50 Hr Service

[Bavarian]

In reply to the above three previous responses(#8,#9,#10)...my question is "why run hydraulic lube in a gear application?" That's why I run gear lube in the gears of the 4x4 hubs/axle. Hydraulic oil is quite often factory fill, most likely for simplicity sake, but after the gears have had a break-in time why not protect them with a gear lube like most other heavy equipment does. Say you're pushing snow or you're digging buckets of gravel, all the while using 4x4 because you're spinning out otherwise, and lifting the heavy loaded bucket and turning and dumping the load. Hydraulic fluid in there? Not my tractor. Just saying... Dutchy

Which sump is your hydraulic system running from?

Most of the new machines have no separate reservoirs for transmission and hydraulic. So, the hydraulic fluid is transmission oil at the same time. And transmissions have gears. Why not run that very same oil in an axle housing with gears only.

Now throw in wet brakes and wet clutches, your trans/hydraulic fluid gets more sophisticated.
If your tractor has a self locking front differential, its a wet clutch. And that sure doesn't work well with domestic gear oil.

Every teenager knows not to run domestc engine oil in a dirt bike. It's for the clutches.

 

[DK35vince]

Been running gear oil in the front axle of my DK 35 the past 18 years, and that's what I plan to continue to use.

 

[Bavarian]

If it's a plane gear axle without a clutch, there is nothing against it.

 

[THEPARTYHOUND]

Just curious, how is the wet clutch set up in the differential? My 7320 has an auto engaging front differential (no locker or limited slip that I know of). Limited slip diffs are the only ones I know of with clutches, and they generally use 80w90 or similar and then require the addition of a small amount of friction modifier as well.

 

[woolyAcres]

I did my 50 hr service per the manual, which also matched what the dealer recommended: engine oil and filter, front axle fluid, hydraulic filters only, topping off with Mobil 424. As you've probably already heard/read those 2 hydraulic filters are a pain to get off. There are a stack of magnets inside that were all gunked up. They clearly pulled a lot of metal shaving out of the fluid. I was hoping some of the transmission/gear whine would go down after doing the 50hr service. If it did, it wasn't noticeable.

 

[JimR]

In reply to the above three previous responses(#8,#9,#10)...my question is "why run hydraulic lube in a gear application?" That's why I run gear lube in the gears of the 4x4 hubs/axle. Hydraulic oil is quite often factory fill, most likely for simplicity sake, but after the gears have had a break-in time why not protect them with a gear lube like most other heavy equipment does. Say you're pushing snow or you're digging buckets of gravel, all the while using 4x4 because you're spinning out otherwise, and lifting the heavy loaded bucket and turning and dumping the load. Hydraulic fluid in there? Not my tractor. Just saying... Dutchy

Rightly so to put gear oil in the front axle. Those little gears in the MFD take a lot of stress when using the loader in 4x4.

 

[THEPARTYHOUND]

Hey wooly, I didnt change the transmission fluid at my 50 hr service, but it sure looks like a lot of metal in there. I just picked up 3 pails (15 gallons) of Rotella HD (identical to the shell fluid called for in our manuals) for $40/ea at autozone on clearance. At that price Im gonna just do it.

 

[woolyAcres]

@theHound- that was actually my plan when I was at 50, replace fluid. When I called the dealer to order the filters and spoke with the service manager, he talked me out of the transmission fluid. My 2 biggest complaints about this machine are 1) no buddy seat, which I knew before buying but didn't realize how big an issue it would be and 2) I find it to be rather loud. I was hoping that changing the fluid and filters would reduce what I perceive to be a whine coming from under the seat. The service manager I spoke with though it was most likely the filters were plugged and in need of the 50 hour change. That's the conversation where he talked me out of changing the fluid but I've got it here and have considered doing it.

Do you find your model to be loud? Let me know if you think changing the fluid makes a difference.

