4WD: Advantages/disadvantages

[Dargo]

Now you guys are making me laugh. Some of my comments were to spur you to admit that your new tractor, although not complicated, is a bit better than the old ones. I managed to inherit partial ownership in an old 8N and a Ford 5000. I'm honestly scared to touch either. With me being only part owner, I'm sure something would break on them if I ever used either. I tried both exactly once. They both promptly broke and cost me several hundred dollars in repair costs along with a lot of my time. They may be oldies with some sentimental value, but as far as real working machines, I think all the work has been used up in them.

 

[machmeter62]

a SN of 9N12328 would put it as a very early 40.

rears may be a 28" ( or possibly a 32" ) hat rim and if original, will be a smooth hub.. though many have been replaced with rivited hubs due to air entrainment in the castings causing flaws..

got any pics?

Soundguy

I haven't advanced to the digital age yet! But this story may suffice? Thanks again for the update on the vintage. As I mentioned, the tractor was poorly maintained, but the price was right. ($800) in 71'. I started using it before I really had time to clean it, and it was dirty and greasy looking with years of neglect. On our rural undeveloped property, we had no running water yet, but the property has a creek with steep/deep banks that flows through it. It was early Easter Sunday morning when I tried to start it, and wasn't ready for the outcome! It still had the 6 volt system, and the battery was probably low? I may have flooded the engine, and fuel was somehow dripping on the wires that I didn't notice, but I smelled the flooding The wires were covered with grease/dirt! Anyhow, fuel got to the hot coil/ignition wires because of the continous cranking, and a fire developed with immediate flames! The engine never started! I couldn't run to the creek and back in time, so the other option was a shovel nearby to throw dirt on it before the gas tank caught fire! Some passer by saw dilemma, and about 10 minutes or so later I could hear the sirens coming. I was unable to put the left front tire out till the FD arrived. The saga of the story was my wife at our home some 2.5 miles away heard the sirens on that quiet Sunday morning, and I ignored her comment. I didn't want a lecture, because she told me not to buy it in the first place!? An unforgettable Easter!!

 

[Soundguy]

Age has little to do with it.. I have both an 8n and a 5000.. both are still workers.

A few weeks ago i had the 8n on a 5' hog mowing in weeds that were above my head. I had her at max throttle to keep the rpms up.. she ran great. She is also my seed and fertalizer spreadr tractor.

The 5000 pulls a 10' mower, and a trailer occasionally.. and totes round bales on a rear spear....

The particular units you had may have been used up.. but the machines in general.. both the 8n and the 5000 were very robust. The 5000 was perhaps one of fords best tractors.

Here's a recent pic of my 5000 with the 10' mower on her... she's a -real- workhorse... Still with oem lucas 12v generator...

Soundguy

Now you guys are making me laugh. Some of my comments were to spur you to admit that your new tractor, although not complicated, is a bit better than the old ones. I managed to inherit partial ownership in an old 8N and a Ford 5000. I'm honestly scared to touch either. With me being only part owner, I'm sure something would break on them if I ever used either. I tried both exactly once. They both promptly broke and cost me several hundred dollars in repair costs along with a lot of my time. They may be oldies with some sentimental value, but as far as real working machines, I think all the work has been used up in them.

 

[_RaT_]

I'm outta here.

There are too few open minded persons to even hold a good debate. The 4wd crowd is absolutely opposed to considering the fact that there may be 2wd applications where price is a discerning factor. The stale old argument keeps getting thrown back.. 4wd does it all.. and price is no option.

Price is deffinately a concern for many people..

later... no point in debating if there is no debate...

(P.S. On the other hand.. I agree with all the reasons =for= having 4wd, or 'pro's .. etc. It's those that can't see the other side of the coin that are perplexing me... )

What, your still here?

 

[Soundguy]

I've made no further posts on the 4wd vs 2wd subject... just bantered a bit about a few ford tractors.

However.. I guess I'll remedy the situation...

Soundguy

 

[_RaT_]

I've made no further posts on the 4wd vs 2wd subject... just bantered a bit about a few ford tractors.

However.. I guess I'll remedy the situation...

Soundguy

Thats OK Chris, your posts most often add to TBN whereas mine rarely do. I know there has been some fun at your expense, but it was just that. I know 2WD still has its place.

