75 acres of timber with house - trails, small garden, invasive control

[ericm979]

You're going to need a way to clear brush on that until the trees you plant are large enough to shade it out. Then you're going to need to thin those trees. Otherwise it'll be a highly flammable mess. You may want to move the logs too. At least the logs are a one time thing that you can hire a suitable machine and operator and just have it done. It'd be a lot of work with a chainsaw tractor and grapple.

The brush clearing may be more than can be done with a reasonably affordable unit. It might be more like a tracked skid steer with a forestry mulcher on it. Just the mulcher costs $60k or so.

The suggestion above of talking to your state forester (or their local rep) to get advice is a good one. In a lot of states it's free. Often there are payments or tax breaks for land management that meets state goals like wildlife habitat. A plan made by professionals should cost you less in the long run than making it up as you go, and get you results faster.

 

[newbury]

I'm totally new to these machines and their pricing, capabilities, limits... I saw something I liked the specs of, and made a call to get a price. If it was half that cost, with 5 year financing... I think it might have been something I could convince the wife of. New and reliable and no (major) maintenance is nice insurance.

So can we assume your upper limit is about $60K or so?
That gives us a target.
That Yanmar seems like a fair deal, it could be used for small jobs (and if you could convince the wife to use it could take some of the workload off you.) Puttering around a small garden is a pain in a 50HP tractor.
From your picture it seems you've got a lot of big leftover on the ground. You need to figure out what it's worth milling logs that have lain on the ground for years. In Mississippi an untreated pine on the ground might rot to unmillable in 4 years.
But you'll probably want 50 HP and lot's of implements, so save money for implements. And scan the marketplaces (FB, CL, auctions) for used equipment.
What I did was establish a need for an implement then set a time frame, usually a year, to find it used. If I couldn't find it used in decent condition then finally I'd buy it new.
Good luck.

 

[nmz787]

You're going to need a way to clear brush on that until the trees you plant are large enough to shade it out. Then you're going to need to thin those trees. Otherwise it'll be a highly flammable mess. You may want to move the logs too. At least the logs are a one time thing that you can hire a suitable machine and operator and just have it done. It'd be a lot of work with a chainsaw tractor and grapple.

The brush clearing may be more than can be done with a reasonably affordable unit. It might be more like a tracked skid steer with a forestry mulcher on it. Just the mulcher costs $60k or so.

The suggestion above of talking to your state forester (or their local rep) to get advice is a good one. In a lot of states it's free. Often there are payments or tax breaks for land management that meets state goals like wildlife habitat. A plan made by professionals should cost you less in the long run than making it up as you go, and get you results faster.

We met with the state forester for this region during our inspection period of the purchase. He said half the trees on the ~40 acres or so that had been logged in 2017/2018 had died. He said a (seedling) tree, delivery, and planting costs about $1. At 50% restocking needed (so 100 trees per acre, from the required total of 200 per acre) that's $4000. Which we negotiated for off the closing of the property. So we don't really need to worry about getting things in-line for the tax deferral (already registered with the state), we just need to ensure by next spring we've got new trees planted. As well as showing that we're making reasonable progress on keeping the invasives at bay (and reducing them). These consist mainly of Himalayan blackberry and Scotch broom... which could be as "simple" as using herbicides as far as the state is concerned (though this isn't what we want to be a primary solution).

I don't see any immediate reason why we couldn't live here for 20+ years (maybe more, but who knows). The place so far has been like a dream.

My wife has become interested in scanning craigslist tractor/equipment ads... and did come across a guy locally who talked about brush clearing... so getting a quote wouldn't be a bad idea. Similarly for the idea of getting someone to clean up the logs, I think going forward falling trees and milling them wouldn't be as frequent once the remnant piles are cleaned up.

 

[nmz787]

So can we assume your upper limit is about $60K or so?
That gives us a target.
That Yanmar seems like a fair deal, it could be used for small jobs (and if you could convince the wife to use it could take some of the workload off you.) Puttering around a small garden is a pain in a 50HP tractor.
From your picture it seems you've got a lot of big leftover on the ground. You need to figure out what it's worth milling logs that have lain on the ground for years. In Mississippi an untreated pine on the ground might rot to unmillable in 4 years.
But you'll probably want 50 HP and lot's of implements, so save money for implements. And scan the marketplaces (FB, CL, auctions) for used equipment.
What I did was establish a need for an implement then set a time frame, usually a year, to find it used. If I couldn't find it used in decent condition then finally I'd buy it new.
Good luck.

