5th wheel brake issues

[RobertN]

It is 12G wire, at least to the magnets. One my last trip, and while testing, I had the gain all the way up.

I adjusted the brakes per the Dexter book, and the link you posted(link appears to be the PDF of the book). Good reference; I bookmarked it.

I check brakes by jacking up one side of the trailer, use a c-clamp to move the controller to full on and spin the wheels. Not too much power on my equipment trailer and I noticed the second axle had wires torn down. I fixed those wires and still not much braking. I adjusted the gain on the controller and that was the ticket for more braking power. I take it you had the gain set all the way turned one way or the other?

On my trailers they have small wire, maybe 14 guage and the brakes have more than enough power to stop the trailers. Not saying 12 is not a better guage to use but 14 guage could work. I also have a good ground from my plug. Another thing I think someone mentioned was running a good ground from the battery to a bare spot on the frame for testing purposes. Another fused cable plugged into the brakes eliminates or reduces some sort of voltage drop assuming a bit wire is used.

Are you sure you have the brake shoes properly adjusted? Even with full voltage an improperly adjusted set of brake shoes can't work so swell or powerfully. I have borrowed trailers with no working brakes that worked fine after I adjusted the star adjuster for just a wee bit of drag and a double check after a road test.

http://dexteraxle.com/i/u/6149609/f/9-15k_service-11-10/Electric_Brakes_11-10.pdf

Dexter Axle - Trailer Axles and Running Gear Components - FAQ'S
http://dexteraxle.com/i/u/6149609/f...6-11/Troubleshooting_Electric_Brakes_6-11.pdf

 

[Reg]

I agree. I cleaned up and soldered the connections... I have to break one to put the amp meter in series again. When I did measure the current before though, the current was linear to the voltage for the 3.2ohm resistance of the magnets.

Not what you want to hear, but; BAD MOVE !!!
Solder wicks up multi-strand wire and the flexibility is lost, i.e. unless you have very good strain relief the wire BREAKS inside the insulation due to vibration - a problem for a future thread (-:

Yes, it is CURRENT that you need to measure.
Voltage is what is being "offered", current is what is being "taken" and that is what the magnetic force between drum and magnet will be some function of.
Again, a battery charger with ammeter connected at the trailer plug's brake and ground should show just about 12 amps.
If it doesn't, you will have all the info you need right there in front of you.

 

[Ken45101]

Not what you want to hear, but; BAD MOVE !!!
Solder wicks up multi-strand wire and the flexibility is lost, i.e. unless you have very good strain relief the wire BREAKS inside the insulation due to vibration - a problem for a future thread (-:

Wow! Darn! I have always considered soldering to be the best way for a really reliable connection (electronics background). You certainly put it in a different light

 

[Reg]

Wow! Darn! I have always considered soldering to be the best way for a really reliable connection (electronics background). You certainly put it in a different light

Electronics background ?
Me too (-:

I made a VERY GOOD name for myself a long time ago tracking down interaction problems between "digital ground" and "analogue ground", most were a result of ground loops - and a failure of engineers to communicate.

Yes, solder is GOOD - at the actual connection, but of course the problem is deferred in time and displacement to one of the worst possible places (say a cm up the wire).
I just about CRINGE when I see driveway mechanics get out the 200+ Watt soldering iron.

BTW, wire wrap and crimps result in "cold welds", you probably knew that.
They are not really "cold" since the point pressure is high enough to melt the metals and flow them together.

 

[RobertN]

Well, what a difference!

We took the 5th wheel in to Placerville last night, to keep an eye on the sales area for the Master Gardeners; They set up yesterday, and are having a plant sale right today.

I could lock and skid the brakes in my gravel drive. I was also able to get a little skid on the main road near our house(25mph, manual activation).

The difference was incredible!

The brakes definitely had tons more braking power. I set the Prodigy controller only to half gain. It did not need to be turned up now.

Whether my old brake controller was getting weak(12 year old Sentinel with manual leveling, used the pendulum style to sense braking) or no, this Prodigy is definitely much much much nicer. The proportional braking was excellent. For only a ten mile drive each way, I was really happy with how it worked.

With the removal of the in-bed T, this explains why I though the braking was a bit off on my flatbed trailer too. It was! Because the "T" was causing a major power drop.

Now I have to figure out what is up with the in-bed "T". I like having that. Either the existing one needs R&R, or I need a new one.

When I get back from my trip next week, will have to look at that, and go over all the wiring again to see if I can pull a little more power out of the system.

 

[RobertN]

I worked in a lab where we did first silicon analysis; wafer level proofing of new memory and microprocessors. We'd insert sub micron probes in to the on-die circuits and measure timing ect.

When I first came in, it was amazing the rats nest of power cords and powerstrips that were in use. Here they had $50-100k high end o'scopes, parametric analysers, testers ect, just plugged in anywhere they could. It was crazy. And they got very inconsistent results...

Updated the lab with more electrical on hard drops, lost most of the power strips, completely in important test setups. Worked on grounds from the bench testers, probers ect. All the sudden they had repeatable results, that made sense based on calculations and simulations...

I'm not there anymore; or I would have begged to borrow the TDR scope to figure out my trailer/truck issues

I made a VERY GOOD name for myself a long time ago tracking down interaction problems between "digital ground" and "analogue ground", most were a result of ground loops - and a failure of engineers to communicate.

 

[slowzuki]

For mid splices of wires this is not commonly a problem in automotive wiring, but it sure is when taking a wire to a hardmounted component.

I'll continue to solder and use the goo-filled heat shrink as my best option for buttsplice, the goo filled crimps are my number 2 option if its a low current connection.

I will still curse anyone using unsealed butt connections in our salt climate! They ruin at least 6" of wire on either side.

Not what you want to hear, but; BAD MOVE !!!
Solder wicks up multi-strand wire and the flexibility is lost, i.e. unless you have very good strain relief the wire BREAKS inside the insulation due to vibration - a problem for a future thread (-:

 

[RobertN]

We just returned from three days of sailing classes in the Bay Area(Richmond, Ca). We towed the 5th wheel, and "camped out" at the sail club for two nights.

We had commute traffic thru Sacramento, Davis, Dixon, Fairfield, and Richmond Wednesday morning early. And, yesterday we hit some traffic around Richmond and Davis on the way home.

The braking and confidence while in traffic was much better. I only have the Prodigy controller at about 50% gain. But braking, and how proportioning of the braking, was great.

I did not like draping the pigtail over the tailgate to get to the 7-wire receptacle though; gotta figure out that in-bed pigtail...

 

[Ken45101]

I did not like draping the pigtail over the tailgate to get to the 7-wire receptacle though; gotta figure out that in-bed pigtail...

Why do you see that as a problem?

I had our bed wired, but they did it wrong (maybe Ford wire colors on a Chevy), so I've been using the socket on the bumper and haven't really seen where the bed socket would be an important improvement.

Ken

 

[RobertN]

Well, the in-bed pigtail is there already, and the hole in the bed. It is not a game changer, but I did like the convenience.

The in-bed pigtail "T" was ordered for the truck; it is a plug and play. Well, cut a hole in the bed, then plug and play. It appears to be missing on of two grounds on that the truck harness has. I am pretty sure one of the issues I had with braking, was the limited ground because of that, limited the current I could draw.

If I didn't already have the hole in the bed, then I probably wouldn't care.

Why do you see that as a problem?

I had our bed wired, but they did it wrong (maybe Ford wire colors on a Chevy), so I've been using the socket on the bumper and haven't really seen where the bed socket would be an important improvement.

Ken