8 year old hurt

[mboulais]

I totally agree with runner about the reverse thing. That safety device would be gone the second time I used that mower too. This was probably added due to someone backing over their kid with a lawn mower. Having the button, doesn't force you to look behind you, it only forces you to push the button. The whole point of HST is to allow for quick direction changes, the switch kind of defeats that.

As far as other "safety" items:

It's not that I don't like ROPS, I just don't think they are the be-all, end-all of tractor safety. ROPS have away of catching on overhead obstructions and can in fact roll over a tractor becuase of it. I have caught tree branches. I know a guy at work that took the ROPS off his zero turn mower after a couple near misses in the first two times out with it. I am not removing mine, I like it for the lights mounted above my head. Now that I have made room for the tractor in the barn, I could put it up. It has been down since I stored the tractor in the garage while installing the borrowed backhoe this spring. I am not in a hurry to put it up, but I'm not taking it off either.

Operator presence switches wouldn't help in most cases where the tractor is moving vs during dismounting. Say I have a stroke 20 yrs from now while mowing the back forty on the 200 acre ranch I buy after winning the lottery. I am mowing at 5mph with a 7' bushhog and fall off the seat forward and to the side. By time the tractor stops I will be somewhere between the rear wheel and the mower with R4 tracks across my backside. That may not be an argument for removing them, but it shoots holes in your theory that you can't live without it. My tractor doesn't have one, but I would of removed it if it did. I occasionally lean forward to better see whats going by under the tractor while bush hogging or to better see what I am doing when moving suspended loads with the bucket.

As far as seatbelts go, I am still mad that I am required to wear them in my vehicle by law. I am up and down on that tractor a lot on days I actually get to use it. I don't even think about it and it would be a pain for the same reasons the operator presence switch would. I have worn it when traveling at top speed on the highway (15 mph). I cant see anything throwing me from the operator platform at 5-10 mph. Back to the stroke senario, this time same thing happens and I am wearing seatbelt. I slump over and seatbelt keeps me from falling out of seat. I keep traveling to end of field and run into the ditch. The tractor rolls over and I end up unconcious, upside down, strapped in and sinking into the 2' of water and 1' soft mud in bottom of ditch. This time I drown. What did I gain?

I consider each job, if only for a moment, before I start and sometime s again during the job if something changes. I manage risks, I don't hope to or wish to try to eliminate all risk.

I support the use of PTO guards, I discourage work under suspended loads, I like neutral start lockout. Mine might start in gear if the clutch is depressed, I've never tried. I think I'll check that tomorrow. I sometimes start it from the ground.

 

[N80]

I realize I am talking about a lawn tractor and not a CUT or bigger, but the principle is the same.

Yep, that would drive me crazy. But, I'm not talking about lawn mowers and nowhere at anytime did I position myself to defend all safety devices. I'm in completely in agreement that many safety devices are over the top and overly intrusive. My point is simply that ROPS, seatbelts and operator presence switches are not over the top.

 

[mboulais]

N80-

You and I have been in the same debate several times (sometimes with each other).


I have been running tractors 20 yrs (since I was 15 or so), I know how to operate them. Your next argument will involve experienced operator complacency and routine tasks.

The fact that I lean forward to see what a suspended load is doing isn't inherently unsafe, and niether is moving a load under the bucket.

I don't wear the seatbelt, no discussion on here is going to change that. I will sometimes stand while operating a tractor to better see terrain or suspended load, This was not / is not such an uncommon practice (although definitely less safe than staying seated).

If you don't think that seat present switch complicates things, wait till you spend a couple hours trying to figure out why your tractor won't start.

My conjecture to support no precense switch is no less valid than you're conjecture to support them: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/safety/102696-2-fatal-accidents-todays-paper.html


You tend to make assumptions about how safe or unsafe others are on this forum very quickly. You made several assumptions about my reasons / methods after I took your bait to continue discussing this.
You often make statements that can be taken as an attack on the intelligence of anyone who doesn't completely agree with you.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kubota-owning-operating/102177-bummer-3.html

Lets see how I do:

1. Your about 55 ys old
2. Doctor or lawyer
3. You never drove anything larger than a 42" lawnmower until about 3 yrs ago
4. (and this goes with three) this is your first tractor

Did I get any of my assumptions right? Don't take offense, they aren't any worse than the assumptions you implied about me in this discussion or others in the others we both toke part in.

