a most unpleasant one

[arrow]

As others have experienced within our forum family, yesterday my seat time involved digging a grave for our pet boxer of almost 13 years. My wife being in the veternary field, actually delivered this litter. Unbeknowest to her at that time, she then received one of the pups 8 weeks later as a Christmas present. Well, I guess she imprinted herself on this litter as a result of her involvement at their birth and Bubba would literally would not leave her side for his entire life. This of course is making this grieving a bit more difficult.
I'm not hearing about dogs living much beyond 13 or 14 years and none of ours have gone beyond that point. They all died of cancerous tumors of one form or another. I, maybe erroneousely, look at the environmental as well as the genetic aspects of what could be causing this. No one knows how long a dog is supposed to live and there have been stories of dogs living beyond 25 years but my wife states that she sees the same thing in her field. Many lymphomas and cancers that can be pointed to genetics or maybe there's something else such as what we're feeding them. Bubba was on a food with no animal by products or digestive wastes. It was not a vegetarian type food as there was chicken broth involved and it was expensive stuff. Boxers have about an 8-10 year life span. Bubba exceeded that so I am at a loss a to causitive factors. I would like to put our other dog on a vege diet and see what happens. Don't know if anyone else is experiencing prolonged life of their dogs with this tactic but it is an interesting topic for me.Would love to get 20-25 years out of our 4 legged buddies if I could change anything that would aid in that possibility.

 

[shvl73]

I'm sorry to hear of your loss.
20+ years is alot to ask of a dog, espescially a medium sized breed, I think. Our eldest Dalmation recently passed at 17. All our dogs are on raw diet and all very healthy. Even so, our Rotty/Doberman cross passed last fall at 13. The Dal was very large for his breed, though not overweight at all, the Rotty mix was just a large frame breed.

 

[QRTRHRS]

arrow, I too offer my sympathies over the loss of your pet. Six of the many dogs that I have owned were boxers as well as placing a number of them in homes. I have not had one in over ten years but as I recall most only made it to about ten. I was watching a show on Animal Planet one day highlighting different breeds. The boxer supposedly has the dubious distinction of being the most cancer prone breed of all.

For various maladies, we have our three purebred dogs on the IAMS vet formulas which is very expensive. The fourth, a mutt, is one of the Purina dry foods.

 

[Mike_Kanzer]

Arrow-
I am very sorry to hear about your loss. I have the graves of three of my dogs on my property. It is a very hard thing to get over after having them as faithful companions for so long. I wonder if by selective breeding of different traits for each of the breeds, if we haven't breed in genetic traits predisposing to cancers. Clearly that has happpened with other things like hip dysplasias, congenital deafness and other things in dogs. On the other hand, mixed breeds don't seem to be any less susceptible to cancers. My wife and I also wondered if pesticide collars for ticks and fleas could be carcinogenic. The pain of losing a pet gets better over time and eventually pleasant memories remain. Hang in there - Mike

 

[thunderworks]

I've had dogs all of my life, and some have died from cancer. One of my closest friends is a Vet. She agrees with me that the incidence of cancer is on the rise. I think that the dog food industry is largely unregulated and that the food sources for the dog food manufacturers are probably laden with herbicides and pesticides that preclude their use in human food.

Very sorry about the loss of your companion and friend. It's always hard.

 

[Tig]

Sorry for your loss Arrow. Loosing a canine companion is tough, even for an adult.

 

[Thomas]

Sorry for the loss of your family member...cherish the fond memories.

<_______> R.I.P.

 

[Charlton John]

Sorry to hear about your loss, they sure do become part of the family.

 

[arrow]

Thanks every one for your thoughts. Many true things were stated including some breeders breeding anything for the buck even if it includes a poor cancer thwarting genetic line. Age certainly remains as one of the leading causes of cancer in dogs as well as humans. Don't know if it has to be that way however. A disease that is thwarted by our immune systems for most of our lives, seems to get the upper hand as we or our 4 legged friends progresses in age. I wonder what dismantles our immune systems for cancer to take hold. Its a question for better minds than I have. Hope it gets answered relatively soon or at least in my life time. It would be a cool thing to have a twenty or thirty year old dog or a 120 year old human (but probably not as good as the dog living longer)

 

[woodlandfarms]

We have boxers as well, a fantastic animal. Ours are all mutted a bit (a mix of lab). We lost one and one was put to sleep, both within the last year. I cried like a baby on both. But they both had a great life, and the fact they were rescues made it all that much better. The new pups are rescue boxer mixes as well. Full of energy, tearing everything up, but wonderful animals.