I think for the right machine, with financing, $60k wouldn't be out of the question. But from what I'm hearing, there might not be a single machine for what I need, and also that some machines I wouldn't need but once or few times ever.

The Mecalac MCR series is very very attractive, but my wife has already shot that down pretty severely. If I was in some sort of industry where I could use it for profit, I think it would make more sense.


I was also just talking to the wife and saying that the little tractor could be an easy low-risk entry point, monetarily. We'd at least be able to prepare the garden areas easily. I definitely understand the sentiment that a larger machine would make things harder in a small garden. Earlier someone mentioned parts availability, and that's definitely a concern that I haven't fully alleviated yet. A decade ago I'd have already found whether a rear-main engine seal was available, and how much it cost. I'm in a bit of a different mindspace right now... been so distracted with the property search for the last 14-15 months basically full-time other than my day-job. Now working on getting things tied up at the city house, and things cleaned up at the country house (i.e. scrubbing all the cabinets/shelves in the house).

So far my new pulaski (hand-tool) has been pretty effective... but I definitely can't move logs or grade the road with that!

 

[ning]

Take a look at the auctions.
There's one in your neck of the woods every month: link

I've bought attachments and a car through them; it is an auction so sometimes you get killer crazy good deals.. and sometimes people bid it up over what it's worth. Remember also that you'll pay 10% premium over your bid to the auction house as well, consider that in your bidding.

 

[jeff9366]

Invasive species consist mainly of Himalayan blackberry and Scotch broom... which could be as "simple" as using herbicides as far as the state is concerned (though this isn't what we want to be a primary solution).

For Himalyan Blackberries use a Rotary Cutter/Bush Hog to scalp them.

Followup with Crossbow or Rural King's Crossroad herbicide on subsequent sprouts. Both identical formula. (2-4d + Triclopyr)
Vigorous Himalyan Blackberrries will be harder to eradicate than my 24" native Florida Blackberrries.

I have no experience with Scotch Broom.

Crossbow herbicide Vs. Rural King "Crossroad" herbicide

Crossbow herbicide is very difficult to find in north/central Florida. The Rural King in Gainesville, Florida regularly inventories Agri Star "Crossroad" herbicide: 2,4-D -----------------34.4% Triclopyr BEE---------16.5% Inert Ingredients-----49.1% Similar? Better? Worse?......than...

www.tractorbynet.com

 

[nmz787]

For Himalyan Blackberries use a Rotary Cutter/Bush Hog to scalp them.

I see so much back and forth on flail vs bush hog... I guess I might as well get some more opinions here too. From what I've read/seen, flail seems like the way to go (better cut, better mulching, easier to maneuver), except that if the drum gets dented repairs can be costly.

I'm thinking that maybe I will just start with a pull-behind bush hog or flail mower. There's a 44" swisher rough cut on craigslist nearby for $1200, while the 48" "titan" (read: chinese import) is $2700 (new).

I rode my ATV on across some side-slopes earlier and tugged on the handle bars and tried to lift the wheels (i.e. simulate flipping sideways) and it felt solidly planted. So maybe while I scan the ads/auctions for a bigger piece of equipment, I will start with something the ATV can tug around... just to keep things generally in check and re-open overgrown trails. Obviously won't be able to grade or move earth... but at least it will get something done. It's hard to tell if it will end up being a waste of money, or if I'd just be able to resell if it didn't work out for my needs.

 

[jeff9366]

A single spindle Rotary Cutter has 50 parts. There are only two blades to sharpen.

A similar width Flail has 300 parts.

I prefer simplicity in implements.

(I have not actually counted the number of parts in either.)

I will guesstimate that Rotary Cutters outsell Flails 60:1 in Florida.

 

[Mudfarmer]

I work 80 acres of tree farm in Pacific County, Washington with slopes and wintertime mud. I use a 25 HP CUT (any brand will work). If you have winter mud like mine, consider R1 tires instead of the R4 tires CUTs usually come with. A little hill on an unpaved skid road will put you out of business in the winter with R4s.