 

[machmeter62]

Age has little to do with it.. I have both an 8n and a 5000.. both are still workers.

A few weeks ago i had the 8n on a 5' hog mowing in weeds that were above my head. I had her at max throttle to keep the rpms up.. she ran great. She is also my seed and fertalizer spreadr tractor.

The 5000 pulls a 10' mower, and a trailer occasionally.. and totes round bales on a rear spear....

The particular units you had may have been used up.. but the machines in general.. both the 8n and the 5000 were very robust. The 5000 was perhaps one of fords best tractors.

Here's a recent pic of my 5000 with the 10' mower on her... she's a -real- workhorse... Still with oem lucas 12v generator...

Soundguy

What year and what hp is the Ford 5000; it looks in absolutely mint condition, or did you just finish a restoration!? The true definition of TLC!

 

[john_bud]

If I could be allowed, I would like to continue flogging the deceased equine.

Somebody said that a smaller/lower hp 4wd could do the same job as well as a larger 2wd. Not always. I started plowing a 20 acre field with a M6800 Kubota w/FEL, 4wd, loaded tires, etc. Rated at 62pto hp. Pulling 3 16" ford bottom plow. After the first couple of hours, I parked the Kubota and hooked the plow to my 2wd 6610 Ford. Rated at 72pto hp, just 15% more than the Kubota. The Ford, hands down, was smoother, faster, had less wheel slip, was much more comfortable to operate. The Ford would have pulled the 4 bottom plow.

Moving 1200 lb bales. One on the loader and one on the 3pt hitch=a real adventure on the Kubota. When you tried to pick up one of the bales on the loader without one on the rear, the rear wheels cleared the ground. Not so on the NH 6640, rated at 14 more hp. It handled the bales easily. Needless to say, I wasn't really impressed with the Kubota.

As for the original poster: the key phrase is "I want 4wd". He should get it. But he would be limiting himself very little, if at all, with a 2wd drive machine of about 10 more hp.

Redlevel,

Interesting story and I'm sure it's 100% accurate. Do you know the difference in weight between the two tractors? I have the impression for some reason that the 6610 is about 2500# heavier than the M6800. Just curious.

jb

On edit:

Just thought to check on tractordata.com. It lists the 6600 as lighter than the M6800. Interesting.

 

[JoeinTX]

"Somebody said that a smaller/lower hp 4wd could do the same job as well as a larger 2wd. Not always."

I said something similar to this, but, with very real caveates.

"I started plowing a 20 acre field with a M6800 Kubota w/FEL, 4wd, loaded tires, etc. Rated at 62pto hp. Pulling 3 16" ford bottom plow. After the first couple of hours, I parked the Kubota and hooked the plow to my 2wd 6610 Ford. Rated at 72pto hp, just 15% more than the Kubota. The Ford, hands down, was smoother, faster, had less wheel slip, was much more comfortable to operate. The Ford would have pulled the 4 bottom plow."

And here comes the differences between 2/4wd when considering weight and mass. Your Kubota 6800 comes in at 4610lbs..........the Ford 6610 is 7264lbs. The 2600lb difference is huge in application regardless of HP or FWD.

A Kubota will throw a large amount of horsepower but will it's lighter build match the transmission of power to the ground of simlar units...?

Not always

 

[Dargo]

Age has little to do with it.. I have both an 8n and a 5000.. both are still workers.

By the picture, I can tell they are the same unit but, believe me, they do not look the same. The 5000 in the family here has always sat outside uncovered. Also, it has an FEL and BH on it. It was parked for years with the cylinders on each exposed. Now they are all rusted. After several hours of trying to get it started, both ends leaked very badly and had no power at all. The gas tank was leaking gas on my feet and on top of the engine, etc. etc. The 8N isn't as bad, but everything on it is extremely loose; steering, pedals, tranny, front end, and anything else that moves. The 3 pt. hitch will only stay up for about 2 or 3 seconds. Also, I think I mentioned that there is also an old Ferguson, but it has a rod sticking through the side of the block, yet it still turns over; without moving that rod. Broken crank as well?

Anyway, the other part owner thinks they are worth a fortune. As I said, each cost me time and money to just to move them. He thinks the old 5000 is worth $6000, the 8N $3500, and the Ferguson $2500. And, that is "as is", in their current condition. Personally, I think he's nuts. Right now they are just yard ornaments since nobody is willing to pay anywhere close that much for them and he refuses to sell them for any less.