Boxers are notorious for cancer. A dogs life is generally predicated on its weight / size. I have a friend with a 22 year old toy poodle. I have a friend who just lost his 6 year old great dane. 12 years is about the most you can get from a 60lb dog. But those can be a great 12 years.

I hope you guys find a replacement very soon. Lots of animals looking for a good home, especially with so many people loosing their houses.

 

[hunterridgefarm]

I've had dogs all of my life, and some have died from cancer. One of my closest friends is a Vet. She agrees with me that the incidence of cancer is on the rise. I think that the dog food industry is largely unregulated and that the food sources for the dog food manufacturers are probably laden with herbicides and pesticides that preclude their use in human food.

Very sorry about the loss of your companion and friend. It's always hard.

Arrow, I too am sorry to hear about your loss. It is amazing how close you can get to an animal. I had lads all my life and was always close to them. Now I have a Jack Russel that stays in the house and I really will hate to see the day when he is no longer with us.

thunderworks,
My Jack Russel looks identical to the one in your avatar.

 

[kthompson]

Arrow sorry about your Bubba, our Bubba was a Golden Retriever which was taken by cancer also. Not sure who mentioned the show on the Animal Planet but great shows on different breeds. Think the first show covered Golden Retriever and German Shepard two we had and had to think how accurate they were. Amazing to the health issues they bring up on those size breeds. Boy in my growing up dogs were not feed bought food and very little chemicals used on them (none in their food for much of it we raised) and 10 year old dog? Not hardly. If any of those mutts or hounds or bulldog lived past 5 I sure don't remember it. Snake bites, accidents and such. I am not too sure I really would want a dog if I thought it would live 25 years. They are too much of a family member to not worry about when I could not take care of them. There does come a point in life when such becomes important as we grow older ourself.

I read something a while back I wish I could quote and my telling it may not be PC correct here: but it related how a dog was one of the best examples of how God loves us regardless of how we treat him. I like the quote that also goes: I want to be the man my dog thinks I am.

 

[scgargoyle]

Sorry to hear about Bubba's passing. Our pets are family members, and it's always rough to lose one, but I think it's worth it for the good times and companionship you get. Better to have loved and lost, than not loved at all, as they say.

It's true that are pets are getting a lot more cancer and other formerly rare diseases, and I think we should look at it as the canary in the coal mine. If the environment is shortening their lives, well, we live in the same environment! I also wonder about things like flea repellents being harmful. My mother raises Flat-coated Retrievers, and the breed has become very prone to cancer. Many of them pass within 5 years. Nobody knows why.

 

[arrow]

Sorry to hear about Bubba's passing. Our pets are family members, and it's always rough to lose one, but I think it's worth it for the good times and companionship you get. Better to have loved and lost, than not loved at all, as they say.

It's true that are pets are getting a lot more cancer and other formerly rare diseases, and I think we should look at it as the canary in the coal mine. If the environment is shortening their lives, well, we live in the same environment! I also wonder about things like flea repellents being harmful. My mother raises Flat-coated Retrievers, and the breed has become very prone to cancer. Many of them pass within 5 years. Nobody knows why.

I think you are right in thinking that how long a pet lives at your house may be an indication of how the rest of the household is going to do barring any overt genetic family traits. As most probably know, they changed up the dog age comparison. The first 2 years of a dogs life are only given 4 years apiece and then the seven years thing kicks in as I recall. Not a single dog lived past 14 at my house. That would make them 92 in human years and Bubba was about 83. None of them used flea collars but every one of them was on heart worm meds or they would not have lasted as long as they did. Cancer in my opinion is an unnatural disease. I'm not sure we or any other living thing would get it if we were not living in such a poisoned world. My remaining boxer has a bad heart. He was not supposed to live past 6 months. That was 3 years ago. He is on Atenalol and baby aspirin but I'd like to see how he does with broccoli extract. The wife states his heart will kill him first but I'd still like to give this supplement to him just in case he begins beating his odds even more. Now they say he will not live past 5. If he reaches that I wonder what they'll say. Again thanks to all for the words of encouragement. Not much in life gets me to tearing up especially when I'm working the tractor. Creating the burial place with the fel always does however.

 

[whistlepig]

Sorry to hear of your loss. The larger dogs seem to have a shorter life span. We have had Doberman's for over thirty five years now. We have tried everything. Proper diet, supplements, exercise, (my wife takes the Dobies on a two mile run with the ATV every day). Nothing seems to help prolong their age. Most of ours have passed away around ten years of age. We do love our dogs. I have buried several. I know of no other chore so sad.

