A SOS tranny rebuilder....

[Kaliburz]

Any one hear anything about this place?

Arthurs Tractors -- Ford Tractor Restoration

Not sure how long the website has been up, I know I didn't run across it last year Googling SOS trannies....

Figure I'd ask about it....

 

[Soundguy]

I've bought a few things from him.. I see he advertises in many ford specific publications. Can't tell you about his sos work as I don't have any SOS trannied tractors...

soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

Forgot to add.. if you can still get in ouch with Ralph alexander ( he used to advertise in many old tractor magazines ).. you might ask him about AT/SOS trannies see if he knows anything about their tranny work.

Gues you could also call AT and ask for a person or two's contact info that they have done SOS work on..??

Soundguy

 

[Kaliburz]

Thanks Soundguy. Figured I'd ask here..... see if anyone has heard of them.

I might shoot an email off.... just for the sake of asking info. I'm sure they've handled SOS's out of grape harvesters similar (if not identical) to mine. They are located in PA, and I know the Tri state area was where these old beasts were manufactured. I'm wondering if they 'repair' worn input shafts like the local guy does or have a stash..... (curious)

Granted, I did get my old SOS rebuilt (sitting in the barn) by the same folks I bought the 'rebuilt' tranny that is in the machine right now. The one in it runs perfect.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Do you have a grape harvester or are you just referring to them? The only ones I can think of that might have SOS trannies would have been the Chisholm Ryders and if memory serves me right they were made in Niagra Falls, NY. There use to be a lot of them around here but now Korvan and Gregorie are replacing them on farms. All the old harvesters are either being sold to small farms or parked in the barn as a backup. My friend kept his to work the double curtains so he didn't have to adjust the Korvan depending on where he is picking.

If you do own a grape harvester, where are you located and do you own a vineyard or do you just collect different machines.

I had a Ford 4000 with the SOS tranny and I enjoyed it. The tractor needed a ton of work though to get up to working condition and I was not in the mood to sink that much into it so I traded it for the TN. It started up on the first turn of the engine every time and the tranny never gave me any trouble. But the hydraulics left a lot to be desired.

If you do need a SOS tranny rebuilt do make sure you talk to a few recent customers of the shop you take it to.

 

[Kaliburz]

Robert_in_NY,

I have a Chisholm Ryder and pick grapes (not much, prob. 150 acres total- I do custom harvesting too). It's actually one of the first ones brought to Washington state, from what I've been told. I'm guessing it was one of the first 5 machines here. It's a 1968/1969 model year based on the SOS ID numbers. And it's been picking grapes ever since then..... I'm the 3rd owner- well 4th if you count the guy the original owner had to repo it from.

And her top end has been completely rebuilt. I posted here last year on the saga of changing an engine up top. The old 3000 diesel was worn, compression was WAY below spec- and upon inspection of the engine, a wrist pin had come loose also- left a nice scratch in the bore (or maybe in the past and someone just let it go- not sure). Any how, she has a Ford/NH 4630 engine in it right now (so should be about 50-55HP at the PTO) and a fresh rebuilt SOS (the old one had input shaft wear and it turns out, the PTO clutches were going bad- they found out when they took her apart).

The place I got the tranny rebuilt has a great reputation. The gentleman that owns/runs the place was a former Ford tech (mechanic) back in the early 1970's. As he says, he was sent to school by Ford to work on the Select-O-Speeds. Here's his website: Home
They 'always' have a SOS tranny instock....for those times during harvest when a picker goes TU. Last year, I ended up buying their tranny before the season started (so they were w/out). The machine came w/ a spare (suppose to have been rebuilt), but after getting it install w/ the new engine.... somethign went wrong. Turns out someone forgot a small part in the bellhousing, so that's why the small oil line came out...forgot the retainer of all things! The other thing was, the PTO clutches on that spare went were bad. Who ever fixed it before only looked at what was broken...didn't inspect the whole tranny.

Ask your friend if he's done any business with DW's Motor Machine- Located in Grandview, WA. From what I've heard, people from all over the country seem to call on him for parts.

