes. The third line on the FEL valve is the return to tank line which may be teed with other return to tank lines.

I'd also like to know if an auxiliary spool can be added directly to the power beyond port of the FEL control valve such that no separate supply hose or separate mounting bracket would be necessary for the added grapple control valve

A seperate aux valve block with 1 or more spools can be added in series with the FEL valve by connecting the FEL valve's power beyond port to the inlet of the aux valve and the power beyond port of the aux valve to where ever the power beyond of the FEL valve went.

Some manufacturers make valve blocks than can be connected directly to each other. Some manufacturers make valve blocks whereby you can split them and add addtitional spools (ex. A Prince SV valve). Most likely your FEL valve does NOT support either of these two methods so a mounting scheme and additional hoses will be necessary to connect an additional aux valve.

If my understanding is correct, separate from all this is the question of using a set of rear auxiliary hydraulic ports (if available) and existing rear auxiliary port controls to run the new grapple... adding nothing but a couple of long quick connect hoses. This would be cheap and great... and I have seen other tractors with this exact arrangement... but I only have one set of rear hydraulic ports which are being used for the 509 backhoe.

Don't despair. If you already have a lever operated remote then you can purchase a V&M Add-A-Valve which plugs into the existing remote connectors and splits them using a switch mounted on the tractor. When the switch is in one position set A of the connectors is energized, when the switch is in the other direction set B of the connectors is energized. If your rear connections are simply just a power beyond connection for the backhoe that disables the 3pt when in use than you have no other option but adding a valve in series with the loader valve.

V&M Add-A-Valve

Obviously, I could disconnect the backhoe hydraulics and use that set of rear ports and the onboard control to run the grapple, but I prefer not to do that as I could find myself switching these hoses more often than desirable. Further, I'm told that the 509 disables (or requires disabling of) the onboard control such that a new grapple valve ($$$) would have to be added anyway if both were to remain connected (via tees) at the same time. If I need a new valve anyway, why not do it up right and not have to worry about switching hoses to run separate implements?

Well I guess you answered my comments above.

 

[Dougster]

Hi Mad! Thank you VERY much for the highly detailed explanation. I think I'm finally getting it!!! Sometimes I wish the manuals were clearer and/or the dealership closer!!! You guys are truly terrific!!!

If your rear connections are simply just a power beyond connection for the backhoe that disables the 3pt when in use than you have no other option but adding a valve in series with the loader valve.

This is the one part I still have trouble with. I do have a set of control levers for the rear but I was told that the levers are disabled when the 509 is connected. When they pointed that out, they implied it was some unique or special requirement of the 509 backhoe (i.e., as opposed to other lower flow requirement backhoes) and not some aspect or limitation of tractor design. Sounds like I really misunderstood that one bad.

Based on what you are saying, it sounds like it is exactly as you described... "just a power beyond connection for the backhoe that disables the 3pt when in use." This is a bit discourgaging as I thought it was an independent set of "remotes" I could use *WHILE* using the 3pt at the same time.

Even if true, I suppose that's not necessarily all that limiting unless I happened to own and wanted to use a bunch of skid loader attachments on the back end. As long as I've still got the PTO and 3pt hydraulics available, I should be fine for most rear tractor implements. But like you say, no matter how you slice it, I probably need a brand new control valve for the grapple.

Clearly, I've still got an awful lot to learn.

Dougster

 

[Keith_B]

Does the 4110 give you enough hydraulic power to run the 509 off the auxillary remotes? I know a lot of people are running the hoe off a separate PTO powered pump.

 

[MadReferee]

This is the one part I still have trouble with. I do have the lever control for the rear but I was told that the lever control is disabled when the 509 is connected. When they pointed that out, they implied it was some unique or special requirement of the 509 backhoe (i.e., as opposed to other lower flow requirement backhoes) and not some aspect or limitation of tractor design. Sounds like I really misunderstood that one bad.

Based on what you are saying, it sounds like it is exactly as you described... "just a power beyond connection for the backhoe that disables the 3pt when in use." This is a bit discourgaging as I thought it was an independent set of aux hydraulic ports I could use *WHILE* using the 3pt at the same time.

I assume you have 2 connectors exclusively for the backhoe and 2 connectors for the lever controlled rear remote. If you disconnect the backhoe do you you have to jumper the two backhoe specific connectors together? OR do you have to do something specific when the backhoe is connected or disconnected like move a lever or something?

I am just trying to determine how your backhoe is plumbed as there are several different ways of doing it and your options will vary depending on how the backhoe pb is plumbed.