Acura TL?

[bczoom]

Mrs. Zoom (and I) have had it with the European cars (Audi & Mercedes in particular) as it seems that you'll assume the equivalent to a monthly car payment just in maintenance.

I've always been a Honda fan (and Mrs. Zoom likes her Odyssey) and we're now looking at either a Honda or Acura to replace one or both of her Audi's.

We're looking to put a lot of miles on the car so I don't see any benefit of buying something particularly new. A dealer we have been chatting with found/bought a loaded (everything there is except nav) 2000 Acura TL with 23,000 miles on it and is asking $15,500 for it. I thought that was a bit high but after looking on kbb, edmunds, nadaguide and ebay, it appears that the price may be reasonable.

So (sorry about the big lead in), is an Acura that much better than a Honda? Does this seem reasonable? I haven't found an Accord EX with the amenities for that year for comparison but do they have one?

Thanks
Brian

PS. She doesn't want a big car so we're not looking at the RL. The Audi A8 was too big so we're looking at something in the A6 size which would be the TL or Accord.

 

[JimR]

We own a 1999 3.2TL. We bought it with under 50K on it. The car has 108k on it now. It runs like a dream and performs real well. We also have a 1998 Accord SE (my daughters college mobile). Both cars are loaded with leather, air, sunroof etc. The TL has the Nav in it. We love that option also. We also have owed a 1995 Accord EX and a 1986 Accord LXI. We are Honda nuts and always will be. They run forever and don't very often break down. That Acura with 23k on it is worth the money. Heck, the car isn't broken in yet in my opinion. The TL is not the same car as the Accord. It is bigger, rides nicer, more quiet and definetly more comfortable. The back seat in the TL is more comfortable than the Accord, Maxima, Camry, Audi and quite a few others. We know this for a fact as we test drove all the above mentioned cars before we bought our TL. We will in the future by another TL when and if this car ever dies. I just did the timing belt on it at 100K. It wasn't even worn. In my honest opinion, buy the car, you'll love it. We've had ours since 2001.

 

[MikePA]

The 2000 through mid 2003 TLs are notorious for transmission problems, so much so that Acura extended the transmission warranty to 7 years/100,000 miles. In mid-2003 the 5 speed auto was redesigned. The 1999 model (4 speed instead of 5 speed) is less prone but still covered by the extended warranty. By the way, about the only major option you can get on a TL is the navigation feature, so I'd wonder about your dealer characterizing the car as 'loaded (everything there is except nav)'. There's also a TLS model that has a higher hp engine, larger wheels and tires, some minor changes to the interior, etc.

Just like buying a tractor, the dealer is everything. Also, a 2000 model year with that low mileage can still be Acura Certified. Is it? Also ask if the transmission has been replaced. If so, how many times? Ask if the tranny has had the 'jet kit recall' installed. The jet kit is a fix to resolve one of the tranny problems. A dealer can tell you all the maintenance that's been performed on the car. With the VIN, you can register the car at the Owner's Link at acura.com and see all the recalls and whether they've been fixed on this car. There are people on the Acura forums that are on their 4th transmission. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif (No, these people were not abusing their cars--> acurazine.com) I don't mean to make this sound like the TL is a bad car. It's not (see below). People are much more likely to post on boards about the problems they have had, just a heads up about questions to ask the dealer.

My opinion....Buy the car from an Acura dealer you can trust and work with just in case you have a tranny problem.

P.S.
I have a 1999 with the navigation feature (I replaced the original hard drive model with the DVD version) and I love the car. I bought it last December as a Certified Acura Pre-Owned car from my local Acura dealer and have had no problems. As part of the Certification process, they replaced all 4 tires (with performance Toyo tires), replaced the battery and performed the 45,000 mile service (done early at 42,000 miles), etc. I've installed several aftermarket items (OEM spoiler, cold air intake, exhaust system) the car is that much fun. The car gets 22 mpg back and forth to work (mix of highway and city) and 30 mpg on the highway.

P.P.S.
The Acura TL is not the same as the Honda Accord V6.

 

[hazmat]

Here's a link that explains some of the background behind the transmission problems driveaccord tranny problems explained

Cliff note version - Americans wanted softer shifting trannys so Honda/Acura slowed down their shifting which wears out parts... /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Best protection is early and often tranny fluid changes.

While the TL and the Accord are not the exact same car, they do share "lineage" - they are built off the same platform. The acura offers more power, sportier handling (one of the mods that accord drivers do is to bolt on a TL anti-sway bar as it is thicker), and more luxury gadgets - memory seats, blue tooth handsfree cell phone (current model 2004+) etc.

I just bought a 2005 Accord EX 4 cyl 5speed Manual - 10,000 miles so far & only one problem - the evaperation canister (fuel emissions) was malfunctioning causing hard starts after a fill-up. I think it was an infant mortality failure - it was a problem from go. I'd have loved to get a TL, but $8,000 (difference between TL & 4cyl accord) buys a lot of gas /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif My wife has a 2004 Honda Pilot (5 speed auto tranny) with 31,000 miles - it had a recall for the cooling jet. Very happy with it except that it has a vibration at 70mph - the chassis is sensative to the slightest tire imbalance.

PS - I feel your pain on servicing the european cars - I had an 1990 MB 300E and a 2000 Volvo V40 - I was spending thousands each year on maintenance. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

 

[JimR]

Hazmat, The problem with your canister is related with overfilling the gas tank. The extra fuel flows into the canister destroying it.

Mike PA, I need to check out the Tranny issue on the newer 5 speed automatics. That is the first that I heard of this. My friend also has a 2001 3.2TL with close to 100K on it with no tranny problems so far. We are thinking of buying another used TL in the future. The TL "S" is a hot machine. That car really moves out for a luxury car. We took one out for a test drive last year to see what the difference was between our TL and the "S" version.

 

[hazmat]

<font color="blue">Hazmat, The problem with your canister is related with overfilling the gas tank. The extra fuel flows into the canister destroying it. </font>

I've heard that. I don't ever "top off" the tank - when the pump clicks off I'm done. Since it was replaced, no problemos.

 

[MikePA]

<font color="blue"> Best protection is early and often tranny fluid changes. </font>
No offense hazmat, but according to the people on the Acura forums, this doesn't help. Neither does a tranny cooler. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif Some trannys die, some don't.

JimR - Information on the Acura forums indicate the tranny problem continued through the mid-2003 model. The announcement from Acura listed 2003 cars up to a certain VIN, not sure what the number is. A dealer would know. There are people on the forums who've gone well over 100,000 miles on the OEM transmission while others have gone through multiple ones. It doesn't seem to be related to how they drive or tranny maintenance.

 

[JimR]

Maybe they are monday and friday built transmissions. Thanks for the info. I guess our next Acura will be 2003 late model and up. I don't like the new downsized 2005 version.

 

[bczoom]

Thanks for all the great info guys.

That tranny issue is making me a bit nervous. I don't want to get into replacing trannys. If I did, I'd just keep my Audi(s). /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif The vehicle is low miles but quickly approaching the 7 year mark for the extended warrantee.

I just sent an e-mail to the dealer inquiring about the vehicle service history and what's been done to the tranny in particular. Also checking on whether it qualifies as a certified pre-owned.

Mike, the "loaded" was probably more my words. I didn't know what trim levels there were in 2000 but saw it had everything (except the nav).

It is for Mrs. Zoom (who actually drives more aggressively than I do) but now wonder if the Accord may be a better choice.

Brian

 

[hazmat]

The accord suffers from the same tranny woes. Unless you get the manual trans... There is some anecdotal evidence that the 4 banger isn't as hard on the tranny as the 6 cyl.