425 versus typical skid steer

[familybowl]

I see almost every construction contractor has there own skid steer of some kind and always see someone zipping around on them. If I already have a decent mower for my seven acres which is mostly trees........ why wouldn't a skid steer do everything or more than a 425? I know the attatchments are more expensive and maybe they are little harder to put on but I don't think they are that much more difficult. Any comments?

 

[SnowRidge]

I think you are trying to compare apples to oranges. What is it you need to do on your seven acres, and what is the terrain like?

 

[Bob999]

I have a skid steer and a PT 1845. I consider the skidsteer unusable on turf because it will really tear up the ground if you do anything but move in a straight line.

On the other hand the skid steer is a much better digger and I much prefer it for snow clearing--the maneuverability with skid steering is great in tight places.

I find skid steer attachments easy to put on and you can get skid steers that have a hydraulic attachment that is comparable to the PT.

Generally skidsteers are considerably bigger and heavier than PT--and certainly that is true if you are comparing to the 425--which is a 1000 lb machine while all but the smallest skidsteers are 4000 lb +

 

[ponytug]

I agree with Bob.

They are very different animals. I have the 1445, which is closer to a skid steer (4000lbs, 45HP, 7' lift) than the 425, but even the 1445 is a long way from a skid steer.

Skid steers tend to have high lift, high power, especially high power hydraulic PTO/Aux, and are very compact. The downsides include their tendancy to tear up the ground, their high center of gravity, and general instability.

Skid steers also tend to be able to put all of their hydraulic horsepower to the task at hand, which gives them better dig in force, and better lift force. PT split the load between the PTO and the drive motor, so you will be able to do both. That is great for mowing on a hillside, but not so great if you want ultimate power to
a) dig in
b) drive an auger through rock
c) flip that boulder.
As an example, the 1445 has a 15gpm @3000psi PTO, which equates to about 27HP hydraulically, leaving 18HP +/- for drive horsepower, even at maximum hydraulic load.

But frankly, I wouldn't take a skid steer off of a basically level job site. The 1445 can climb 25-30 degrees (depending on traction) and can do a uturn on a 25 degree slope. I'm not saying that I find it relaxing(can you say "pucker factor"?), but the machine is rock solid and stable- which is why I bought the PT. If I can get the tractor out on the slope, I can get work done; if it sits in the barn, it might be great for impressing the neighbors, but it isn't earning its keep as a tool in my book. ("it" being a skid steer, D4, N-9, or that old Unimog.)

Just my $0.02...

All the best,

Peter

 

[MossRoad]

A skid steer won't mow the lawn very well and a PT425 won't lift material over the top of a large dumpster. Different tools for different jobs. You should identifiy the jobs you have to do then get the machine that will do them. In some folk's case, that is two machines.

What do you need to do that would require a skidsteer?

 

[PTWannaHave]

Old thread, but a locally listed JD 315 skidsteer with low hours at a decent price got me comparing its functionality, cost with implements, to my planned PT1430 purchase...

I would not be using the PT for mowing (on my flat terrain) because:

- I find 60" mower is (relatively) expensive
- not expected to perform as good as a cut as a dedicated mower (designed for that task)
- Probably not smart to drive over septic with machine as heavy as PT1430

Most of my chores for the PT would be lifting and digging oriented, such as moving material, trenches, tilling, snow in the winter.

Not having owned or operated either type of machine, is it fair to say that in my case described above, the only advantage to the PT is not ripping up the ground/grass when manoeuvering? (Assume total purchase cost to be the same.)

Thank-you in advance for the input,

 

[MossRoad]

Old thread, but a locally listed JD 315 skidsteer with low hours at a decent price got me comparing its functionality, cost with implements, to my planned PT1430 purchase...

I would not be using the PT for mowing (on my flat terrain) because:

- I find 60" mower is (relatively) expensive
- not expected to perform as good as a cut as a dedicated mower (designed for that task)
- Probably not smart to drive over septic with machine as heavy as PT1430

Most of my chores for the PT would be lifting and digging oriented, such as moving material, trenches, tilling, snow in the winter.

Not having owned or operated either type of machine, is it fair to say that in my case described above, the only advantage to the PT is not ripping up the ground/grass when manoeuvering? (Assume total purchase cost to be the same.)

Thank-you in advance for the input,

You have to look at the tires on the 1430 to figure out how many PSI the machine will put on the lawn, or over the septic. My guess is a skid steer will sink in well before a PT of similar weight will sink in.

