4330 vs. 4630

[Marooned]

My first post, so bear with me. I've been watching TBN for several months now and love it. Frankly, it's been quite addicting.

Anyway, I'm new to tractors (only experience has been on my father-in-law's old Ford 800) and am considering purchasing either the 4330 or 4630 w/ fel and have noticed on the specs that the only difference is Engine & PTO horsepower. Is basically 3 more hp on the 4630 worth the extra $$'s?

I plan to use on 17 acres around my home that needs alot of brush / small tree clearing, moving dirt piles, dragging large tree trunks, shredding, disking to plant a small patch of oats or rye grass for deer, some box blading & eventually some type of pasture sprayer. Also will occasionally shred around roads on an additional 75 acres & maybe spray a few meadows on same.

Additional equipment I intend to purchase with tractor is 6' medium duty shredder, 6' box blade & 6' disk (Hay King Brand).

Based on these uses & equipment, do I need the extra 3 hp?

Thanks in advance for any advice!

 

[_RaT_]

I personally would not pay the extra for what basically amounts to the exact same tractor with a slight bump in engine performance on the L4630. If you need a cab then I think your decision is made. Save the extra money and get the L4330. If folks can tell the difference in a few extra HP's in the L4630, they are already undersized to begin with.

 

[Marooned]

No cab needed, I live in S.E. TX, humid & hot most of year. My place has quite a few trees on portions of it and cab would make it difficult to navigate through them.

Question: FEL performance & PTO capacities should be the same on either tractor, right?

 

[texbaylea]

Just a comment. A cab will be no more obstructive than a canopy on the ROPS and I consider a canopy a necessity in our climate. Helps keep the sun off. I would have bought an L3430HSTC if the budget would have stretched that far. A/C would be heavenly in our climate.

Vernon

 

[Marooned]

Vernon,
Yep, AC would be nice, but cab is not in budget. I'm gonna be stretching it as it is, my financial advisor put limitations on me (if you know what & who I mean!). That's why I'm looking to maybe save a little by going 4330. I'm just a little apprehensive about going for less HP. The general consesus on TBN seems to be "get the most HP you can afford". 4630 could be had, but might have to give up am implement to get it.

 

[JoeR]

Now that I have a cab on my tractor, all my friends and relatives are willing to help me do tractor work. My wife suddenly wants to help now too! No dirty clothes or sweating means less work for her too since my kids like to help and we generate plenty of laundry. I don't know how I survived so many hot summers with dust, sweat, and the smell of diesel covering me. I would sometimes take two to three showers a day along with clothes changing just to stay dry! I don't mind sweating, but when my underwear and feet get wet, I gotta change! Now with the A/C, I have less fatigue and can operate for hours in the 90F+ heat and 80%+ humidity.

Just my two cents, I know you can't justify it, but keep it in mind.

Good luck,

Joe

 

[SWB]

I think I read in one of the posts that although you get 3 more HP, you don't get a bump up in torque.

 

[Marooned]

I read the same post. Not sure where they got the torque figures from. I will ask dealer about torque specs when I go to talk w/ him to verify. Probably will be next week sometime though.

 

[jmc]

Marooned,

At the bottom of this post is a copy of my previous post describing how I used to use my old Ford 1920- around 34 HP gross. Basically I maintained 187 overgrown acres with it and a 5 ft bushhog. Now I own an L4330 and it will run circles around that Ford. I would be surprised if you needed more tractor than the 4330.

Both the 4330 and the 4630 have the same hydraulic pump and the same loader so even though the 4630 has more HP, that pump is still only going to pump so fast. The extra HP may help bushhogging extemely thick weeds but if its just occasional, you can slow down or overlap more.

John

<font color="red">
cuzncletus,

In the fall of 1988, I bought 187 acres of multifloral rose, johnson grass, 16 foot tall horseweeds, thorntrees and woods, about 200 miles away. It looked manageable.

The following summer, once I saw it grown up, I bought a 1920 with a 5 foot ford rotary cutter. Several years later, a local oldtimer, who had rented that ground off and on for 50 years, said it was the best he'd ever seen that farm. Of course it was because of that incredible tractor/cutter and a lot of seat time.

Take the 20 acres of bottom ground- the most fertile part of the farm. The horseweeds were so tall that on the first pass through, the tops of the weeds on either side of the pass would reclose to form a tunnel you could drive thru! Hidden in that mess were downed trees, washed up logs, and eroded groundhog holes. I learned to resist the temptation of mowing in 4x4 because it would climb up on those obstacles before you could react. Never the less, the 1920 would grind all that up at a slow walking speed, all day long. You just had to stop and clear the radiator screen once in a while.

I've also hit many solid limestone outcroppings and stumps, wrapped up wire fence in the cutter and there is no apparent damage. That farm is gone but I've still got the tractor.

John
</font>

 

[Marooned]

John,

Thanks for the vote of confidence in the 4330.