There was another thread on here somewhere about the noise of this machine, cab model. Fellow was upset with the volume. I think he bought a radio but couldn't really listen to it. I have to agree. Considering just the machine noise- not attachment like cutter machine, bailer, etc- it's as loud as our open station tractor. But it's a lot warmer in the winter and cooler in the summer

 

[THEPARTYHOUND]

Yeah, mine is pretty loud too. Gear whine is what I think I'm hearing. I will use this Rotella HD I found a good deal on to flush out the old oil and get some clean oil back in there. I will run it for another 50-100 hours or so to let it finish breaking in if its not completely finished yet. At that time I will use a Transmission fluid from a company called Lubrication Engineers. Its not cheap, but way less expensive than my tractor was! It will be around $65/5 gallon pail plus another $25 to ship it. Ive done quite a bit of research on this stuff as my previous tractor came pre-loaded with this as the transmission fluid and it had their engine oil in it too. The stuff has such dramatically higher antiwear properties than anything else out there that if used in a new engine it will not allow the engine to break in properly. It is used in industrial applications such as mines, logging outfits, construction companies, etc. It is designed with extended drain intervals in mind. Instead of changing transmission fluid, you take a sample and send it off for testing. Transmission fluid would last 1k hours, likely 2k in our machines.
I talked to a rancher around here that started using it. He told me that after he started using this stuff in his transmission that he was able to pull his plow 1 gear higher than before! This is the stuff that I expect will quiet down my transmission if anything will.

 

[cat fever]

For the hydro filter, if you don't have a good chain wrench you better go buy one. Make sure you have a cheater too. The newly installed filter is just really hand tight. Should be easy on the next fluid change.

I think the owners manual says to use gear oil for the front end. That's what I used.

Good luck, let us know how it goes getting the hydro filter off.

 

[JimR]

Yeah, mine is pretty loud too. Gear whine is what I think I'm hearing. I will use this Rotella HD I found a good deal on to flush out the old oil and get some clean oil back in there. I will run it for another 50-100 hours or so to let it finish breaking in if its not completely finished yet. At that time I will use a Transmission fluid from a company called Lubrication Engineers. Its not cheap, but way less expensive than my tractor was! It will be around $65/5 gallon pail plus another $25 to ship it. Ive done quite a bit of research on this stuff as my previous tractor came pre-loaded with this as the transmission fluid and it had their engine oil in it too. The stuff has such dramatically higher antiwear properties than anything else out there that if used in a new engine it will not allow the engine to break in properly. It is used in industrial applications such as mines, logging outfits, construction companies, etc. It is designed with extended drain intervals in mind. Instead of changing transmission fluid, you take a sample and send it off for testing. Transmission fluid would last 1k hours, likely 2k in our machines.
I talked to a rancher around here that started using it. He told me that after he started using this stuff in his transmission that he was able to pull his plow 1 gear higher than before! This is the stuff that I expect will quiet down my transmission if anything will.

Thanks for the info on this gear oil. That is the same price I just paid for Mobil 424 except I got free shipping on it. The rear end gears on the NX series has that same whine. The faster you drive the more it whines.

 

[THEPARTYHOUND]

I didnt have a chain wrench for the filters, so I used what I had and that was a large set of channel lock pliers. It was a PITA, but it worked.

 

[woolyAcres]

Yeah, mine is pretty loud too. Gear whine is what I think I'm hearing. I will use this Rotella HD I found a good deal on to flush out the old oil and get some clean oil back in there. I will run it for another 50-100 hours or so to let it finish breaking in if its not completely finished yet. At that time I will use a Transmission fluid from a company called Lubrication Engineers. Its not cheap, but way less expensive than my tractor was! It will be around $65/5 gallon pail plus another $25 to ship it. Ive done quite a bit of research on this stuff as my previous tractor came pre-loaded with this as the transmission fluid and it had their engine oil in it too. The stuff has such dramatically higher antiwear properties than anything else out there that if used in a new engine it will not allow the engine to break in properly. It is used in industrial applications such as mines, logging outfits, construction companies, etc. It is designed with extended drain intervals in mind. Instead of changing transmission fluid, you take a sample and send it off for testing. Transmission fluid would last 1k hours, likely 2k in our machines.
I talked to a rancher around here that started using it. He told me that after he started using this stuff in his transmission that he was able to pull his plow 1 gear higher than before! This is the stuff that I expect will quiet down my transmission if anything will.

Good info on the upgraded fluid. I haven't changed mine yet and I have other places I can use the 15 gals of 424 that I bought. Please keep me posted on if/how it impacts the noise. I'd be fine with spending the money to flush the transmission and replace the fluid if it would quite things down. I put a radio in mine not long after getting it but I have yet to get any real use out of it.

 

[xcgreene]

See this attachment for a kioti product support bulletin from 2014, Most everyone's oil requirements from Kioti are on here.

note the bottom where it says SAE 80W-90 gear oil or transmission fluid.