Oh, also, would you mind asking your friend if he's ever had any lower axle issue with his Chisholm Ryder. From what I have heard, some machines always have an issue w/ breaking axles, while others have not. I broke my first this year... but the last owner, I know of it breaking at least 2 other times (once while they were harvesting at my place a few years back). I'm just wondering what folks in your area are doing for parts or if there is anyone else besides DW selling parts (lower/upper axles I'm wondering). Those axles are all custom built now..... Better to have lots of options.

Too bad no one from California frequents this section. I'm wondering if anyone does stuff for these old beasts there......

(I know of two other Chisholm Ryders for sale here....one has the International Hydro tractor on top and the other is a Ford unit. But overall, there are TONS of Chisholms here still. Some are still being brought up from California to replace worn out machines- I say abused machines.)

 

[Robert_in_NY]

I will ask but I am fairly certain the dealers here stock a lot of parts for these old machines since there were so many at one time. Now the Korvans are taking over and if I recall I think they are coming from your way. Funny how things turn around.

If I recall right my friends old machine has the Ford motor for a power unit but not like yours. It is just the motor mounted in a cage. My other neighbor use to have one with the Ford mounted on top like yours but that machine had seen better days I think he still has it but I don't talk with him very often. The last International mounted unit that I knew of was traded in on a Korvan but it might be in the Westfield area of WNY somewhere.

I like these old Chisholm's but if you ever get a chance to run a Korvan it is like night and day. My daughter rode along this year and was scared a little as she is only 3 and I had her stand at the front glass of the cab (it leans out) and tried to get her to lean forward to see the grapes go under the machine. She lost her nerve so she sat back down.

I at one time tried to find out how many different brands of grape harvesters were made and back in the 70's there were a lot of different brands. Over here we have Mecca, Pic-Ryte, Chisholm Ryder, Braud, Gregorie and Korvan now. There might be one or two brands I have forgot but in Michigan there were quite a few different brands then what we had here.

Anyway, I will ask about the Chishoms in this area and see if I can help you with your questions any. Have fun.

 

[Kaliburz]

I did some online searching and the Pic-Ryte seems to pop up as a harvester made here in WA state. Wish I could get a picture to pull up, but the website didn't load right.

I know of two models of Chisholm Ryders. One was the original model that had a tractor mounted on top and had chains driving the wheels (either a Ford or an International). The second model was called the 800 and it had an engine mounted on the left side right over the rear wheel. It was 100% hydrostatic drive. I was told that originally, the diesel they put was an air cooled Dutz (spelling) engine. It's entirely possible that when the engine died, they put a Ford in (or any other diesel they could muster in there). From the few I've seen, they are the cat's meow and I'd love to get one.

There was another harvester I know of, but I'm not sure what the name is. Another farmer up the road has one and it was the oddest thing I've ever seen. It is another local built machine (from the early 70's I think)- the front axle 'spindle' is the single front axle unit from a large John Deere tractor!

Oh, I'm sure you also have Upright grape harvesters. They were either blue and yellow or all yellow in color. Can't miss those..... discharge belt is in the VERY front.

Funny thing about the Korvans. Some time ago, when I was in college (I'm a young pup), one of the classes I took actually toured the Korvan factory in 1998 (or might have been fall of 97...can't recall which). Any how, I was able to see their prototype harvester and I can tell you that their early ones were no where like the one they had. Korvan builds blueberry, raspberry, etc harvesters. Their main picking head is similar to those hairbrushes that are cylindercal in shape and has bristles all the way around them. The 'head' vibrates up and down to pick the blueberrys. Any how, the first prototype or two used this head. I looked at it and shook my head, told a few class mates they were trying to redo the wheel.....and that would NEVER work. And what did they end up with...a similar system that was designed back in the 1960s. I'd love a Korvan.... but I don't have enough acerage to justify something that expensive.... I'm good at keeping equipment running. It maybe old, but it's nothing that can't be kept going....

I uploaded a pic of my old beast. The other pic is what the input shaft looked like after we got the engine out last year. This might be hard to believe, but the original owner's grandson and I know each other and we calculated that old girl probably has somewhere between 15,000-20,000 hours on it. Yes, THOUSANDs. His late grandfather told him it use to run w/ two crews- about 20 hours a day all season in the early years. Only time it was turned off was to fuel it and to change the engine oil weekly.