I have stated my opinions and you have stated your opinions. This isn't a winner/loser contest. It is time to agree to disagree. Have a good day.

I'll "see" you around on the other forums.


And I'm still gonna use my PTO guard!

 

[N80]

I have been running tractors 20 yrs (since I was 15 or so), I know how to operate them. Your next argument will involve experienced operator complacency and routine tasks.

I think your experience is great. I've been operating my tractor for 2 years and I know how to operate it. So? I know experienced people who have been doing dangerous (often stupid) things for years without ever getting hurt. What's your point? And on another tack, do you know how many experienced linemen get electrocuted every year due to simple oversight or neglect? Get my point? Experience is great. But it doesn't make bad practices right.

The fact that I lean forward to see what a suspended load is doing isn't inherently unsafe, and niether is moving a load under the bucket.

Whatever you say, you're the one with all the experience.

I don't wear the seatbelt, no discussion on here is going to change that.

I never intended to change your habits. I've simply been pointing out how indefensible those habits are. Nothing you've said so far makes them defensible.

If you don't think that seat present switch complicates things, wait till you spend a couple hours trying to figure out why your tractor won't start.

Gee, with all those years of experience I'd think you would be able to figger that out right away. On the other hand, the switch on my tractor does not keep it from starting. So I'm not sure what you mean. I can start my tractor from the ground if I want to. I can also run the PTO without anyone in the seat. Are you sure you understand how these things work?

My conjecture to support no precense switch is no less valid than you're conjecture to support them.

You are mistaken and have misrepresented me. Someone made an assumption about what had actually happened. I pointed out that there were other ways in which the accidents might have occured. I did not suggest in any way that that is how they actually occurred. The point, which you missed then and are doggedly missing now, is that things beyond our control and beyond our ability to plan or foresee can happen. THAT is when you need the safety features you disdain.

You tend to make assumptions about how safe or unsafe others are on this forum very quickly.

You operate a tractor with a ROPs folded down. You don't wear the seatbelt. If you had a seat switch you'd disable it. Those are not my assumptions they are your behaviors. How quick does one have to be to see less than safe behavior there?

You often make statements that can be taken as an attack on the intelligence of anyone who doesn't completely agree with you.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kubota-owning-operating/102177-bummer-3.html

An intelligent person need not feel attacked under such circumstances.

Lets see how I do:

Okay

1. Your about 55 ys old

Wrong. Off by a decade.

2. Doctor or lawyer

Right! I'm a doctor. But don't pat yourself on the back, my occupation is clearly listed in my profile. No need for a crystal ball. As such, I get to see the results of all that Darwin Award winning behavior out there. Maybe that ought to count for something huh?

3. You never drove anything larger than a 42" lawnmower until about 3 yrs ago

Wrong again! I've never had a lawn mower that big!

But, spent 4 summers operating a variety of heavy equipment from heavy forklifts to a large pole truck including augur. Spent several summers working on my B-I-L's farm. Drove a lot of tractors, but it was years ago and I didn't learn anything about the tractors at the time. Spent a good bit of time on an offroad (6 ton capacity) forklift when I built my own log cabin. Spent way too much time on a boom truck as well. Currently have been driving some of my B-I-Ls bigger Ag tractors. I don't consider any of that to be 'years' of experience but it does go to show how wrong you can be when you try to fit someone in a box.

4. (and this goes with three) this is your first tractor

That's correct. I've probably said that 1000 times here.

Did I get any of my assumptions right?

You're battin' 500. That's great in baseball. Not sure how great it is since one of your 'assumptions' was listed in my profile and the other is something I say in half of my posts.

Don't take offense, they aren't any worse than the assumptions you implied about me in this discussion or others in the others we both toke part in.

Even if your assumptions had been more than half right, I would not have taken offense. Why would I?

As for my assumptions about you, I don't really know what you mean. What assumptions? Did I get them right? At least half of them?

I have stated my opinions and you have stated your opinions. This isn't a winner/loser contest. It is time to agree to disagree.

Look, you are doing things that I consider unsafe. If your opinion about those things are that they make sense or are not unsafe then you should be able to defend the opinion in a rational way. If a guy says, "I do something unsafe, I know it isn't safe, I know it doesn't make sense and I don't think anyone else should do it" then FINE! End of conversation. But when you do unsafe things and condone unsafe things publicly and think that they are rational and do make sense, don't get in a huff when someone calls you on it. Either defend your opinion or realize that if you can't defend it then it is nothing more than an opinion and that opinions are a dime a dozen and even less for resale.