 

[arrow]

Sorry to hear of your loss. The larger dogs seem to have a shorter life span. We have had Doberman's for over thirty five years now. We have tried everything. Proper diet, supplements, exercise, (my wife takes the Dobies on a two mile run with the ATV every day). Nothing seems to help prolong their age. Most of ours have passed away around ten years of age. We do love our dogs. I have buried several. I know of no other chore so sad.

Of course I'm reading upon this stuff now. Interested to hear what diets you tried. One vet faction sems to think it is the amount of carbs in a K9's diet that gives them cancer with grains and corn being major culprits. They think a raw meat diet with celery, broccoli and carrots is what you should feed a dog and no more veges per feeding than they would find in the intestinal tract of grazing animals which is totally beyond me on how that gets figured out. That might take care of the food end but the other stuff such as heart worm meds come into play. My wife states few dogs in the N.E. survive more than 6-7 years w/out heart worm meds. We're caught between a rock and a hard place so far.

 

[E_Sanborn]

... for our pet boxer of almost 13 years..

I appreciate your burden. My beloved Boxer, 'Muggsy', my companion growing up, lived for 13 years. He died of cancerous growths on the skin.

This was in Africa, where I lived with my parents, in a very simple life. Muggsy ate a hand-made mix of breads and local meats all his life, and never saw any processed foods. I know it's anecdotal, but take some comfort that there wasn't anything you should have done differently with his diet. I understood at the time that this was a fairly common cause of death for this breed, and that 13 was on the upper end of the scale of lifespan for a dog of 80lb.

 

[arrow]

Muggsy lived a very long time for such a large boxer. It sounds he died of mast cell tumors which are rampart in boxers. These grow just under the skin. My boxer had 5 of these removed, the last being about 2 years ago. My wife states she sees many problems with the raw meat and vege diet some of her clients put their dogs on. Much has to do with bacteria. I think processed foods that have simple carbs such as sugars, potatoes, corn etc, do a job on a canine in much the same way they do to us so in my mind, it may be wise for our pals to avoid dog foods with this kind of stuff. . This takes some experimentation. As I stated before, I do not see cancer as a "natural" death factor what so ever. I could be wrong of course, but I think this is one disease that is induced and I am really surprised that we are not told of various findings of these long term experiments. What's it going on close to 40 years since the "war on cancer" commenced? Maybe there's too much money in it not to be informed.

Kthompson, If there was ever a more desirable wish of "being the man my dog thinks I am" , I wouldn't know what it may be. That quote kind of says it all.

 

[BrentD]

I sometimes wonder if maybe cancer is just a natural self-destruct mechanism built into every living thing. Consider prostate cancer... My dad had surgery for that about 3 years ago. At the time his doctor told him that he was convinced that if a man lives long enough he will eventually develop prostate cancer.

I know there are a lot of natural and man-made triggers that can increase cancer risks, but I think cancer is in all of our genes. The more times our cells divide the more likely it is that the DNA in a cell will be corrupted. All it takes is for the right section of the DNA to be changed and then it's like a computer running a program than jumps into an infinite loop.

Anyway, just some random thoughts. My condolences on the loss of your pet. I've lost several pets over the years and it never seems to get any easier.

 

[tatra805]

Sorry for your loss. Wish you a lot of strenght.

Seen my share of cancer with both the 4 and 2 legged family members.
Never easy.

Regarding dog food and what is best i am neutral. Our first newfoundland dog was given all the best and additives etc etc. He died at 8 from a heart attack. I blame a very intensive showring carreer being the cause.

Our next and my parents current newfoundland dogs are eating a regular dry food with some pasta and raw meat portions and their last females were resp 14 and 15 when they died.

My bullmastiff died at 26 months because of a tumor on his thymus. We never knew just found him sleeping on his carpet. My hardest moment till now handing him over to the state veterinar for autopsy (we suspected poisoning) knowing he would never be buried at his home.

The GF has a small obsession about animal food and we are actually looking into the BARF system ourselves at the moment. (raw feeding yada yada)

Having read some things about it i would once again come to my typical conclusion that common sense finds a middle way. (and the fact that a pro in anything has no time to write books or websites so you are fully allowed to question the writers of those )

I go with the natural habitat thing. I am sure feeding a rabit raw meat will kill it in short time as much as i believe a dog is not to be fed hay.

I also believe that individuals are different and therefore have different needs. We are not feeding our 3 dogs the same. A Fox Terrier (small hunting), Italian Spinon (pointer) and a English Mastiff (sleeping,.. euh guarding dog) are quite different.

Good luck with the search and let your guts decide when it all comes to a endless discussion. Been there done that. Dogs happy.