What you described above I would not consider "digging oriented". I would call that "material handling". There's a huge difference. I think a PT would run circles around a skid steer for moving material from point A to point B, tilling and moving snow. Trenching? What kind of trenching? A wheel trencher - the PT would be superior. A chain-type trencher, I can't say, but my guess is the PT chain-type trencher is cheaper. However, may not be as rugged. Bucket trenching, like backhoe? Now you're into some money for an attachment.

Again, I'd say a PT is more lawn and garden friendly than a skid steer. And way more versatile.

 

[woodlandfarms]

I am all over my septic with no issues.

What does a skid steer have that a pt does not? Generally higher hydraulic rating. Ability to lift heavier higher. Ability to operate implements moving forward without going over top of the implement.

 

[PTWannaHave]

You have to look at the tires on the 1430 to figure out how many PSI the machine will put on the lawn, or over the septic. My guess is a skid steer will sink in well before a PT of similar weight will sink in.

Good point; a skidsteer of similar specs tends to be heavier, with less weight distribution. Apart from tearing grass during turns, it would also sink into soft ground sooner.

What you described above I would not consider "digging oriented". I would call that "material handling". There's a huge difference. I think a PT would run circles around a skid steer for moving material from point A to point B, tilling and moving snow.

Surprised here; I thought a PT and skidsteer would have been roughly equivalent for speed in accomplishing those tasks; both have QA plates operated from the driver's seat. I don't quite understand the PT advantage here.

Trenching? What kind of trenching? A wheel trencher - the PT would be superior. A chain-type trencher, I can't say, but my guess is the PT chain-type trencher is cheaper. However, may not be as rugged. Bucket trenching, like backhoe? Now you're into some money for an attachment.

Since I am not planning on a lot of trenching, I thought I would be happy with a mini-hoe and thin bucket. The latter is versatile for other uses, whereas I fear the wheel trencher or chain-type trencher would sit around most of the time and not be a good investment.

Again, I'd say a PT is more lawn and garden friendly than a skid steer. And way more versatile.

Agree on the lawn & garden friendliness; unsure about the versatility...

As Ponytug mentions, a PT gains a large advantage on sloped terrain, which I do not have...

Thanks for the input!

 

[PTWannaHave]

...Ability to operate implements moving forward without going over top of the implement.

Are you referring to 'PT pucker'...?!

 

[SpringHollow]

With ground engaging equipment, the PT can tend to act like it is trying to climb over the attachment when you exceed the PT's ability to dig in and the bucket etc is at the lowest height possible - I am grossly exaggerating but it does feel that way a little.

A PT is VERY efficient at moving things from one place to another and it is done very smoothly. It can actually be a pleasure for the first 20 trips or so. If the skid steer can lift way more, then the advantage starts to diminish but that would be like comparing a much larger PT to a small PT.

Most full size skid steers have the advantage of having high flow attachments. Low flow attachments are harder to find used. They also can usually lift more.

Ken

 

[ponytug]

If you are on a lawn, you don't want a skid steer.
Barnyard, construction site, who cares?

If you are serious about a skid steer, I'd go rent one first. I think that you will either be super pleased or not. It won't cost you a lot, and I think it will help you figure out what you really want/need better than the forum.

Bobcats run around 8000lbs, and lift 2600, the PT1430 runs about 4000 loaded, and lifts about 1300. If the vehicle weighs more, it can dig in more, or put differently, if it weighs more, it will dig in more. The PT wheels have a differential function that keeps them from tearing up the ground as they turn. Skid steers intentionally don't, so they really tear up the ground.

I think it is a question of horses for courses. Reading the forums should give you a pretty good sense for what people use and enjoy their tractors for. If a skid steer meets your needs, great! If not, well there are a few alternatives, and PT is one of many.

For me, the flexibility of the PT to change implements, and rapidly move material is truly exceptional. The articulation, plus being low to the ground really helps it excel compared to other vehicles. But we all use the machines differently. I mow about twice a year, but it is essential for me. I use my 1 cu yard bucket every week. I use my trencher once in a blue moon, but it more than paid for itself on its first job. Ditto my 0.5cu. yard rock bucket. Ditto my fence post driver. (I put up ~800 feet of three board wood fence by myself in ~3.5 days, starting by ripping the old fence out with the PT by lifting the old posts out of the ground.) The rototiller is super, but break-even is a tough call. The hitch plate was probably the last implement to break even for me. I've operated a bunch of tractors over the years, and for what I do now, the PT is a great tractor. If I were growing alfalfa again, I'd love to get my old Deutz back- it had about 25% less fuel usage than the other tractors. It was a beast of a workhorse. But it would be basically useless to me on my current property.