Have a good day.

No, you have a good day!

And I'm still gonna use my PTO guard!

Why? You'd think with 20 years of experience and proper planning you'd have no need for the thing.

An Optimist says the glass is half full...
A Pessimist says the glass is half empty...
An Engineer (Me) says you've got twice as much glass as you need.

And a scientist measures it and finds the glass is actually a little less than half full.

 

[mjncad]

OK, I have an example of a safety feature that I believe is over-the-top and rediculous. My mom recently bought a Sabre (JD) lawn tractor with a hydro transmission that has a reverse "safety" button on the dash that you have to push before it will let you back up. If you try to back up before pushing the button, the engine dies.

I realize I am talking about a lawn tractor and not a CUT or bigger, but the principle is the same. I may be wrong about this general statement, but I can't believe there isn't one person on this board who wouldn't find some way to bypass this switch because the tractor was such a pain in the neck to use. I did it the second time I had to use the tractor.

This is not to say I'm against all safety items, ROPS, neutral-start lockouts, guards for moving parts, etc. make sense to me, but I do believe they can go too far sometimes.

Check out my photo gallery (link in signature) of how I disabled the RIO Switch (a.k.a. Lawyer Switch) on my JD 130L. The neat thing is that I can put it back in 5-minutes if I so want to. Also here is the forum link to the RIO switch on my L130 http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/lawn-garden/89274-rio-reverse-implement-option-switch.html?highlight=%22lawyer+switch%22

 

[Soundguy]

Mboulais's sig line brought it into perspective.. at least for me. Being an engineer.. he (we) like to think we can plan for most things.. sadly.. it's not the case.. the entire concept of unexpected eventualities will blow a hole in the best laid plans.. just ask the white star line...

Soundguy

And I'm not saying that is wrong. I'm just saying that you can't plan for everything. And if you work a tractor on property like mine, doing the wide variety of things like most of us do, planning is only going to account for a small percentage of what we actually end up doing at any given time.



Yes, I'd agree with that. But at the same time you have to ask yourself just how much of a complication is a ROPs, or a seatbelt or a seat switch. I've got all that on my tractor. It complicates absolutely nothing for me.



Again, you are absolutely right, but that is not an argument against the safety equipment. You can't protect every idiot out there but there are countless seasoned tractor operators out there whose bacon has been saved by ROPs, seatbelts and seat switches.



I'm sorry you feel that way. Go back and look at my last few posts and look at yours. Who is being rational? Just because someone can't, won't or doesn't want to be rational doesn't mean that others can't. And I've been on these boards long enough that others can tell you, I'm not a member of the Safety Nazis. Just because I recognize the intrinsic value of 3 simple safety features doesn't make me an extremist.



That's fine. But it sounds like a cop out to me. If you have a valid point, make it. But don't just make it by saying "I do this" or "I never do that." So maybe we should start over. I'll throw these questions out and there not just aimed at you. For anyone who has or intends to disable these three saety features I'd love to hear your logic for doing so. Maybe there are aspects that I have not thought of that would change my miind and the minds of others who generally appreciate the safety features on our tractors.

You say you don't like your ROPS. Why not? What problems does it cause? Are those problems sufficient enough to remove it and put yourself at risk? what about other people who might use your tractor? Many of us have kids and older parents who are capable of using our tractors.

You say you still have your ROPS, but don't wear your seatbelt. Why not? How much trouble is a simple seatbelt? What realworld problems does it actually cause for you. Is that trouble sufficient enough to make not wearing a seat belt (on a tractor with a ROPS!) a reasonable risk?

I don't remember what you said about the operator presence switch. Have you or would you disable it? It is simple to do. If so, why? What actual, real world problems does it cause for you? How significant are those problems compared to the myriad ways in which you can leave the seat of a tractor in ways that you never planned, never intended and have no control over?

So, there's your chance. If you have an opinion on these matters, share it and defend it. If its just an opinion, and nothing else, well....you know what they say about opinions, we all got one just like....well...you know.

 

[Soundguy]

I like rops.. though most of my tractors don't have them... though.. if i had a pile of them laying in my pasture.. I would install them..