View attachment Lubricant Chart Kioti.pdf

 

[THEPARTYHOUND]

Just an FYI on the 80w90 gear oil. It is the same thickness or viscosity as the hydraulic oil...30 weight oil. Gear oil viscosity is not apples to apples with say engine oil. They do it this way so you don't put gear oil in your engine. It doesn't have the proper additive package to be used as engine oil.
Anyhow, on to the point of this post. I drained and refilled my transmission/hydro fluid tonight with 85 hours on the clock and I'm reporting back. I found TONS of shavings on the magnet and I'd have been glad I changed the fluid for that reason alone! The fluid was fairly dark, however not likely that it NEEDED to be changed. I really didn't expect any difference in gear noise. I figured I'm putting back in pretty close to what just came out of it, so it shouldn't make much difference. Wow, was I wrong! I sure wish that I had taken a DB measurement with the app I have on my phone just for a ballpark on the difference it made because it is noticable! I plan to run this fluid for the next hundred hours or so just to flush any other metal out of the system and catch any more break in debris if there is any, then I will change it out again for a good quality synthetic that should last a couple thousand hours (with filter changes and periodic sample testing of course). On to the pics...

 

[cat fever]

I am amazed at your results. I changed my hydro fluid at 200 hours and there was nothing on the magnet and the fluid still looked like new oil.

I must not be working mine hard enough.:laughing:

 

[THEPARTYHOUND]

I'm thinking that pulling a plow has to be just about as hard as ya can be on a tractor without abusing it.
Did you pull all 3 plugs when you drained it? Only 1 plug was full of shavings, other 2 were clean. I'm sure glad I changed that fluid out even though it wasn't called for. Kinda wish I had changed it sooner.

 

[woolyAcres]

@THEPARTYHOUND-
Thanks for reporting back! I recall using a phone app to measure sound pressure in my machine. I could to it again next time I'm in the machine but I seem to remember something around 90dBA.

I've got to admit, I've lost track of your process. Did you change the filters at 50hr and now the fluid at 85, or did you change fluid and filters at 50 and the fluid again at 85?

 

[Robin Veerman]

Just an FYI on the 80w90 gear oil. It is the same thickness or viscosity as the hydraulic oil...30 weight oil. Gear oil viscosity is not apples to apples with say engine oil. They do it this way so you don't put gear oil in your engine. It doesn't have the proper additive package to be used as engine oil.
Anyhow, on to the point of this post. I drained and refilled my transmission/hydro fluid tonight with 85 hours on the clock and I'm reporting back. I found TONS of shavings on the magnet and I'd have been glad I changed the fluid for that reason alone! The fluid was fairly dark, however not likely that it NEEDED to be changed. I really didn't expect any difference in gear noise. I figured I'm putting back in pretty close to what just came out of it, so it shouldn't make much difference. Wow, was I wrong! I sure wish that I had taken a DB measurement with the app I have on my phone just for a ballpark on the difference it made because it is noticable! I plan to run this fluid for the next hundred hours or so just to flush any other metal out of the system and catch any more break in debris if there is any, then I will change it out again for a good quality synthetic that should last a couple thousand hours (with filter changes and periodic sample testing of course). On to the pics...

View attachment 601220View attachment 601221View attachment 601222

I can't believe the crap on that magnet. It's a good thing that there was a magnet on the plug! I changed the trans/hydraulic fluid on my Kioti CK30HST at about 65 hours and it didn't look anything like yours although there was a little debris on the magnet. I switched it out to Amsoil Tractor/hydraulic fluid and I couldn't be happier. My shed is at the far edge of my property and so it isn't easy to warm up the tractor much before I start to blow snow. The hydraulics work at the same speed be it summer or winter (this fluid isn't thick in the cold)and that's important to protect all the internals of the system. It meets Case, JD, Kubota specs as well as many others and is an all-season oil so that it doesn't need to be changed with the seasons like some lubes do. It's not cheap but if I order it direct and wait for a promotion I can usually get it shipped for free. It is a long life lubricant too, although it would be best to do UOA to determine how it works in each application. I currently have about 250 hrs on my oil fill and looks pretty clean yet. As a matter of fact, it's hard to read on the dipstick. See info here... AMSOIL Synthetic Tractor Hydraulic/Transmission Oil SAE 5W-3 Dutchy

 

[cat fever]

I'm thinking that pulling a plow has to be just about as hard as ya can be on a tractor without abusing it.
Did you pull all 3 plugs when you drained it? Only 1 plug was full of shavings, other 2 were clean. I'm sure glad I changed that fluid out even though it wasn't called for. Kinda wish I had changed it sooner.

Yes I did pull all three plugs.