425 wheel motor(s) problem?

[Modrob]

Latest episode: seems to be losing some power when on inclines (does great going downhill! ) and I have a lot more “whine” I think coming from the front one or both motors. And backing up on a steeper incline it almost won’t do now…am I looking at bad wheel motor issues?

 

[ponytug]

Possibly.

A couple of questions:

• When did the issue start to the best of your recollection?
• Any particular things stand out about when it started? E.g. post service, mowing, ...?
• Do you see any bubbles in the hydraulic tank after the machine has been running for a few minutes?
• How is your hydraulic oil? (Age, appearance, weight, etc.)
• Have you put a the tractor up on blocks and put a stethoscope on each motor to listen to it as it moves forward and in reverse?

All the best,

Peter

 

[Modrob]

Possibly.

A couple of questions:

• When did the issue start to the best of your recollection?
• Any particular things stand out about when it started? E.g. post service, mowing, ...?
• Do you see any bubbles in the hydraulic tank after the machine has been running for a few minutes?
• How is your hydraulic oil? (Age, appearance, weight, etc.)
• Have you put a the tractor up on blocks and put a stethoscope on each motor to listen to it as it moves forward and in reverse?

All the best,

Peter

Let’s see…I believe it’s whined just a little since I’ve been with it but considered it normal. The wife thought so too as she had run it years before me.
Nothing stands out…just seems that one day within last couple weeks it was noticeably louder running up and down our inclined driveway.
Haven’t looked for bubbles lately (I cleared some a while back when I changed fluid and filter) and haven’t used it very much since then. Oil looks pretty good—about like it did when I filled it.
No I haven’t hoisted it up yet but will. What am I listening for, in particular?
Many thanks .

 

[ponytug]

The bubbles might be from a leak in the suction line to the charge pump, often at the suction filter, as you have found out. There is also the possibility that another wheel motor hose is slightly open, though the fact it happens in forward and reverse makes me think it is a motor or pump issue. Any oil weeps, or leaks?

How many hours are on this 425?

With the tractor up on blocks, you can listen to each wheel motor. If one sounds loud or problematic, that's probably the one to go after. I use the front bucket to lift the front wheels off the ground and then put blocks back close to the rear wheels. Lowering the FEL a bit raises the back, and lets you get all four wheels up quickly. I use jack stands or 8x8s on mine.

How far are you from Tazewell?

All the best,

Peter

 

[oldnslo]

If you have an infrared heat gun check the housing temperatures after driving for awhile. If a motor is going bad it will be hotter than the others.

 

[Modrob]

If you have an infrared heat gun check the housing temperatures after driving for awhile. If a motor is going bad it will be hotter than the others.

I’ve been meaning to get one of those for a long time—now it’s a must-have.

 

[Modrob]

The bubbles might be from a leak in the suction line to the charge pump, often at the suction filter, as you have found out. There is also the possibility that another wheel motor hose is slightly open, though the fact it happens in forward and reverse makes me think it is a motor or pump issue. Any oil weeps, or leaks?

How many hours are on this 425?

With the tractor up on blocks, you can listen to each wheel motor. If one sounds loud or problematic, that's probably the one to go after. I use the front bucket to lift the front wheels off the ground and then put blocks back close to the rear wheels. Lowering the FEL a bit raises the back, and lets you get all four wheels up quickly. I use jack stands or 8x8s on mine.

How far are you from Tazewell?

All the best,

Peter

Thanks Peter…I’m hoping to get back to it in a few days (too many pressing matters ahead arrrggggg)
I’m about 2 hours or little less to Tazewell—I’ve thought about loading it up and taking to them for a thorough inspection and see if there’s “hope for the patient”…
Also, the wife told me that since they purchased in 2001 it’s had a hard working life up until about 2017…

 

[ponytug]

@Modrob Once I had ruled out the obvious items like a loose filter, if I were that close to Tazewell, I would load it up and drive it over, and let them have a look see about what might need fixing. After checking the things above, I would first give Terry in the service department at PT a call to have him weigh in on possibilities and ways to narrow it down.

All the best,

Peter

 

[Modrob]

@Modrob Once I had ruled out the obvious items like a loose filter, if I were that close to Tazewell, I would load it up and drive it over, and let them have a look see about what might need fixing. After checking the things above, I would first give Terry in the service department at PT a call to have him weigh in on possibilities and ways to narrow it down.