(Another farmer I know wants to sell an IH powered Chisholm....retiring. Wants $4K for it....another one wants to sell their for powered one...but not sure what they want for it.)

If ya can ask, see if anyone knows of a Chisholm Ryder grape harvester "junk yard". I wouldn't mind picking up an extra item or two. (There's prob. a few in CA, but since they originated in the NY, maybe there might be some there....)

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Here is a pic of the International version of the C-R. I am also adding a pic of the Gregorie G120sw for fun. If I find my pics of the other harvesters I will post them for you. I have them as they are my friends machines but I can't find them in this maze of about 15k digitial pictures

I have seen the other Korvan harvesters on their website. There are a lot of amazing harvesters out there and Oxbo seems to be trying to buy them all up. There is a local farmer who builds onion harvesters up north of here using the same JD harvester cabs as Korvan. I think Oxbo bought Korvan also or are partners with them as my friends Korvan has Oxbo on it also.

Most of the farmers who have grape harvesters that are no longer useful just park them in the weeds behind their barns in case they have a project in the future. I have never seen a grape harvester junkyard here in NY or even heard of one but when I talk to my friends I will ask them about it.

Oh yeah, here is a pic of my friends Korvan harvesting our small vineyard we just aquired. This vineyard has been neglected for a lot of years as the farmer tried to squeak every last dime out of it he could. The worse part is trying to get the weeds under control as I don't ever recall the weeds being sprayed before. Hopefully this year we can keep the weeds down now that we can get an early start on the farm. Last year it seemed like we were running behind from the get go (well, actually we were because the deal wasn't finalized until late).

 

[Kaliburz]

Nice pics!

Mainly the newer machines are being bought by wineries around here. Most of the time, you have to be REALLY big or have LOTS of tons to pick before a small guy gets a machine...... Recently, a 98 Korvan went up for sale here, along w/ the entire harvesting operation. All equipment was new as of 98 (except the semi trailers).

 

[Robert_in_NY]

The farmer who owns the Gregorie has around 400 acres that he farms, the Korvan owner has a couple hundred acres of grapes. But he has a lot of land and as he sells off a chunk he invest it instead of paying a lot of tax. Another farmer is parteners with another farmer and they harvest together. They have around 300 acres of grapes combined and demoed a NH/Braud before buying a Gregorie. The farmer who had the Int. CR and traded for the Korvan has around 350 acres. All of them mainly raise Concords with some wine varieties recently planted. The wineries here usually buy their juice from my friends pressing plant. The bigger wineries are out towards the Finger Lakes and I think a lot of them press their own grapes as a lot of wine varieties get trucked to the Finger Lake region of NY. I know my friend who has the pressing plant trucks juices all over the US and is constantly expanding.

The my friend who owns the Korvan just bought two Gondola's and 6 20' boxes for his flatbeds. Now two tender operators can keep up with the Korvan and have time to check the bin on the truck, move semi's around or just take a break. The Gondolas and bins have really sped things up for harvesting. Plus the operators are in cab tractors now instead of open stations so they are more comfortable and out of the weather. The bad side is only one of the plants here is set up to accept the 20' bins but it is one of the largest plants.

I really do wish I can find my other pictures but they must be on a disc at my house in town. Hopefully Monday I can stop and look for the disc as it is bothering me.

 

[Kaliburz]

I bought the operation out early last year. Came w/ the CR harvester, 2 Farm Hand 3-4 ton grape gondolas, 2 semi trucks & trailers and 4 bulk bins (old fiberglass- 8 ton cap.). Most of the equipment is older then me....

From the history of the equipment, the fiberglass tanks and trailers supposable came from 'back east'. I'm guessing the Tri-state area. Most everyone here runs bulk tanks. There are a few that still use wooden bins w/ plastic liners. Some even had stainless steel bins made!

Here's a link of what most folks have around here:
http://www.bluelinemfg.com/internet 2/internet.JPG

That is a 10 ton tank.

This year, I doubled up my trailer and was hauling about 29-30ton each night. They're small trailers, only 27 feet long. With the converter I bought, it's about 63 feet and I have enough axles to be legal to 105,500....

