50 Hr Service

[THEPARTYHOUND]

Yeah wooly, no problem. I changed filters at 50 and oil at 85. I saw another post where someone had found a bunch of shavings that settled to the bottom of their oil after changing it and that made me decide to change mine. I had shavings settling to the bottom as well, but I didn't give it much time to fully settle out. It was much darker than I had expected.

 

[THEPARTYHOUND]

That Amsoil is pretty good stuff too. That is one nice thing about running a synthetic...hydraulics don't take forever to warm up and work right when its sub zero and the cows are hungry!

 

[Diggin It]

Anyhow, on to the point of this post. I drained and refilled my transmission/hydro fluid tonight with 85 hours on the clock and I'm reporting back. I found TONS of shavings on the magnet

I think I'd be showing that picture (and the shavings if you still have them) to my dealer. All I found on my magnet was what looked like mud, fine shavings more like metal dust off a file or sandpaper. Yours looks like something off a metal lathe or drill press.

 

[THEPARTYHOUND]

I was thinking that they were left in there from the manufacturing process. I just cant figure how some gears meshing together and breaking in would cause the spiral metal worms like you would get when drilling a hole. I do not have the shavings but I do still have the oil.

 

[Diggin It]

^^ I still think I'd send them the pictures just to have a note on the file in case something comes up later.

 

[woolyAcres]

Yeah wooly, no problem. I changed filters at 50 and oil at 85. I saw another post where someone had found a bunch of shavings that settled to the bottom of their oil after changing it and that made me decide to change mine. I had shavings settling to the bottom as well, but I didn't give it much time to fully settle out. It was much darker than I had expected.

So even that change to Rotella HD quieted down your machine? Just think how smooth and quite it will be when you get your Engineered oil in there. Again, thanks for posting back and letting us know what's working (and not) for you.

 

[THEPARTYHOUND]

Yeah, no problem wooly, glad to give back what I can! I'd give it a try in yours too if you haven't already. That was money well spent in my opinion! I do look forward to seeing if it quiets down even more with the Lubrication Engineers fluid in there, but it would surprise me as it was already a night and day difference swapping out the factory fluids!

 

[Freep]

Yeah, no problem wooly, glad to give back what I can! I'd give it a try in yours too if you haven't already. That was money well spent in my opinion! I do look forward to seeing if it quiets down even more with the Lubrication Engineers fluid in there, but it would surprise me as it was already a night and day difference swapping out the factory fluids!

Please give us an update when you change it again. I've acquired 10 gallons of Rotella HD for my initial change and will be doing it soon as well.

 

[bvajgrt]

I have a question, I have a backhoe attachment with my CK35. How would I go about flushing out the fluid in the backhoe when changing out the hyd fluid ? I know changing out the hydro fluid wont get all the old fluid out, but the backhoe holds quite a bit of fluid, and I would rather know I am running most of the same fluid anyway.
Thanks in advance.

Brian

 

[Diggin It]

You don't.

If you have reason to suspect it may be contaminated, the only way I know of is to change it, run everything through all the motions a few times, then change it again.

 

[Bavarian]

It can be done but it's a royal PITA.
You'll have to disconnect every single cylinder from the hoe, that the cylinder doesn't cause any movement. Bring the disconnected cylinder to the one or other end of it's stroke, disconnect the hydraulic lines, activate the funktions to that cylinder to get fresh oil in the lines, reconnect one line only. The one, that brings the cylinder to the other end of stroke. Now you have to catch the squirting oil.from the open hydraulic line.
Now you have fresh oil in that particular cylinder and the lines.

Now repeat at least four times to get them all.

Or simply bring the hoe in a position, where all the cylinders are in the most retracted position. The rod side holds less oil than the piston side.

A total flush of the system is only done, when there is a known problem in a circuit.

 

[THEPARTYHOUND]

Like Bavarian said, if you bring all cylinders to their closed positions, there will not be much fliud in the backhoe. Further, and I could be wrong on this; someone please correct me if I am, as these are open center hydraulic systems you should be able to have the high pressure side connected and the return going into a bucket. Without the hydraulics being activated on the backhoe, the fluid will simply flow through the backhoe and out of the return into the bucket. That is how it works on my post pounder and I couldn't imagine the backhoe being any different as they both use open center hydraulic systems.

 

[Bavarian]

Like Bavarian said, if you bring all cylinders to their closed positions, there will not be much fliud in the backhoe. Further, and I could be wrong on this; someone please correct me if I am, as these are open center hydraulic systems you should be able to have the high pressure side connected and the return going into a bucket. Without the hydraulics being activated on the backhoe, the fluid will simply flow through the backhoe and out of the return into the bucket. That is how it works on my post pounder and I couldn't imagine the backhoe being any different as they both use open center hydraulic systems.

You're right on that. But you flush only from tractor to the control valve and back towards the tractor. You're not getting the oil out that sits in the lines from the control valve to the cylinders and the cylinders itself.
Like I said before, if there is no significant reason, there is no need to do it.
I'm not aware of any heavy equipment manufacturer that would outline those maintenance procedures for regular maintenance. An excavator leaves quite some old oil in the system and it stays there for multiple thousand hours. Even when the majority is renewed frequently.