All the best,

Peter

Yes, I’ve considered taking it over…about 2 hours from me. (I visited them a couple years ago and enjoyed the tour and the folks.)
I’m afraid if they have a look, it’s likely I’ll hear “poor thing has been worked to death and better off with a new one”…

 

[ponytug]

Yes, I’ve considered taking it over…about 2 hours from me. (I visited them a couple years ago and enjoyed the tour and the folks.)
I’m afraid if they have a look, it’s likely I’ll hear “poor thing has been worked to death and better off with a new one”…

I'd start with Terry. He is very nice and helpful. I do not think that he is going to up sell you a new tractor. He has been very helpful in helping me get through a few issues with my tractor, which isn't a spring chicken, and it gets used almost daily, but it is by no means the hardest used tractor here.

All the best,

Peter

 

[Modrob]

Oh yes, I’ve met Terry as well, and he is a great fellow. (As well as other staff) I didn’t mean to imply an “upsell”, but after hearing the wife describe this tractor’s hard life since 2001, and seeing it myself, I honestly think they would have to recommend a new unit. (Of course I say that if they were figuring on refurbishing the unit—parts and labor…I could likely save some money by doing the labor myself but even still, I think the cost for parts would be very high.)
I guess I’m realizing that my ability to keep it up and running on a small budget is coming to a crossroads—it’s really simply put, about “wore out”. I’ll have to make the decision to spend a lot of money sooner than later—rebuild, buy used, or buy new. Last I checked—probably a couple years or so—a new one was about 16 grand to start. I recently looked at other “farm type” tractors and wow! A lot more! Me, I hate ever having to give up on something—I usually keep things going until I have no more need, or fall into a better situation . (I also have a 1950 IH Crawler/dozer that is in really great shape, but will soon need some high-dollar items…as well as a few other things to keep up for the wife)
Still, it would be interesting to have Terry and company give it a thorough look and advise. Which I’m sure I will—if I can just carve out the time to load it up and drive there…

 

[ponytug]

@Modrob I find that end of life decisions are always a challenge. I have trouble making peace with there being no right answers sometimes.

Good luck!

All the best,

Peter

 

[Modrob]

@Modrob I find that end of life decisions are always a challenge. I have trouble making peace with there being no right answers sometimes.

Good luck!

All the best,

Peter

Well I found a few minutes earlier tonight and got it up off the wheels. Cranked it up, and the wheels didn’t move. Operating the treadle and they worked fine. The reverse, would slightly hang a little, and the wheels would continue to move after letting off—but very slowly. A little stab on the forward pedal and they would be still. Operating both directions they sounded fine to my ears—I’ll get a stethoscope on them hopefully tomorrow…

 

[ponytug]

That sounds like progress!

I would have a listen at the pump as well, just in case.

All the best,

Peter

 

[MossRoad]

Well I found a few minutes earlier tonight and got it up off the wheels. Cranked it up, and the wheels didn’t move. Operating the treadle and they worked fine. The reverse, would slightly hang a little, and the wheels would continue to move after letting off—but very slowly. A little stab on the forward pedal and they would be still. Operating both directions they sounded fine to my ears—I’ll get a stethoscope on them hopefully tomorrow…

I think you said this is a 2001 model, correct? If so, you have the cable treadle with hydroback. Make sure the three grease fittings on the treadle are greased and free moving. Over the years, I'd get a lot of dirt and grass clippings in there through the front opening. So much so, that I permanently removed the side tunnel covers to make it easier to blow out and grease. The debris can make it hard for the treadle to get full swing forward or reverse. I'd imagine it might bum things up as well.

Just a thought. Good luck.

 

[ponytug]

One other thought: with the wheels off the ground, I'd try pushing/pulling out on the whole wheel, and try rocking it side to side, checking for any movement (worn bearings).

All the best,

Peter

 

[Modrob]

I think you said this is a 2001 model, correct? If so, you have the cable treadle with hydroback. Make sure the three grease fittings on the treadle are greased and free moving. Over the years, I'd get a lot of dirt and grass clippings in there through the front opening. So much so, that I permanently removed the side tunnel covers to make it easier to blow out and grease. The debris can make it hard for the treadle to get full swing forward or reverse. I'd imagine it might bum things up as well.

Just a thought. Good luck.

Oh yes! That had slipped my mind—in the past I had tried to get better access to that area to lube but I’m sure fell short. I’ll look into removing those side covers as well and give that area attention.
And yes, 2001 with cable, looks same as your picture. Thanks again!

 

[Modrob]

One other thought: with the wheels off the ground, I'd try pushing/pulling out on the whole wheel, and try rocking it side to side, checking for any movement (worn bearings).

All the best,

Peter

Thanks again. It was late last night and too many things had been consuming my mind. Sometime today I’ll try that too.

 

[MossRoad]

Oh yes! That had slipped my mind—in the past I had tried to get better access to that area to lube but I’m sure fell short. I’ll look into removing those side covers as well and give that area attention.
And yes, 2001 with cable, looks same as your picture. Thanks again!

If you remove those center tunnel side covers, be prepared for a possible dirt fest.

That's why I leave mine off.