 

[jdavis3099]

I purchased the 4630 because the dealer had it in stock. The 4330 should be the better value. The 4630 makes its extra horsepower by turning the engine 100 RPMs more at rated power. The 4330 should be quieter to run at rated speed and should use less fuel. The engines are the same size so torque and power should be identical until that last 100 RPM. The units are identical except for the extra engine RPM. That said, either tractor should handle 6 foot implements without a problem. If you need to go larger that 6 foot you will need a larger tractor than the 4630.

 

[CT_Tree_Guy]

Larry -

With all apologies to 4630 owners, including the previous poster, the 4630 is my least favorite of all the Grand L's. For me, the 3430, 3830, 4330 and 5030 are the most desirable ones.

The 4630 has the same displacement as the 4330, and I think the extra 3 HP is gained through larger injectors. But torque is largely what tractors are all about, and I'm not sure that even at 2700 rpm's the 4630 develops any extra torque over the 4330. Typically, maximum torque isn't generated at maximum rpm's. Like the 3130, the 4630 seems to have been engineered just to fill a spot in the HP lineup.

I'd get the 4330, which is a lot of tractor, before I got the 4630. Maybe use the savings for an implement, or something nice for your financial advisor. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Good luck, John D.

 

[Marooned]

JDavis & CT Tree Guy,

Thanks for the response! I just got home from visiting a dealer about 30 miles from my home. Took the wife with me to look @ tractors. Maybe you guys should do this next time you visit the dealer. Before I took her, she was dead set against spending anymore than we had to. Now she is suggesting I move up the HST in lieu of DT... Who'd a thunk it?

Now I have a whole new set of circumstances to consider, as I never thought HST was a possibility.

Dealer let me drive DT & HST models, definitely like the HST better. But now I am loosing even more PTO HP vs DT. Maybe I'm making this HP thing too big a deal. It's not like I'm gonna pull a bat-wing shredder or anything that big.

Any thoughts.

 

[_RaT_]

I think HP is a bigger issue with you then it needs to be. Your picking fly poop out of the pepper. There are many situations where the incredible control over speed and the instant response you get from it more then offset the few extra HPs that are eaten up by the HST system and consequently given back to earth in the form of heat.

Another thought. Ol Mike (AKA GSXR 1100) and Skypup talk about the benefits of synthetic lubricants, perhaps immediately doing a fluid change to full synthetic all around will make a L4330 actually outperform a mineral or "dino" oil based L4630. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Food for thought.

 

[Marooned]

Rat,

Your probably right. My wife tells me all the time that I "overanalyze" things.

Does anyone have any thoughts on the price I got from the dealer that I visited today:

4330 HST w/ R1's (filled)
853 Loader w/ skid steer QA
$23,190 (dealer located in southeast TX)

I'm going out of town tomorrow and on my way out, I plan on stopping at another dealer to see what kind of deal they will offer. I'll let ya'll know how it turns out.

 

[_RaT_]

At these prices, you deserve the right to over analyze. Its part of the fun. After a few hundred hours you will laugh about it. In the mean time, enjoy! Your price is very reasonable.

 

[CT_Tree_Guy]

Long post - yow! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Larry -

Hang on to that financial advisor, she sounds like a real "keeper"!! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Do you know how many guys would give up their front end loader for a woman who says "honey, why don't you get the more expensive one"??!! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

OK, now that you've opened the door for me, here goes. I was biting my tongue before, because I've taken some deserved heat in the past for my budget-stretching advice, but I don't think I'm going to be out of line here. (I'm SURE someone will correct me if I'm wrong). /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

You expressed some concern about whether or not 41 net hp/36 pto hp (4330 DT) is enough. It would probably be fine for what you're going to do, especially if you went with a gear tranny like the FST (in the DT), or a tranny you haven't mentioned and is also GREAT for the tough stuff you have in mind, and is much easier to operate, the GST.

Having said that ... and anyone who's read some of my posts will see this one coming right down Broadway .... the next step up from the 4330 is the 5030 to my way of thinking, as expressed in my previous post. And the 5030 is not just a 4330 with a bigger engine. The 5030: has 220 lbs. more 3ph lift, a longer wheelbase, 1" more ground clearance, a stronger front axle (I believe), is 5" longer, has a wider stance, has a larger fuel tank, has 8-bolt rear wheels vs. 6-bolt, has wider front tires, takes category 1 or 2 implements, has more hydraulic flow, weighs 230 lbs. more, and has 11% more torque than the 4330. If you're at all concerned that you need or want more power, the 5030 has it to spare, even with the hydro.

You mentioned dragging logs as one of your tasks, and the extra 3ph lift could come in handy. Ditto the front axle with the 853 loader and the grapple you're going to buy. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Also the extra weight, wheelbase and power, both engine and PTO.

There's some conventional wisdom that I keep hearing that says "get the most hp you can in a given tractor line". Since I see the Grand L's as two lines, the 3 smaller, and the 3 larger, i see the 4330 at the bottom and the 5030 at the top. (The 4330 weighs about 200 lbs. more than the 3830, is about 4 inches longer, and takes the bigger loader, so the front axle is probably a little beefier). That's why I see two "tiers" in the Grand L line, with the top 3 a little bigger and heavier, hence the 723 vs. 853 loaders.