 

[THEPARTYHOUND]

Ahh, sure, that makes sense. It wouldn't make sense to me either flush it. I did flush my post pounder when I bought it though. It had been sitting out in a field for many years and I didn't want to introduce any unknown contaminants into my system.

 

[aczlan]

Like Bavarian said, if you bring all cylinders to their closed positions, there will not be much fliud in the backhoe. Further, and I could be wrong on this; someone please correct me if I am, as these are open center hydraulic systems you should be able to have the high pressure side connected and the return going into a bucket. Without the hydraulics being activated on the backhoe, the fluid will simply flow through the backhoe and out of the return into the bucket. That is how it works on my post pounder and I couldn't imagine the backhoe being any different as they both use open center hydraulic systems.

True, but you have to be moving the levers to actually flush out the backhoe, otherwise you will just be dumping fluid.
I would start it up, raise the arm as high as it will go, retract the bucket cylinder all of the way, raise the outriggers all the way, then shut it off, remove the quick connect from the output on the backhoe, stick the hose into the bucket, then put the bucket into curl mode, then lower the dipper all the way, then have someone hold the rotate controls while you walk the boom to one side, then the other, then lower the boom all the way, then finally lower the outriggers all the way.
That should get almost all of the fluid out of the cylinders.

Aaron Z

 

[DieselBound]

It's an issue of contaminants and fluid performance. Filters deal with contaminants. Fluid performance, mostly, is a matter of the break-down of additives. In most cases fluids tend to hold up to their intended service intervals.

If worried about contaminants then just replace filters (more regularly; perhaps only needed for a short period of time while cycling though equipment that you suspect may have introduced additional contaminants).

There's been a lot of discussion about Kioti's 50hr service. They specify changing only the engine oil filter and not the oil, whereas older generations of tractors/engines stated changing the oil as well. Why? Because Tier IV engines don't dispense as much crap into engine oil and thus the oil additives are taxed less; oil quality is also improved, but isn't, IMO, as much a diff as is the cleaner running Tier IV engines. Again, the filters are filtering to levels prescribed by the manufacturer; filters have no real bearing on the condition of the additives in the fluids.

MHO is that, unless someone has put crap into the hydraulics of the attachment, it's not worth the safety risk of manipulating the attachment to cycle out the fluids. The amount of fluid in the attachment is but a fraction of the overall fluid capacity. If concerned then just bump up the interval of the next fluid change. OR... the ultimate is to take all the guess work out and have a fluid analysis done: that'll tell you the state of the additives and base fluid.

 

[finn1]

I just did the 50 hour service on my Kioti. Actually, I ran it up to 80 hours before I could get the tractor into the shop to remove the snowblower.

Comments: I bought the four filters from the dealer, but didn’t install the fuel filter, as in rereading the maintenance sheet, I see the common rail fuel filter is good for several hundred hours.

I changed the oil and filter, even though the oil is not required to be changed with the new filter at the fifty hour service. Oil is cheap, and the two drain plugs are easily accessible, so why not?


The hydraulic and hst filters are horizontally mounted, and you will loose almost two gallons of fluid when changing the filters. That’s a substantial percentage of the total system capacity. The dealer suggested that I use a good quality universal tractor fluid. I got mine from TSC. Be aware that they also have a couple of brands labeled for pre 1975 tractors. Stay away from them.

The hydraulic filter on the left side of the tractor was a bear to remove. It tool a strap wrench and a long handled 1/2” drive ratchet, along with a couple of long extensions to remove. The can collapsed partially when removing. I could not get enough leverage lying under the tractor, and a conventional filter wrench was hopelessly inadequate.

The strap wrench, 24” snap on ratchet, and two extensions allowed me to stand by this side of the cab and get a straight shot at the filter.

 

[aczlan]

The hydraulic and hst filters are horizontally mounted, and you will loose almost two gallons of fluid when changing the filters. That’s a substantial percentage of the total system capacity.

If you stick a shop vac into the "fill" port at the top and turn it on, you will lose little or no oil when changing the filter...

Aaron Z

 

[bvajgrt]

I was only asking after reading the posts about changing the hydro fluid after 50 hour or so. That got me thinking that if the hydro fluid was changed, what about the fluid in the backhoe. After reading the posts about going with rotella, amsoil and such, no there are two different fluids in the system. I am approaching 50 hours and just want to make sure I cover al the bases.

 

[Freep]

I've been following this thread (among others) as I recently came up on my 50 hour service and had similar decisions to make.

I decided to change hydraulic fluid as well as filters. The hydraulic fluid that came out of my 2018 CK3510HST looked very similar to the new fluid I put in to replace it. There was also no metal at all on the drain plug magnet. I'm not saying I regret changing it, but if I knew it was going to be that clean I probably would not have changed the fluid. Someone might consider collecting the fluid in a very clean container so it could be returned to the vehicle if it looked as good as mine, but planning to run out and buy new fluid if it looked bad. This would provide a chance to examine the drain plug as well, and even filter the fluid as it went back in if desired.

Also worth noting! After some investigation prior to the change (because where am I going to find a 6 gallon container that fits under the tractor?) I learned that a 2 gallon container of Super Tech (Walmart) 20-50 motor oil just fits under the drain plug. Three of those containers will hold all the hydraulic fluid if you can swap them out quickly.