That size of tractor will pull out any log you are likely to feel comfortable falling (unless you are a professional faller).

 

[dflur]

I think that you would be better served with a larger tractor. Older or rebuilt tractors pre-electronics and emissions controls are simpler, easier to work on and generally cheaper. Just be selective and careful. With what you are wanting to use it for, I would stay away from crawlers. They do excellent work, but would be difficult to move around on 75 acres. Plus they tear up the ground. A backhoeloader would be nice.

 

[OlyPenAaron]

FWIW, I watched my neighbor clear his land off and on for the last 2 years and the best tool he has is the grappler on front of his 33 HP tractor. With it he can easily and efficiently move 10-12' logs of reasonable width (Fir, Maple, Alder in the 18-24" range). That grappler also makes fast work of Himal. BBs in our area. Once the huge masses are removed, the trail mower keeps them at bay. [+ 1 for Crossbow (even though you may not want to use it, which I get).]. I agree with the others who mentioned that a parcel your size is not suited for a tracked rig.

For my part, I cleared trees on my parcel with an excavator. It's what I had at the time and is what I learned on, so I felt comfortable working on my slopes. With the thumb attachment on it, I was able to easily stage log decks for firewood and for log truck runs to the mill. I did a mix of grappling with it as well as cabling. The boom makes it easy-ish to drag logs off of the steeper hillsides to flatter ground. It takes time and a willingness to get creative; I never thought I'd have use of a 8,000 lb. block, but I'll be darned if I didn't...and I'm now pretty good at maneuvering 30' log sections into position. The power and leverage you get from a heavier, tracked machine is a definite plus, especially when you need to drag. For me on 5 acres, Yes. If I had to manage 80, No - not as a main tool. I still see a realistic use case for it, tho.

I was definitely in the camp of towing a trail mower behind my ATV before I bought my current tractor (3-point finish cut mower- I don't do any heavy brush cutting with it). I think it's a decent choice as long as it's heavy enough to do the job in a reasonable time. IDK about you, but my thumb gets sore if I have to throttle to a consistent speed.

I didn't see if anyone else sugg. this, so apologies if I just missed it: Considering your overall budget, get a tractor that you're comfortable with and consider renting or hiring out the the heavy lifting (no pun intended). I understand that rent/hire is not the same as the equity you get from ownership. For instance, I paid a friend of a friend $2200 for some dozer work that I could have done myself with my mini-Ex and my tractor in a month, and it was done-done (right I might add) in a weekend. Renting means you need to be able to plan ahead and keep the commitment, and that does not always work out in life.

 

[ning]

I removed the majority of huge blackberry brambles on our property with a long chain and my truck before I got my tractor (would probably use the tractor the same way now but I don't have large brambles any more). Ran the chain around the bramble (used a pole to poke it through the middle of a really big one I couldn't get all the way around and did this in two parts), used a slip hook and other end attached to my trailer hitch.

The chain gathered the mass up tight and pulled most of it out of the ground nicely; the mass ended up in a decent ball, which got towed to an open area and burned (careful, this stuff is really flamable even if the outside was green the inside is like a lot of dry kindling!).

Aftercare of the site involved me yanking what I could out of the ground, sometimes with the help of my pulaski (best hand tool ever), and barely anything grew back - it's easily controlled now, in late spring I walk around and pull a handful of stuff out.

 

[Louhasaboat]

I just bought 75 acres of timberland that needs about 40 acres replanted. some is reasonably flat or gently sloping, some steeper.

• Would like to pull logs to a mini sawmill (don't have yet), or onto a trailer for pulling to a neighbors for them to mill.
• Would like to make some new hiking/ATV/dirtbike trails, and keep existing trails clean
• Control invasive himalayan blackberry... some in unplanted areas, some amongst seedling trees (might need a handheld brush cutter, like a weedwacker with saw, for this)
• till small garden
• grade/flatten the gravel roads
• maybe plow some snow

Had been thinking a backhoe could be useful too, but don't have any immediately obvious need for one.

I have looked online at crawler loaders (seem expensive/time-intensive when repairs are needed), tracked skidsteers (not cheap to buy, similar repair concerns and issues trailering/moving it around). Have not thought too much about traditional tractors because of the concern over tipping on the slopes and not really planning much "ag farm" work.