It's not that I don't like ROPS, I just don't think they are the be-all, end-all of tractor safety. ROPS have away of catching on overhead obstructions and can in fact roll over a tractor becuase of it. I have caught tree branches. I know a guy at work that took the ROPS off his zero turn mower after a couple near misses in the first two times out with it. I am not removing mine, I like it for the lights mounted above my head. Now that I have made room for the tractor in the barn, I could put it up. It has been down since I stored the tractor in the garage while installing the borrowed backhoe this spring. I am not in a hurry to put it up, but I'm not taking it off either.

If ya got rops.. ya need seat belts.. no point in having either without the other.. Who wants to be crushed by their tractor rolling on top of them, where the rops would have saved you.. had you been in the seat... That ones a no brainer... Sure.. it takes another 1.5 seconds to pull the seatbelt.. but I'd rather be tied tot he machine in a 'safe'-(er) zone.. than not.

As far as seatbelts go, I am still mad that I am required to wear them in my vehicle by law. I am up and down on that tractor a lot on days I actually get to use it. I don't even think about it and it would be a pain for the same reasons the operator presence switch would.:

I cant see anything throwing me from the operator platform at 5-10 mph. Back to the stroke senario, this time same thing happens and I am wearing seatbelt. I slump over and seatbelt keeps me from falling out of seat. I keep traveling to end of field and run into the ditch. The tractor rolls over and I end up unconcious, upside down, strapped in and sinking into the 2' of water and 1' soft mud in bottom of ditch. This time I drown. What did I gain?:

All I can say to that one is that if you can't see being thrown from a slow vehicle on flat land.. you simply havn't operated one long enough. ( I read your exp... My comment still stands ) I've been thrown twice from a tractor/heavy equipment. 1st time was on a bulldozer, going slow.. perhaps 4-5mph.. blade hit a burried boulder.. machine stopped instantly.. the laws of physics were functioning, so I kept moving forward.. came off the machine and landed in FRONT of it to look back and see the tracks happilly spinning... I had to climb back over the blade to kill it... ( no seatbelt on that oldie... ). Other time was on my 8n.. driving in my flat as a pancake florida pasture in 1st gear.. again.. doing under 5mph.. front tire fell into a hole that my dog presumably dug.. i didn't see it in the weeds.. hole was placed just right so tractor wheel drive into the mouth.. hole was big enough and deep enough that the entire left of center front axle pivoted and dropped into it far enough that the the oil pan high centered. Tractor hit, stopped for an instant, ag tires bit in, and then the tractor pushed, front axle popped straight up and out with lots of force, and then tractor moved another 4' and the rear tire hit the same darn hole.. except this time the tire was big enough to go in and out.. real fast.... This all happened in about a second I figure. I was literally thrown up in the air, hands holding on to the steering wheel, landed on the floor boards, and when the rear tire went in, my right leg slipepd off the boardand my legt was rubbing the sidewall of the rear tire asmy hands were trying to grab onto somtheing to pull my self up enough to get at the key switch or clutch.. both of which I got at the same time, with my hands.. not my left foot.. i got lucky.. just scared the 'Stuff' out of me.. no injuries whatsoever.. A seat belt would have held me in place. I've mowed plenty of pastures and hit a washout or other hole and had my larger the tractor lurch bad, at much faster speed.. at least 9mph.. and other than being jolted.. no big deal.. can't go anywhere due to the seatbelt.

Again.. if you think you can't be thrown off a tractor a 5mph.. you simply havn't seen enough seat hours... I've seen front axles break off tractor moving at low speeds causing some pretty bad situations.. It don't take much for 3-4-5 thousand pounds of rolling steel and iron to get wonky on you...


Soundguy

 

[N80]

I guess one of the reasons I get worked up about this is that after two years of active 'tractoring' I've gotten pretty proficient regarding the things that my tractor will do. And I am alert. I do try to plan my jobs. But my property and my tasks are widely varied. And there have been those times, those episodes where you get that unexpected butt pucker and after that tingling sensation and cold sweat go away you think how glad you are that you had a back up (Rops, seatbelt, whatever.) Just the other day I was moving brush and logs around on some very uneven ground (which is all I have). All of a sudden, the right rear dug up a half buried log or chunk of wood which rolled up under the tire at the same time the left front dropped into a little low place. In retrospect I don't think the tractor would have rolled, but at the moment the right rear came up and the left front went down...I sure thought it was going to roll. I dropped the FEL and steered left and it was fine. But it scared me. If that kind of thing can happen...and it can...then I want those simple safety features. Was I being careless? I don't think so but maybe. Is anyone immune from occasional lapses?

