50 Hr Service

[THEPARTYHOUND]

Hey fellas, Ive read about 3 different things in regards to what needs to get changed during the 50 hr service. Engine oil and filter, check. Everyone agrees on that. I've read that hydraulic fluid/transmission fluid needs to be changed, some say just the filters. The book says just the filters, then the hydraulic fluid at something like 400 hrs. What, if anything, has everyone else decided?

 

[xcgreene]

This topic has been beaten to death a number of times, but I enjoy it. So I paste up my usual response.

Most folks who carry out a lot of heavy machinery maintenance can tell you how trashy oil can look at the first 50 hours of any new equipment. I know my kiotis oil looked opaque in color, with a teaspoon worth of grit mixed in on that first 50 hour change. Its never look that bad since. Most likely was sitting in the bottom of the sump, having been flushed out of every port and too heavy to be sucked up. But beyond the items that have fallen out of suspension, there are elements in the oil that are not filtered out, that can be just as bad for lubricated equipment. Anything less than 11 micron, (or whatever filter is being used, this is the DKse filter mesh) will continue to build within the oil as the hours go by. Same goes for any foreign chemicals that can get into the oil. The quality of oil is far more than a particulate count. Film strength, TAN, viscosity shifting out of range due to oxidation.

If you have the time, cut open your first 50hr hydraulic filter, you may find it has picked up quite a bit of trash. Lots of metal and grit, the media completely gray from metal powder. Same goes for engines, you wouldn't believe the amount of metal powder that gathers on a magnetic drain plug in a freshly rebuilt iron block engine from all of the new parts mating together. The entire transmission of a tractor is no different. The last thing you want, is a filter full and bypassing. A filter change at 50 hours can help prevent this. After the initial 50 hour change or so, the filters are never as compromised, and look much better internally.*

I know all equipment and automotive companies make a lot of money on service, but I don't think its a waste for the consumer to do the 50hr. Especially when there are cheaper, and possibly even better brands, like Wix or Donaldson out there with x-references to factory filters.


But there are far worse things one can do to equipment than skip the first 50hr filter/oil change. I just like rambling on about the subject of operation and maintenance.

 

[VictorW]

Engine oil and filter is a definite like you posted. I did my hydraulic oil at 50 hours with filters. I'll have to agree with xcgreene. The hydraulic oil may still have it's properties but there is a good bit of very fine particulate floating in it. When I drained mine at 50 hrs, I put my finger in the pail and swirled it around. The oil had a pearl like shine to it. I didn't think the cost of the oil was that much to make sure most of the particulate was gone. Every change after, 400 hrs apart, and there wasn't any more. Other members have their own beliefs.

 

[HillStreet]

Check the torque on the wheel lugs too. My dealer told me to check all nuts and bolts on the 50 hour also.

 

[THEPARTYHOUND]

I swapped sides with my rear tires/wheels to widen them to their widest possible setting. I brought a torque wrench with me, but didnt have much luck finding torque specs so cranked on them pretty good with the impact wrench. They are tight, but I would have rather torqued them. Those buggers were heavy! Somewhere around 1k lbs someone said.

 

[ritcheyvs]

Check the torque on the wheel lugs too. My dealer told me to check all nuts and bolts on the 50 hour also.

And also the loader mount bolts. If the loader mount moves WRT the tractor frame bad things happen, like ovaling the bolt holes.

It isn't clear why these get lose but I think the paint compresses.

 

[Robin Veerman]

Don't forget the front axles if it's a 4wd tractor. They are usually factory filled with hydraulic oil and should be changed to a gear oil like 75w90 or 75w110. I used AMSOIL 75w110 for my Kioti. Dutchy

 

[Oldoak]

Don't forget the front axles if it's a 4wd tractor. They are usually factory filled with hydraulic oil and should be changed to a gear oil like 75w90 or 75w110. I used AMSOIL 75w110 for my Kioti. DutchyView attachment 599282

Why do you think the front axle fluid should be changed from hydraulic oil to gear oil?

 

[DieselBound]

^^^ Yeah, why?

Most manufacturers specify hydraulic fluid as their new fill (and spec it for maintenance changes, allowing for gear as well). Basically, go by what the manufacturer recommends and you're fine. If I can minimize the number of different fluids I have to have on-hand then the better: I've got so many pieces of equipment that I maintain that it's hard to keep all the necessary fluids stocked!

 

[xcgreene]

If the hydraulic fluid is good enough for all that happens in the transmission and rear differential, its good enough for the front axle.

 

[grm61]

Why do you think the front axle fluid should be changed from hydraulic oil to gear oil?

Talk to a drag racer...


There is a lot of stress on the bevel gears when in 4wd and traction is good while turning. IMO a good gear oil, especially a quality synthetic will provide some cushion...much better than a hydraulic oil.


My manual stated the factory fill HYD or a 80/90 gear oil...on the font axle and finals on the front axle


I used 80/90 shaefers synthetic at the 50 hr service.