Have most recently been thinking to get a pull mower (brush or flail) for cutting trails and maintaining them, and also mowing the 1/2 acre or so of grass near the main driveway that the neighbor can see. (or just pulling my push mower haha)

Today at my "city house" I was talking to the neighbor and he's got a Yanmar 165D for sale, about 700 hours on the clock, with a bucket on the front, a brush mower (needs new bearing), a drag blade, and a tiller. Wants $2500, says the bucket should normally lift 500lbs but lately it's only doing about 300... so something needs worked on with that. One of the front bucket hydraulic cylinder brackets, the upper one, is bent a little (he hit something too hard) but he said there's so little articulation with it that it doesn't affect anything, no binding, etc...

It seems like an easy buy, small enough that I can pull with my diesel Jetta or Chevy Colorado, and a small utility/automotive trailer... but also maybe too small for some jobs (and I'm concerned that it will just be too small). Definitely seems wayyy easier to work on, or get loaded and take to a mechanic by myself (i.e. no calling a lowboy to come in).

This would be my first "heavy equipment" purchase.

Would love to hear some opinions to help round out my thoughts on the matter. Thanks.

What you might consider is a Bobcat Toolcat 5600 or 5610. It can act as a tractor, skidded, truck, XTV and many other types of equipment. You can often rent attachments for short term use. While these are expensive, you can find 2005-2008 versions for $11,000 to $25000. I purchased mine at a Richie Brothers Auction. Do a little research on YouTube, also. Good luck

 

[jeff9366]

From what I've read/seen, flail seems like the way to go (better cut, better mulching, easier to maneuver), except that if the drum gets dented repairs can be costly.

FARMWITHJUNK is no longer posting here due to ill health. Big loss.

FARMWITHJUNK operated a commercial mowing business. Here is FARMWITHJUNK's take on Flail Mowers

A flail mower is what you use to make your mowing job take longer, use more fuel to get less done, and keep the parts man and mechanics busy, all the while emptying your wallet at an incredible pace.


There are three kinds of men:
1.) The ones that learn by reading
2.) The few who learn by observation
3.) The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

 

[Fla FA]

Hello,
I concur that a larger tractor would be better for your use. 4WD with a grapple.

However, I own a 1977 Yanmar 1100D, which is a 4WD gray market import with 11 HP. I have been very impressed with it's relative strength and durability. I use it primarily with a 60 inch brush hog to mow trails on mostly flat land here in Florida. It hasn't required any major repairs, but I can find parts online.

I also own a 2019 Kubota 2601 with 4WD HST and a grapple. The grapple is amazing and very useful. The 2601 is 26 HP, and I wish it were a little bigger.

I wouldn't be as concerned about the size of your Yanmar if you look at it as a starter tractor and take your work in smaller pieces. I would be more concerned about its current maintenance and repair requirements.

 

[newbury]

I see so much back and forth on flail vs bush hog...<snip>

Flail is great if your concerned about flinging stones through house windows.

 

[Molalla1]

Flail is great if your concerned about flinging stones through house windows.

Yep and also good if your dogs like to follow you around while mowing . . .

 

[kenmbz]

still looking at flail vs. brushhog. Everyone seems to complain that brush hogs throw stones, very far and fast while Flails don't . So surprised to hear the above about throwing stones with a flail.

 

[K5lwq]

Flails will still throw stones Just not as likely to do damage. When mine picks up a rock it usually throws it low instead of up.

 

[Username Taken]

still looking at flail vs. brushhog. Everyone seems to complain that brush hogs throw stones, very far and fast while Flails don't . So surprised to hear the above about throwing stones with a flail.

When I was a kid Bush Hoggin on our 200 Acre rock farm, I was of the opinion that if I could run over it on our Farmall 200 (not a really big tractor) then the bush hog would take it down.

Didn't always work out that way, however. Had to get pulled off of more than one tree that got under an axle. )The Ol' Man would get P.O.ed!)

That was with a transmission PTO so sometimes I didn't have a lot of choice whether to run over the tree or not.

When I got a yellowjacket nest stirred up (the ground kind) I'd just put the bush hog over it and watch them get chopped into dead little yellowjackets, Hated those things. Some made it out. If you sit real still, they don't always see you

Loved that bush hog. No clue what make it was. Red. Bought Shear pins by the dozen.