 

[Soundguy]

Wow.. so your's is a gas job. I wouldn't mind ownig a gas 5000. Mines diesel. The gas units are rated at 71 net hp at 2100 rpm. The diesel are rated at 70 net hp at 2100 rpm. The gas pto hp is 67.2 at rated rpm, and 67.3 at rated rpm for a diesel. That is for the late diesel.. etc. Mine is the late one .. 1975.

The rusty hyd cyls. well.. those are a loss.. not much to do for them. Leaky fuel valves ont he thousand seris are common.. valves go fo 25-40$

Here's a before pic of my unit. It had always sat outside an uncovered as well...

Soundguy

By the picture, I can tell they are the same unit but, believe me, they do not look the same. The 5000 in the family here has always sat outside uncovered. Also, it has an FEL and BH on it. It was parked for years with the cylinders on each exposed. Now they are all rusted. After several hours of trying to get it started, both ends leaked very badly and had no power at all. The gas tank was leaking gas on my feet and on top of the engine, etc. etc. The 8N isn't as bad, but everything on it is extremely loose; steering, pedals, tranny, front end, and anything else that moves. The 3 pt. hitch will only stay up for about 2 or 3 seconds. Also, I think I mentioned that there is also an old Ferguson, but it has a rod sticking through the side of the block, yet it still turns over; without moving that rod. Broken crank as well?

Anyway, the other part owner thinks they are worth a fortune. As I said, each cost me time and money to just to move them. He thinks the old 5000 is worth $6000, the 8N $3500, and the Ferguson $2500. And, that is "as is", in their current condition. Personally, I think he's nuts. Right now they are just yard ornaments since nobody is willing to pay anywhere close that much for them and he refuses to sell them for any less.

 

[Dargo]

To stay a little on topic, all three are 2wd. Honestly, I had no idea that the 5000 had that much hp! And, yes, it is most certainly a gas burner; as are the other two. Still, in the condition I described, (which is far worse than what yours was when you bought it) don't you think the prices I mentioned are just way high? To me, I would think that being gas powered would severely kill the value of the 5000.

 

[Glowplug]

Umm, we seem to have strayed off topic a bit. That's okay though. Carry on guys.

 

[Soundguy]

To stay a little on topic, all three are 2wd. Honestly, I had no idea that the 5000 had that much hp! And, yes, it is most certainly a gas burner; as are the other two. Still, in the condition I described, (which is far worse than what yours was when you bought it) don't you think the prices I mentioned are just way high? To me, I would think that being gas powered would severely kill the value of the 5000.

I paid 6800$ for my diesel, in the condition you saw it. I have seen them .. working.. with good paint for that price ange.. and almost had bought one for 8000$ that had been totally rebuilt head to toe.. no bolt left unturned.. etc..

I've seen them go for 3500$ 'ran when parked' to about 5000$ range.. for really beat but cranks and runs.

These are all diesel with wide fronts and 8spd trannies mind you.

There were narrow fronts... gas engines, and 10 spd SOS trannies.

Here are the big issues:

Power steering... there was an old and new style... old style gets loose.. and is impossible to adjust at the front bolster due to no parts.. only recourse is to buy parts for the new style... a tad spendy.. but then.. what ain't? Pow steer pump old and new oem style is no longer serviced.. however there is a quite adequate repalcement that works fine.

I'd rather have a working ( not loose ) manual steering unit than the old style power steering.. if you catch my drift..

Narrow front... no inherrent problems.. just real rare.. and not as usefull for most work.. be a great collector item...

10spd SOS... Most of the sos problems were worked out before the 5000 came out.. however.. the lack of shops that will work on the SOS.. the high degree of maintenance it requires to keep it working, and the general fear and loathing of most ford owners of the SOS.. caused by many early SOS failures.. really tends to devalue a 5000 with a 10speed. Though.. if ya got one and it works good.. just keep it maintained.. and it will probably continue working good. main problem.. is that you can abuse just about every other part of the tractor and it will work fine for 30 ys.. .. however.. the SOS tranny is real picky...