Oh, by the way, I'm a Welch grower- Concord and Niagara grapes. I'm about 40 min away from the local Welch plant in WA.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Those are the type of bins my friend just changed to. However, the local plants are not set up for them. The Welch plant is so depending on where the loads are going is which setup they run. Hopefully the other plants will update their receiving areas.

I don't think you are much younger then I am as I am only 29 and these guys on here think I am a younging still

What did you do to double up your trailers? Did you buy a dollie to pull tandem?

Our contract is with Cliffstar which is a juice company. We also have Carriage House here which is a food processing plant and they make juice, jams and jellies. Welch use to be real big in Westfield but with the other grape growing regions getting bigger they scaled back here some. They have a large plant in PA still that takes a lot of the grapes grown here. The main varieties are Concord with Niagara a distant second. We are looking to buy some more vineyards and depending how much we want to spend are able to buy around 200 acres from a farmer wanting to retire. We have to look the vineyards over better but they have not been taken care of the last few years and need a lot of work. Last year they only managed 2 ton to the acre because they won't spend the time and money to take care of them properly. We averaged 5.5 ton and all we did was fertilize and spray as we didn't have the time to trim the grapes with as late as it was when the deal was finalized. Our sugar was 16.76 so we were rather happy with that vineyard considering the shape it was in.

There is a custom harverster who runs 2 pull behind Korvans and 3-4 Gondolas. He is usually quite busy. A lot of the farmers who have their own harvesters will take on small side jobs if they can schedule things into their schedule.

Right now all I have for grapes is our tractors, weed sprayer, crop sprayer and our brush chopper. On one hand it is nice to not have a lot of other equipment to take care of but if we continue expanding then it will make more sense to add more equipment.

 

[Kaliburz]

Oh heck.... I am OLDER! Not by much..... 31

There are a few places for sale here. One place we picked is 80 acres grapes (about 100 in land total). All contracted with Welch & for sale for $480,000- including the contract and a small house- old house, built 1920. No equipment included, just the land. Half his place is good production, the other half is ...... non existant (it's in drip irrigation and wasn't watered much). The low section brings his average down, but we ended up picking a truck load (29 tons) out of 10-12 rows (1/4 mile long rows, 10 foot spacings) in one section. Another place is about 90 acres land, 70 acres or so in grapes- also Welch contract, going for 400,000 (or was it 500,000). Newer plantings. I don't recall the running average for tonnage.

Yes, I picked up converter dollie. (I poured through the state handbook for combinations, weights, bridge law, etc.) Looks like it was a 'home grown' unit. Tandem axle, sliding 5th wheel and adjustable tung. Looks like it started life out as the sliding axle assembly off of a refer. trailer. Most folks run 22ton between 2 or 3 tanks, depending on size on a min. 40 footer trailer. Some push the 30-32 ton with a 40ft and 24ft combo. I kind of love having two small trailers since I can take corners really easy.

I recognize the Cliffstar name. One of the Welch/National Grape newsletter showed what the cash market price for grapes were this year in your area compared to last year and here out west. Its nice to have a few places buying grapes. Here, there isn't that many "major" players. Most require contract (Smuckers for example.) If I recall, your region was over $200 a ton while here, it was $180-190

Mind if I ask how much custom harvesters charge per ton in your area? Here, they're between $35-40 per ton (with about a 4-5 ton min.- after that it goes to the per acre charge.) What was the diesel prices for you folks this year? Off road was running $2.50 I think when I bought 600gal late spring. On road was between $2.80-3.24 this year.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

I don't know what the custom rates are around here. My friend harvest for me and he has never gave me a bill, of course we do a lot of work for him and don't give him a bill either so I think he is trying to teach us a lesson

When we recently priced off road fuel it was around $2.29 a gallon about 2 months ago. I think on road diesel is about $3.60/gallon now. We were shocked at the off road price when we were quoted it and filled one of our tanks. We were going to have the second tank filled but were trying to decide about moving it first and then I got hurt and we haven't thought about it until now. I don't know how much fuel I am going to use this year.