As for the HST: I have it, I love it, I wouldn't give it up. But my tractor has one task: getting logs and brush out of people's yards, in tight quarters. But for the type of work you're doing, the GST would be a fine choice too, maybe even better. Plus, you won't lose the 1.5 or so PTO hp if you go with the GST. (Whatever tractor you get, I hope you don't get the FST).

See some of the posts by SkyPup and others about GST transmissions, they ALMOST had me wishing for one, but not for what I do.

HOWEVER: if you're not going to be plowing fields all day, getting a 5030 would make all of your HP worries go away, and the power loss from the HST would be a total non-issue. The 5030 with hydro is amazing and incredibly fun to operate. You will never run out of power, just traction.

Lastly, cost. My 5030 HST with 853 loader, QA, R4's, and HD bucket was $24,950. Yep, a good deal, but I didn't hold a gun to anyone's head, or even haggle. You might get a 5030 GST for 23 and change. Not WAY over budget, although I'd be curious to know what kinds of numbers your dealer was throwing around. ** [Oops, you told us in your previous post - hmm, so the joys of having 50 diesel horses at the command of your right foot might not be so out of reach, if you beat your dealer up a little /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif One thing I left out of this post is that the 5030HST is just an astonishing piece of machinery, with a "fun factor" that is off the charts, and is amazingly productive] **

If you get a 4330, that's a home run too, or at least a stand-up triple. Just giving you some of my thoughts (lucky you). /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif Again, if you go with the 4330 I'd make it a GST, or an HST if you think you want the INCREDIBLE ease of operation and control that it offers, at the expense of a little bit of power, and slightly higher maintenance.

Also, there's another bit of conventional wisdom that says if you're going to be doing a LOT of heavy ground-engaging work, or even bush-hogging day in and day out, a gear tractor might be better. The hydro would get a little hot on a hot day, but it's nothing a good external oil cooler couldn't cure. The loss of PTO hp (around around 4-5%) is more of an issue.

My last point (HOOOOORRRRAAAYYYYYY!!!!!!) /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif involves my "Theory of the Conservation of Money as it pertains to buying a tractor". I've said this in one other post, but I'm going to repeat it. In the First Law of Thermodynamics, energy is neither created or destroyed, it just changes from one form to another. Same with tractors, except substitute "energy" with "money". Going to the Bahamas is spending (destroying) money. Buying a tractor is converting money into a tractor. Your money is still there, it's just in a different form. When/if you sell the tractor, you get most of it back anyway, especially with a Kubota. You will have had the use of the tractor for relatively little money in the long run, and probably even made money with the increased value to your property and not having had to pay people to do things that you can now easily do yourself, and have fun doing it. (Hey, is there a space limit on posts?).

SkyPup just made that observation about the increased property value, which really steamed me because I'd been thinking about it for a while now regarding another thread, and never said it. He who hesitates is lost I guess. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif But it's so true, tractors often do pay for themselves. Mine sure did. Some might say, yeah, but you use it in your business. To which I might reply, hey, we're all in business. The business of making our lives fuller, more satisfying, more rewarding, and easier, while getting ahead at the same time.

OK, that's it - but just remember, YOU <font color="blue">Any thoughts? </font> asked for it! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Good luck, John D.

 

[Marooned]

CT Tree Guy,

I was hoping (and somewhat expecting) you would reply to the last few posts on this subject. Thanks for the input!

Convincing her to go "another $2k or so" above and beyond the cost of upgrading to HST might be a stretch. I actually drove the 5030 HST today and it was an impressive piece of equipment, without a doubt.

But honestly, I actually felt more comfortable driving the slightly smaller machines. As I mentioned in my very first post, I do have quite a few trees to dodge and I think the size of the 4330 (& 4630 because it's the same) may be a bit easier in doing that. I think the 4630 is probably out, based on what you guys have been saying along with comments the dealer had about minimal HP increase not being noticeable.

I plan on going by a couple more dealerships on my way out of town on a business trip tomorrow. Want to look a little more @ the tractors and get more pricing. I'll let you know what kind of #'s I come back with. BTW, looks like you got an awesome deal on your 5030!

On a side note, what do you think about the HD bucket vs. standard bucket for FEL. I inquired @ dealer today, but he says the standard is a good bucket and has never had problems with them getting bent. He doesn't know me very well!! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Keep the thoughts coming! I'll check'em out when I get back in town.

Thanks,
Larry

 

[CT_Tree_Guy]

Larry -

The 4330 sounds like a slam-dunk then, you're going to love it I'm sure. I guess it's down to transmissions now, which way are you leaning?

I'd go with the HD bucket, what the heck. The usually have a rounded back too, that helps dirt slide out better.

I hear you about maneuverability, sometimes bigger isn't better! And the trees to dodge gives hydro one more vote.

Good luck and have fun shopping!

John

 

[Marooned]

I think we pretty much decided on HST. I didn't get to drive a GST today so I really can't say either way on it. I will try and drive one before final decision though.

Think in the end, I will still like HST. I also think I'll go for the HD bucket, that is what I wanted all along anyway.