But, what cinches it for me is that I'm not the only one who runs my tractor. My 16 year old son runs it too and it won't be long before my 14 year old daughter drives it. I want them as safe as possible and any kid who sees his Dad using unsafe practices is going to think they are okay. So even if I thought all this stuff was a nuisance and I didn't really need them; I'd still use them because I wouldn't want my son copying my bad habits.

 

[mboulais]

This thread is headed nowhere fast. I said let's agree to disagree becuase lately there has been plenty of hostility toward anyone who doesn't post advice to strictly follow all mfg safety guidelines and use all possible safety devices. I shared honestly what I do and it is now just a big free for all of bashing my practices.

Other threads on the safety forum have been started strictly to bash people depicted in photos pulled (without permision, I'm sure) from other sites (mfgr's sites).

And yes I do take offense to the implications about the intellegence of someone who doesn't agree with the overly (IMHO) safety minded folk.

N80-

You keep asking me to defend my position, but you respond with the same rhetoric to everything I put up here. You're approach is not fostering any 2 way dialouge.

Considering I didn't read your profile and didn't go through your old posts other than ones I had recently run across in my normal travels I would say batting 500 is pretty good.

You won't even discuss suspended loads. Do you honestly think there is no safe way to carry an implement under the bucket? I have seen and done enough rigging in industry to safely move anything my 40hp tractor can lift.

You presume your opinion is the only one that should be seen by newbies. (how many years driving tractors before your no longer a newbie?). As long as I am reasonably polite, my views have as much value and right to seen as yours.


Soundguy-

"It's a no-brainer"? - That's not leaving any room for discussion. You couldn't draw a deeper line in the sand with a backhoe!

 

[mboulais]

N80-

You and I must have been writting our posts at the same time. Your last post had a very different tone and very clear reasonable argument in favor of them.

Nice post.

 

[N80]

Considering I didn't read your profile and didn't go through your old posts other than ones I had recently run across in my normal travels I would say batting 500 is pretty good.

Well, seems like predicting yesterday's weather but if it makes you feel good, that's fine with me.

You won't even discuss suspended loads. Do you honestly think there is no safe way to carry an implement under the bucket? I have seen and done enough rigging in industry to safely move anything my 40hp tractor can lift.

I didn't know we were discussing suspended loads....or even what you mean by that. And I think that is part of the problem. You're assuming that I'm an OSHA boy scout. I'm not. I think there are plenty of reasonable ways to take calculated risk and I've said so in plenty of other posts. I've been discussing ROPS, seatbelts and seat switches. That's all. If you want to talk about the risks vs benefits of other activities, that's fine. I suspect there are some things I do that might seem dangerous to you. Again, I'm not a safety **** no matter how hard you try to paint me that way.

You presume your opinion is the only one that should be seen by newbies.

I don't presume that at all and recent posts would indicate that I'm not the only who thinks my position on this is at least a bit more reasonable. There may be folks who agree with you but won't post for fear of being cast as unsafe lunatics. But is that any worse than being cast as a Safety Nut? And the simple truth is that some opinions are more sound than others.

(how many years driving tractors before your no longer a newbie?).

Good question, I don't know! Am I no longer a newbie? Or will it take another year or two before I graduate to Weekend Warrior?

As long as I am reasonably polite, my views have as much value and right to seen as yours.

While I value civil conversations I totally disagree with that idea. I could very politely recommend riding the kids around on the mower deck while I was bush hogging. Anyone who didn't rudely call me an idiot, would be just as, well, just as bad.

 

[N80]

N80-

You and I must have been writting our posts at the same time. Your last post had a very different tone and very clear reasonable argument in favor of them.

Nice post.

I'm not sure what you are referring to. If its the PTO shield I was being sarcastic. I leave mine on and in place even though I find it to be a great nuisance. My point was: Why would the very same person leave the annoying PTO shield in place but drive around with the ROPS folded down. It simply does not compute.