Gas engine.. not as common to find one... have to look for parts but they are out there... Biggest problem is the manifold... no gas manifolds exist outside of salvage units.. or collectors. There was an article in an antique mag on how to make a gas manifold using a diesel, and lots of brazing, cutting and welding...

I wouldn't mind owing a gasser for collector purposes ( a NF would be nice too ). The gassers were a tad easier to start in the cold due to much lower compression..

To the original question.. a super beat 5000 gasser with non working attachments.. yep.. 6k$ is abit high.

Soundguy

 

[machmeter62]

I paid 6800$ for my diesel, in the condition you saw it. I have seen them .. working.. with good paint for that price ange.. and almost had bought one for 8000$ that had been totally rebuilt head to toe.. no bolt left unturned.. etc..

I've seen them go for 3500$ 'ran when parked' to about 5000$ range.. for really beat but cranks and runs.

These are all diesel with wide fronts and 8spd trannies mind you.

There were narrow fronts... gas engines, and 10 spd SOS trannies.

Here are the big issues:

Power steering... there was an old and new style... old style gets loose.. and is impossible to adjust at the front bolster due to no parts.. only recourse is to buy parts for the new style... a tad spendy.. but then.. what ain't? Pow steer pump old and new oem style is no longer serviced.. however there is a quite adequate repalcement that works fine.

I'd rather have a working ( not loose ) manual steering unit than the old style power steering.. if you catch my drift..

Narrow front... no inherrent problems.. just real rare.. and not as usefull for most work.. be a great collector item...

10spd SOS... Most of the sos problems were worked out before the 5000 came out.. however.. the lack of shops that will work on the SOS.. the high degree of maintenance it requires to keep it working, and the general fear and loathing of most ford owners of the SOS.. caused by many early SOS failures.. really tends to devalue a 5000 with a 10speed. Though.. if ya got one and it works good.. just keep it maintained.. and it will probably continue working good. main problem.. is that you can abuse just about every other part of the tractor and it will work fine for 30 ys.. .. however.. the SOS tranny is real picky...

Gas engine.. not as common to find one... have to look for parts but they are out there... Biggest problem is the manifold... no gas manifolds exist outside of salvage units.. or collectors. There was an article in an antique mag on how to make a gas manifold using a diesel, and lots of brazing, cutting and welding...

I wouldn't mind owing a gasser for collector purposes ( a NF would be nice too ). The gassers were a tad easier to start in the cold due to much lower compression..

To the original question.. a super beat 5000 gasser with non working attachments.. yep.. 6k$ is abit high.

Soundguy

Nice job on the restoration, but anything with the Lucas name for electrical componets, I wouldn't use as bragging rights! I had a 52' MG/TD with it and had as many miles towing and pushing, as driving it, because of the Lucas igniton. Many others had the same problem. Is your engine a PerKins Diesel, which I think is one of the best!

 

[Soundguy]

Ford engine.. all the way...

Lucas gennies.. though not awesome or rugged.. do work. the lucas VR is a little flaky though. However.. a ford regulator from a hundred series diesel will make a good retrofit if you watch the charging amps.. as the oem lucas charge limited at 20a.. whereas the ford will charge limit at 25a.. thus you can easilly overwork the genny if you mix-n-match regulators.

Since this is a diesel.. the lucas electrics don't scare me as bad.. I know she'll get home.. even if the lamps don't work..

Soundguy

 

[Turbys_1700]

Soundguy,
That's a nice 5000 you got there. Those tractors were studs. Lots of farmers around here used them back in the day. We never owned one but I always wanted one to go with our D-17's. With pop selling AC's, well...you understand.

 

[Dargo]

To the original question.. a super beat 5000 gasser with non working attachments.. yep.. 6k$ is abit high.

Soundguy

Oh, oh, you just made me think of something! And, it's going to make you laugh!! When we went to move that old 5000 into one of the old barns on their property is when I discovered that the FEL and BH were shot. They only raised briefly and then spewed fluid everywhere. Anyway, I used my tractor to drag it into the barn. Guess what?! That old beast is heavy!! My tractor sat on concrete and spun the rear tires, so.....I had to use 4wd. I was then able to drag it into the barn where it sits to this day.

Now, tell me you didn't laugh at that one! And, it was even on topic!

 

[SkyPup]

LOL, you had to use 4WD to move that 2WD clunker!