My qualifications....old guy, broke **** before..... TIFWIW

 

[Freep]

I am pretty much sold on changing the hydraulic fluid at 50 hours (well... near 50 hours, at least). I am swayed by the argument in post #2 that there's all sorts of stuff in there that should be removed. It's painful to me to dispose of 10 gallons of hydraulic fluid that is in fairly good condition, and while I've heard others talk of filtering it and returning it to the tractor, I think if I'm going through with the whole procedure I should just replace the fluid.

That said: I wonder if this filtered/new hydraulic fluid might find a home in the front axle, given that hydraulic fluid is an option. It seems like less sophisticated mechanics involved. Or am I asking for trouble?

 

[grm61]

I took some pics of the hydro oil out of the trans and front axle at my 50hr service......read through the thread an decide how to proceed…...glad I dumped it all at 50:thumbsup: This is what was left in the bottom of the buckets when I dumped them after setting for a couple weeks.


This was back in 2014...good folks... entertaining...hope it helps

https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums.../304137-50-hour-hydro-oil-non.html?highlight=

 

[grm61]

I am pretty much sold on changing the hydraulic fluid at 50 hours (well... near 50 hours, at least). I am swayed by the argument in post #2 that there's all sorts of stuff in there that should be removed. It's painful to me to dispose of 10 gallons of hydraulic fluid that is in fairly good condition, and while I've heard others talk of filtering it and returning it to the tractor, I think if I'm going through with the whole procedure I should just replace the fluid.

That said: I wonder if this filtered/new hydraulic fluid might find a home in the front axle, given that hydraulic fluid is an option. It seems like less sophisticated mechanics involved. Or am I asking for trouble?

Yes…..You are already explained it once.....learn yourself.

 

[Oldoak]

Talk to a drag racer...
----------------------------------------------------------------------

No need to talk to a drag racer. I don't drag race with my tractor nor know anyone that does. That's not what a tractor is for. :confused3:


xcgreene understands and got it right:

If the hydraulic fluid is good enough for all that happens in the transmission and rear differential, its good enough for the front axle.

 

[aczlan]

I am pretty much sold on changing the hydraulic fluid at 50 hours (well... near 50 hours, at least). I am swayed by the argument in post #2 that there's all sorts of stuff in there that should be removed. It's painful to me to dispose of 10 gallons of hydraulic fluid that is in fairly good condition, and while I've heard others talk of filtering it and returning it to the tractor, I think if I'm going through with the whole procedure I should just replace the fluid.

That said: I wonder if this filtered/new hydraulic fluid might find a home in the front axle, given that hydraulic fluid is an option. It seems like less sophisticated mechanics involved. Or am I asking for trouble?

I wouldn't, there's a lot of small gears that have to keep working in the front axle. I would use it for bar oil if you use a chainsaw much.
Our next door neighbor growing up work for the highway department and he brought home used hydraulic fluid to run as bar oil.

Aaron Z

 

[Diggin It]

Mine specs 80W Gear Oil for the front axle. Seems to be a fairly common function/part, so I wonder why the differences in specs?

 

[Rock Crawler]

Talk to a drag racer...


There is a lot of stress on the bevel gears when in 4wd and traction is good while turning. IMO a good gear oil, especially a quality synthetic will provide some cushion...much better than a hydraulic oil.


My manual stated the factory fill HYD or a 80/90 gear oil...on the font axle and finals on the front axle


I used 80/90 shaefers synthetic at the 50 hr service.


My qualifications....old guy, broke **** before..... TIFWIW

My dealer told me that they spec both as well, but he also suggested getting the factory fill hydro fluid out and gear oil in at my 50 hour, so that is what I did.

At my 50 hour I ignored the manuals limited recommendation and did a full front axle, rear axle/trans, engine and fuel fluids and filters swap. I looked at it like this... I plan to own this machine... for life. Spending a few hundred dollars at 50 hours to make sure that I am off on the right path is worth it if that helps me out later with a longer service life and less repairs as the hours accumulate. I do the same with my pickup trucks I buy, I swap transfer case, differential fluid and trans fluid at the initial oil change. Overkill? Maybe so. But it makes me feel good.

 

[Robin Veerman]

In reply to the above three previous responses(#8,#9,#10)...my question is "why run hydraulic lube in a gear application?" That's why I run gear lube in the gears of the 4x4 hubs/axle. Hydraulic oil is quite often factory fill, most likely for simplicity sake, but after the gears have had a break-in time why not protect them with a gear lube like most other heavy equipment does. Say you're pushing snow or you're digging buckets of gravel, all the while using 4x4 because you're spinning out otherwise, and lifting the heavy loaded bucket and turning and dumping the load. Hydraulic fluid in there? Not my tractor. Just saying... Dutchy

 

[Freep]

I would use it for bar oil if you use a chainsaw much.

Great idea. Thanks!