 

[mboulais]

I was refering to this:

I guess one of the reasons I get worked up about this is that after two years of active 'tractoring' I've gotten pretty proficient regarding the things that my tractor will do. And I am alert. I do try to plan my jobs. But my property and my tasks are widely varied. And there have been those times, those episodes where you get that unexpected butt pucker and after that tingling sensation and cold sweat go away you think how glad you are that you had a back up (Rops, seatbelt, whatever.) Just the other day I was moving brush and logs around on some very uneven ground (which is all I have). All of a sudden, the right rear dug up a half buried log or chunk of wood which rolled up under the tire at the same time the left front dropped into a little low place. In retrospect I don't think the tractor would have rolled, but at the moment the right rear came up and the left front went down...I sure thought it was going to roll. I dropped the FEL and steered left and it was fine. But it scared me. If that kind of thing can happen...and it can...then I want those simple safety features. Was I being careless? I don't think so but maybe. Is anyone immune from occasional lapses?

But, what cinches it for me is that I'm not the only one who runs my tractor. My 16 year old son runs it too and it won't be long before my 14 year old daughter drives it. I want them as safe as possible and any kid who sees his Dad using unsafe practices is going to think they are okay. So even if I thought all this stuff was a nuisance and I didn't really need them; I'd still use them because I wouldn't want my son copying my bad habits.

I did like it, it was a well written post.

As far as the PTO shield goes, I was messin' with you. You started with "PTO shields are for sissies". The PTO guard is still on because that is a risk I am not comfortable with. My PHD recently ended up short part of the shaft guard and the auger guard after a long and frustrating battle to change an auger. I fully intend to reinstall both due to the risk of shear bolts coming flying (although some modifications are in order on the auger guard).


As far as driving around with ROPS down, I don't do it to prove a point or for any other reason than It got folded to put the tractor in the garage a few times and never got put back up. Frankly it's a PITA to put back up and I probably won't do it until I need the Headlights again. Once up, it will likely stay up for the same reason. The only real problem with it being up is in close quarters in the woods.

I don't feel at all uncomfortable working without a seatbelt, it comes down to each persons comfort level. I also understand that not wearing the seatbelt negates the effectiveness of the ROPS. I am comfortable with those risks, not ignorant of the risks.

As far as suspended loads goes, you refered to my leaning forward on my tractor to check a suspended load or to better see what is going under the tractor while bush hoggin' is inherently unsafe. I guess I was the one assuming there, I assumed you meant the suspended load was unsafe.

The start of this was my dislike for operator presence switches. You say yours won't prevent you from starting your tractor? Any I've seen on riding lawn mowers did. I tried fixing one several times on a rider before tearing it out by the roots. If it kills a running tractor when you get out of the seat, I think I prevent you from starting your tractor without your seat firmly planted in your seat. All mechanical things fail eventually, all electrical things fail faster. an electrical switch that prevents you from starting a machine will eventually fail, and they are designed to fail open (for safety). And when a tractor doesn't start the safety circuit won't be the first thing that pops into the mind of the person troubleshooting it at the start of a weekend that is all too short with an all too long list of chores. Frustration I don't need.

I don't now when a person is no longer a newbie. I think it happens just before we're too old to run a tractor.

While I value civil conversations I totally disagree with that idea. I could very politely recommend riding the kids around on the mower deck while I was bush hogging. Anyone who didn't rudely call me an idiot, would be just as, well, just as bad.

You are right, someone who didn't post their opposing view might be just as bad, but someone who called you an idiot is just spoiling for a fight. I have on occassion urged safety on here, I am in fact quite experienced with enforcing industrial safety rules and providing assesments of lock out / tag out / zero energy requirements. My safety advice usually has to do with eliminating or at least being aware of potential dangers with methods of getting a job done, such as getting a stuck tractor out.

 

[N80]

The start of this was my dislike for operator presence switches. You say yours won't prevent you from starting your tractor? Any I've seen on riding lawn mowers did. I tried fixing one several times on a rider before tearing it out by the roots. If it kills a running tractor when you get out of the seat, I think I prevent you from starting your tractor without your seat firmly planted in your seat.

Mine works like this, if the tractor is in gear and you stand up (or fall off) it stops the tractor. But, if the tractor is in neutral you can start it without being in the seat. Likewise, with the tractor in neutral you can get off of the tractor with the engine running and from the ground you can engage the PTO so that you can run a pump or other stationary PTO driven implement. The only thing that that switch does that ever causes the tiniest problem is if you want to stand up and look around while the tractor is in motion. I decided I did not want to do that anyway so it the switch does not ever bother me.