As I wrote earlier, I think it is all about horses for courses.

All the best,

Peter

 

[MossRoad]

Quote Originally Posted by MossRoad View Post

What you described above I would not consider "digging oriented". I would call that "material handling". There's a huge difference. I think a PT would run circles around a skid steer for moving material from point A to point B, tilling and moving snow."

Surprised here; I thought a PT and skidsteer would have been roughly equivalent for speed in accomplishing those tasks; both have QA plates operated from the driver's seat. I don't quite understand the PT advantage here.

For example, my PT425 will travel 8mph forward AND reverse. I would not want to be in a bobcat going over uneven terrain at 8 mph for several hours at a poke! Buckin Bronco! I helped with the renovation of a Little League ball park about 10 years ago. I moved maybe three 20 yard dump trucks of moon dust with my little PT425, 1/3 of a yard at a time, so, 60 yards x 3 trips per yard = 180 trips across a 4 diamond ballpark. If you have a full bucket of material, and you are traveling forward, in both a skid steer and a PT, both machines tend to buck forward if you hit bumps, which jolts the driver forward each time. If you go forward too far, the bucket will skid across the ground in front of you and you really go forward. However, in the PT, I just went backwards at a full 8mph with a fully loaded bucket. If I hit a bump, the PT would rock gently, the bucket would DRAG the ground like wheely bars and slide across the surface much more gently VS pushing it across the ground had I been going forward. So, after about 5 hours of this, I had it about half way done. No ruts in the ground, only some flattened grass in the gate areas at the fence. I was careful to no take the same path twice across the fields so the next day after watering the grass you could hardly tell I was there.

However.... and this is the case with all volunteer jobs... another dad, who thought my little machine was taking too long, brought out a Case 580 (loader with backhoe) because he was going to get it done faster! He proceeded to grab a full bucket of moon dust, drive around to the gate on our major league diamond and put to 6" deep ruts all the way from center field to 2nd base and didn't notice until he turned around and saw it. So, being the handy guy he is, he tried to flatten them out with the bucket...... it didn't end well. He damage three of the four fields and some other dads finally asked him to stop. I'm fairly certain a skid steer would have done similar damage.

Anyhow, I finished the job on day two, and they got me a load of black dirt. We filled in the ruts with the PT and replanted the grass. Lesson learned.

Construction equipment is for construction jobs.
Maintenance equipment is for maintenance jobs.
Agricultural equipment is for agriculture jobs.


The PT is a superb maintenace machine.
You have to decide which jobs you need to do most and get the machine that will do those jobs the best, with the least compromises, while sticking within your budget. Get out a paper and pencil, do a T chart with a pros and cons list for each job you want to do and decide which machine will do each task best. The one with the most votes may not be the one you thought you wanted. Or it may not be the one you can afford. It may be a PT. It may be a skid steer. It may be an Ag style Kubota or JD. You have to decide.

Hope that helps.

 

[MossRoad]

One more thing I should ad....

Before I had the PT, I had an IH2500b. Thats a 50 PTO HP tractor loader (dedicated FEL with a 3PT hitch on the back), full cab, filled tires, a 6' box blade and a 6' brush hog. Also a 55 gallon drum of concrete weight for the rear. It was about 8000#s. It could knock a house over. I pushed many 10-12" tress over by basically raising the bucket up 10' getting the tree to lean and then driving over it. I also cut in a road from the highway in a couple days and used it to brush hog between the trees on my tree farm for about 5 years. However, once the large jobs were done, I downsized to the PT425 for the maintenance tasks. There's a right machine for each job. I needed two. That was in my plans. Once I was done with the big tractor, I sold it to a tractor salvage yard. He offered my the price of what it was worth minus the parts I was going to buy to get it back in running condition to sell it, so I came out with what I wanted.

If you need to accomplish some large tasks, consider renting a large machine, or buying one with the intent of selling it when those large tasks are complete. But be aware that:
A. The machine may break and you may have to repair it.
B. The machine may not sell when you need to sell it.
Condider all scenarios and have a plan A, B, C, and XXX (drink heavily) if they don't work out!

 

[PTWannaHave]

Many thanks for all the insight!! :thumbsup:

My wife has made it pretty clear that she would not be happy with torn up grass everytime the 'workhorse' machine needs to be used... (1/2 the time the machine would be on landscaped lawn; the other half on wild grass/brush.)

Still leaning towards a PT; this was a valuable exercise (and due diligence) before spending that kind of money.

Have a great weekend,

 

[MossRoad]

Happy wife, happy life!