The farm land I mentioned we were told they want to start out at $2500/acre and go from there. For the shape of the vineyard and the type of ground it is not worth more then $1500/acre as it will require a lot to bring it up and with fertilizer prices constantly going up as well as fuel the worse the vineyard is the more it matters. Our neighbor sold his vineyard off that was around 100 acres on good ground for over $3000/acre. They averaged 5-8 ton per acre this year as the low spots had higher averages then the high spots. We did not have much rain at all this year and it hurt most of the crops. Normally they would have averaged 8-12 ton on that field. Of course now a lot of people are buying vineyards and ripping the grapes out to put houses in so the prices may go up soon. Out go the grapes, in goes the double wide :-/

Oh yeah, we get more money for out grapes because they are better then yours ;-)

 

[Robert_in_NY]

I finally found an article I wrote and posted pictures to online and while you have to be a member of the magazine to read the article I can steal my own pictures back

The pictures are small as Jay downsized them for the article but they are of my friends Pic-Ryte. The one with the Pic-Ryte badge is another friends cab version that he bought new in 2002.

If I recall correctly, I was told that Pic-Ryte bought Chysolm Ryder which was the basis for their harvesters. This may not be true though as I am only trying to recall what I have been told by another individual.

I also asked my friend about CR junkyards and he said he has never heard of one. He doesn't even think there are very many CR's parked behind any barns anymore as people have been buying them up and fixing them all up to put back into service since new machines cost around $250k.

As for parts he didn't really say there was any one particular place to get them but he did think you shouldn't have any trouble getting parts where you are because there were a lot of CR's shipped over there so someone local should be supplying parts.

As for the axle problems he said they all had issues with the axle but it was easy to repair so he didn't even seem bothered by it.

 

[Kaliburz]

Thanks for the pics and the info! That PR kind of looks like a CR 800. If the engine is slug on the left side, right above the rear tire, then I'm sure it's practically the same. Is this the article you wrote:
novgrape

Popped up when Googleing Pic-Ryte. OH, looks like Pic-Ryte was built locally. Too bad they went TU and closed shop. I suppose if a Pic-Ryte became available or a Chisolm-Ryder 800, either would be nice.

Here is a pic of a CR800, but I'm sure you have plenty around there, but just incase....
Used Harvesters

Oh, this web page says that CR was bought by them.....
McConnell - Marc Tractor Series

I'm sure that if the Pic-Ryte is based on a prototype CR made, it what I see would be the next logical step in 'evolution' of the design.

Yes, there are a lot of CR's here. So, the rear axle snapping off is a common issue. So far, the only solution is one place who has a replacement made and sells for $1500 each.

I'm wondering if anyone in your area makes replacement axle stubs. Mainly the lower axle where the rear tire bolts to. Or has found a way to 'upgrade' to something heavier so they don't snap.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

That is my article, it was back when I was learning a lot still and my friend asked me to write an article about grape harvesting for his website. Gary Burmaster is building a nice winery and my father is doing the finish work inside right now (I would be helping except for this whole broke back thing ). He is the one who told me about the CR and Pic-Ryte connection.

My one friend has an CR800 and the Gregorie I pictured that is owned by another friend was bought from the dealer you posted the CR800's picture from.

I don't know what happened to Pic-Ryte as the picture in the article that shows the beaters is from a new Pic-Ryte that was bought in 2002 or 2003 as I can't remember but it was a new machine. Now all I see are Korvans and Gregories being bought here.

I do not know of anyone making any upgrade kits for the rear axle or anything of that nature. The guys just make due if something happens.

I am surprised my article came up like that as you were suppose to be a member in order to access articles. Maybe Jay was so impressed with my amazing writing and pictures he decided to open that article up for everyone to see in hopes of getting more members to sign up

 

[Kaliburz]

Well, I guess I'll ask the harvester repair guy I usually go to about Pic-Ryte. It seems odd that I haven't seen any around here... unless people painted them Chisholm-Ryder blue.

As I said, I'm gonna keep this old beast of mine going for as long as I can. And since the 'tractor portion' is pretty much 'new', I'm sure the rest of her can be brought up to snuff.

But you are right, with price of 'new' harvesters starting at $150,000 (well, Korvan was suppose to start in that range ten years ago), the old machines seem very tempting for someone to rebuild. Especially if they can do the work themselves.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

You too