All mechanical things fail eventually, all electrical things fail faster.

All things do fail but I don't think that there is any general advantage of the mechanical vs electrical components in a modern tractor. If that were true there are a lot more complicated electrical things that will go south before my seat switch. And if the seat switch does go, it would take all of a minute to override it.

 

[horse7]

It's not that I don't like ROPS, I just don't think they are the be-all, end-all of tractor safety. ROPS have away of catching on overhead obstructions and can in fact roll over a tractor becuase of it. I have caught tree branches. I know a guy at work that took the ROPS off his zero turn mower after a couple near misses in the first two times out with it. I am not removing mine, I like it for the lights mounted above my head.

I find it pretty easy to forget how high the ROPS sticks up, especially when too many other things are happening on the ground (lateral slope, ground hog holes, will the shiny new 96" hog clear both tree trunks )-- and having used a ROPSless MF1040 and being able to duck under pretty much anything that could clear the MF1040 nose, the 'duck and it will go by' habit is a bit ingrained.

Be putting a FOPS on later this year, partly to keep the rain off, partly so I know where the ROPS really is, and partly so the deadfalls hit the FOPS and not something more valuable.

(and I personally know a pretty smart guy in KY who insists that a seatbelt is dangerous, a ROPS will impede him from jumping off the tractor on the uphill side (not to speak of a seatbelt!), and he mostly stands up when driving a tractor (to more easily see over the nose of his ancient tractor, but also to be able to jump off quicker I guess). At least he knows to jump off on the uphill side if the tractor rolls over-- he has reminded me to remember that several times! )

 

[N80]

I find it pretty easy to forget how high the ROPS sticks up, especially when too many other things are happening on the ground (lateral slope, ground hog holes,

That is exactly why I want and need a ROPS. When there are too many other things happening it becomes easy for any type of accident to happen. As I've contended before, if I get so busy that I forget the ROPS that is just inches behind my head, I can forget other things as well.

the 'duck and it will go by' habit is a bit ingrained.

Me too. Never with a branch big enough to hurt anything though. Again, (and again and again) if I (you, we, who ever) can make that mistake, we could just as easily make a mistake that could lead to a rollover.

(and I personally know a pretty smart guy in KY who insists that a seatbelt is dangerous, a ROPS will impede him from jumping off the tractor on the uphill side (not to speak of a seatbelt!)

I know some presumably smart people who smoke cigarettes and don't wear their car seatbelts too! I think that anyone who thinks they can clear the platform of a tipping tractor needs to try doing the same thing from a tractor sitting perfectly still. Sit comfortably in the seat, one foot on the gas, one poised above the clutch and try leaping out of the seat in such a way that they clear the tractor. Not only is is hard, it might be impossible. Now add forward and tipping motion and the fact that you would be jumping against the direction that the tipping machine is throwing you...well, you know the punch line.

You'd certainly be in better shape to jump clear if you were standing up. But if you are standing up because you think the odds are high that you are going to have to jump off a tipping tractor, then you have your priorities waaay out of order.

But, in the end, your smart friend is right. If you have no ROPS, do not wear the seatbelt because if it does tip, your only hope is to leap clear. And I'm sure it has been done, possibly by people on this site. But I bet most of them wouldn't bet their life on it a second time.

My tractor has a nice flat platform, but it also has way too many grabby things to ever hope to jump clear of.

 

[riptides]

........
But, in the end, your smart friend is right. If you have no ROPS, do not wear the seatbelt because if it does tip, your only hope is to leap clear. And I'm sure it has been done, possibly by people on this site. But I bet most of them wouldn't bet their life on it a second time......

Not saying you believe it, do it, or agree with it N80 but quite a lot of people think they can jump and everything will be fine.

The leap clear mentality *might* work *some* of the time.

Well in my case, my slow moving Farmall got a piece of me.

Roll Over

-Mike Z.

 

[6sunset6]

In an earlier time I had a smaller tractor 18hp gas with a bucket. one of those Ingersol Rand things. No Rops and no seatbelt. I had the bucket up about 5ft high and dropped the front wheel off about a 3" step. Over it went ,me with it. It was so fast I had no idea what happened. Maybe some people can jump but I would rather have a seatbelt and a ROPS. Oh Yeah I got up and walked away from it. Small machine I guess.