4707 3 Point adjustment issues

[WranglerX]

There is no spec, no standard. There are hopeful ideas about standards but there is no standard. The industry generally has embraced ideas about diametrical standards but even that is mostly serendipity. It's just dumb luck that they are fractionals

AND there is this....

 

[MinnesotaMorg]

There is no spec, no standard. There are hopeful ideas about standards but there is no standard. The industry generally has embraced ideas about diametrical standards but even that is mostly serendipity. It's just dumb luck that they are fractionals

There is a spec/standard. If there wasn't - then there wouldn't be much point in declaring what category it is. Also see above, ISO and ASABE both have standards listed.

A question I did not see a answer to is what is diameter of pins supplied with cutter....

I don't know the measurement but they fit my ball ends perfectly. The pins are 100% cat 2.

 

[Raul-02]

There is a spec/standard. If there wasn't - then there wouldn't be much point in declaring what category it is. Also see above, ISO and ASABE both have standards listed.

I hear ya. But ISO and ASABE notwithstanding, if manufacturers blow 'em off then there is not, in fact, a standard.
I say it's more of a suggestion than a standard.

 

[Raul-02]

View attachment 751661
AND there is this....

I get it I do. but there are some problems.
1) The publishers of that "standard" don't have any authority to make such a declaration. They can say it, but that's it. It's just words in the wind.
2) There's no enforcement, so there can be no standard no matter how boldly they print the word "standards" on the book. Back to the authority problem.
3) We don't seem to care enough to make it our first and threshold question. We buy the nonconforming implements anyway. The consumer is the only authority and we seem disinterested. So there's no standard.

The dialog has to go like this:
Dealer: I have this Great XYZ Implement that'll do what you want."
Consumer: "Does it conform to ASE -278.6? If it doesn't, I won't touch it no matter how well built you say it is."
And that conversation Never takes place.


If manufacturers ignore it, then it is at best a suggestion.
I look at it like this, and for example, I offer the following:
There are all manner of "National" holidays that are most definitely not national. There is a book (recently there are two) published by a concern that records these "national holidays." The Wisconsin cheesemakers paid for a "national Wisconsin cheese day" so it's in the book, I could get one for me "National Raul-02 day"
But none of these days are actual real holidays, they are just entries in a book run by a private company. They exist for marketing purposes, so the Cheese Sales men can have something to talk about.

Standards like this are in the same class of things that are not in fact real.
Or stated another way Just because some bozo put it in a book doesn't make it a standard.
With no way to enforce it, it is meaningless.

Lubricating Oils meet the standards because they pay a stiff price for failing to do so. No one will buy them if they don't. And they can bask in the pride of adhering closely to the standards.

But Farm Implements? If we really cared, we'd boycott any manufacturer that doesn't adhere to 'em. It'd be the first question we asked our dealers. If Company X put out one single nonconforming impliment, the whole of America would regard their entire lineup with dark distrust.

But we don't do that, so in the real world, outside of those pages, there is no standard.

As an aside, most of the standards we have today arose from military acquisition. The military wouldn't buy a nonconforming product. Armies around the world tend not to get into farming.

 

[MinnesotaMorg]

I see your point about authority. Either way I'm pushing back on the manufacturer. It would appear it starts and stops with what I (the consumer) is willing to accept and I don't accept an implement that doesn't fit on my tractor.

 

[WranglerX]

MinnesotaMorg​

I get it I do. but there are some problems.
1) The publishers of that "standard" don't have any authority to make such a declaration. They can say it, but that's it. It's just words in the wind.
2) There's no enforcement, so there can be no standard no matter how boldly they print the word "standards" on the book. Back to the authority problem.
3) We don't seem to care enough to make it our first and threshold question. We buy the nonconforming implements anyway. The consumer is the only authority and we seem disinterested. So there's no standard.

The dialog has to go like this:
Dealer: I have this Great XYZ Implement that'll do what you want."
Consumer: "Does it conform to ASE -278.6? If it doesn't, I won't touch it no matter how well built you say it is."
And that conversation Never takes place.


If manufacturers ignore it, then it is at best a suggestion.
I look at it like this, and for example, I offer the following:
There are all manner of "National" holidays that are most definitely not national. There is a book (recently there are two) published by a concern that records these "national holidays." The Wisconsin cheesemakers paid for a "national Wisconsin cheese day" so it's in the book, I could get one for me "National Raul-02 day"
But none of these days are actual real holidays, they are just entries in a book run by a private company. They exist for marketing purposes, so the Cheese Sales men can have something to talk about.

Standards like this are in the same class of things that are not in fact real.
Or stated another way Just because some bozo put it in a book doesn't make it a standard.
With no way to enforce it, it is meaningless.

Lubricating Oils meet the standards because they pay a stiff price for failing to do so. No one will buy them if they don't. And they can bask in the pride of adhering closely to the standards.

But Farm Implements? If we really cared, we'd boycott any manufacturer that doesn't adhere to 'em. It'd be the first question we asked our dealers. If Company X put out one single nonconforming impliment, the whole of America would regard their entire lineup with dark distrust.

But we don't do that, so in the real world, outside of those pages, there is no standard.

As an aside, most of the standards we have today arose from military acquisition. The military wouldn't buy a nonconforming product. Armies around the world tend not to get into farming.

You point is well taken, but if industry creates a standard, and a manufacturer does not recognize it or built to it its on the manufacturers shoulders...

Got to agree with MinnesotaMorg... Push it back to manufacturer...

​

 

[MinnesotaMorg]

Good news.

I thought I was going to encounter pushback about returning the unit, but it seems that my message eventually made it to the owner who is going to make a design change and trade out my unit.

I have to say it's a bit relieving that I got someone in the industry to agree with me that something isn't quite right here. After getting enough pushback you start to think you're the crazy one.

I hope this makes the product better going forward, and I guess this is now a good example of pushing back on manufacturers to help enforce standards.

 

[WranglerX]

Waiting patiently for final outcome...

 

[Dmacleo]

Good news.

I thought I was going to encounter pushback about returning the unit, but it seems that my message eventually made it to the owner who is going to make a design change and trade out my unit.

I have to say it's a bit relieving that I got someone in the industry to agree with me that something isn't quite right here. After getting enough pushback you start to think you're the crazy one.

I hope this makes the product better going forward, and I guess this is now a good example of pushing back on manufacturers to help enforce standards.

awesome, keep us informed please.

 

[timmar]

I think I would drill a new hole in the part that attaches to the tractor 90 degrees from the other hole. Maybe split the difference from the end. That would give more flexibility.

View attachment 751529

So I finally got back out to my new (2022 mfg and June 2022 delivery) 4707. After going through this thread I wanted to see just what I have for adjustment. On mine, another hole would not bring the lower bars closer together because the limiting part is the swivel eye on the tractor end of the sway link. Even with the pin removed, the lower bar won't go any closer to center because the swivel eye does not have enough rotation. My lower bars are about 32" apart when there is still some play in the eyes. At 31" everything is bound tight.

It really looks like the geometry (not the pins) was designed for Cat 3 and the adjustments barely get you to Cat 2 spacing.