3rd Function for L45

[J_J]

This valve will operate the auger and no problem with PB. Can go in series with other valves, using a DO3 subplate.

This motor spool valve can be locked in fwd or rev. No voltage , valve is in neutral.
You can lock the motor in fwd or rev, and neutral.

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=9-7774&catname=hydraulic

To vary the speed of the auger, you use the engine rpm

 

[avc8130]

OK, now we are all over the place.

I really want the switch control on the joystick. #1 priority will be operating a grapple. #2 would be a hydraulic auger.

Is this the right valve for both?

https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=9-7774&catname=hydraulic

I will use a momentary switch, which I realize means I would have to hold it to operate the auger, but it will work better for the grapple which will be the primary implement.

ac

 

[J_J]

It depends on which features you want where.

Do you want to lock a hyd motor on and reverse it?

Do you want to be able to feather the grapple.

The above solenoid valve will control your hyd motor, and if you plug a grapple into it, it will provide open or close grapple , but no feathering.

If you want feather on grapple, you need a lever valve.

I would suggest a stacked valve with one spool a motor spool with detent, and the other spool a DA work station spring centered.

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=9-20-2-Y&catname=hydraulic

 

[avc8130]

I never had the ability to feather the grapple on my L39 and I don't think I ever missed the ability. I'd rather have the control right on the loader joystick than have to use 2 hands or lose control of dump/lift to operate the grapple.

I could run 2 switches if desired in parallel with the solenoid valve. 1 switch could be momentary for running the grapple and another could be maintained for running motors. I really don't think holding the button to run the auger will bother me much. I move a lot more brush and firewood with a grapple than I will dig fence posts/plant things with the auger.

ac

 

[J_J]

I will try and explain more fully.

A lever type valve is required for the following.

To effectively use a grapple, you should be able to grab hold of something with as little force as necessary, and feather will let you do that. If you just want to grab a log, then shove the lever fwd and it grips and locks in place, as the cyl fluid is blocked.

A momentary switch will operate the solenoid as long as it is held closed. When the switch is released, the cyl are locked in place. To release the material in the grapple, you hit the momentary switch for open. The grapple will stop when you release the button.

Now, if you use the same solenoid with a locking switch to operate a hyd motor, the motor will instantly run. However if there is a lot of centrifugal force, such as a large auger spinning at a high speed, and you shift the solenoid to neutral, the hyd motor will try and act like a pump and probably break something. That is why a motor spool is normally used with a hyd motor.

You can get away with using that solenoid if there is a double relief valve across the motor.

Again, a solenoid will not allow feather.

Here is the solenoid you need with a DO3 subplate.

You need to figured out the switch positions for grapple and hyd motor.

Add a double relief valve across the hyd motor, and your grapple will be instant on or off.

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=9-6136&catname=hydraulic

 

[avc8130]

To effectively use a grapple, you should be able to grab hold of something with as little force as necessary, and feather will let you do that. If you just want to grab a log, then shove the lever fwd and it grips and locks in place, as the cyl fluid is blocked.

A momentary switch will operate the solenoid as long as it is held closed. When the switch is released, the cyl are locked in place. To release the material in the grapple, you hit the momentary switch for open. The grapple will stop when you release the button.

Now, if you use the same solenoid with a locking switch to operate a hyd motor, the motor will instantly run. However if there is a lot of centrifugal force, such as a large auger spinning at a high speed, and you shift the solenoid to neutral, the hyd motor will try and act like a pump and probably break something. That is why a motor spool is normally used with a hyd motor.

JJ,

I had no feather ability on the grapple on my old setup, as designed by Kubota. It worked 100% fine. Never in my use did I ever wish to "feather" the function. The grapple jaws didn't wildly operate out of control super fast. They were smooth and easy to control. What you describe is exactly how it worked and it was perfect.

Operating the motor is where I get lost. I thought this valve:
https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=9-7774&catname=hydraulic
was a "motor spool" so it would be acceptable for running a motor? Would it NOT be acceptable for powering a cylinder also?

ac

 

[J_J]

No, because with the solenoid valve in neutral, all ports are open. This is by design to let the hyd motor spin down. You do not want this with a cyl as you want it to stay in place.

The last valve I posted you can get away with using both grapple and auger if you add the double relief valve, which will protect the hyd motor.

 

[avc8130]

No, because with the solenoid valve in neutral, all ports are open. This is by design to let the hyd motor spin down. You do not want this with a cyl as you want it to stay in place.

The last valve I posted you can get away with using both grapple and auger if you add the double relief valve, which will protect the hyd motor.

Ok, I am finally "getting it"!

I wonder what Kubota does. This is how they advertise it:

"Optional 3rd function valve. The L45 can be equipped with our optional 3rd function valve. This large-capacity (11.8 GPM) valve makes Skid Steer-type attachments, such as augers and sweepers, easier to operate."

That description would make me thing a motor spool valve would be needed. My grapple on my L39 would slowly close once I shut the machine off.

ac

 

[J_J]

You can not use a motor spool with cyl. All ports are open to tank and a cyl needs a spool that will lock the fluid in the cyl.

Here is the kind of relief valve you need across a hyd motor.

This one is on a hyd winch.


This diagram shows how a 3ed function valve is connected in the path of hyd flow.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...ydraulic-motors-front-hyd-do3b-flow-diagram-1

 

[avc8130]

You can not use a motor spool with cyl. All ports are open to tank and a cyl needs a spool that will lock the fluid in the cyl.

Here is the kind of relief valve you need across a hyd motor.

This one is on a hyd winch.


This diagram shows how a 3ed function valve is connected in the path of hyd flow.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...ydraulic-motors-front-hyd-do3b-flow-diagram-1

JJ,

How does Kubota "get away" with supplying a solenoid style valve and claiming it can be used with augers and sweepers?

This seems like a bad situation.

ac

 

[J_J]

Their statement is basically true. Did they add on anything else to the statement.

Tell me this, does the auger or the sweeper stop instantly.

If there is any centrifugal mass, they have to let the hyd motor wind down through a motor spool type valve, or a relief valve across the motor.

Do they say you can use cyl on that circuit?

It is possible to use a DA open center valve and run a hyd motor by holding the lever in the direction you want it to run.

If you jerk the lever back to neutral, you are in trouble. You will block the flow and the hd motor will act like a pump. The trick is to gradually reduce the speed of the hyd motor by pulling back on the lever slowly.

 

[avc8130]

Their statement is basically true. Did they add on anything else to the statement.

Tell me this, does the auger or the sweeper stop instantly.

If there is any centrifugal mass, they have to let the hyd motor wind down through a motor spool type valve, or a relief valve across the motor.

Do they say you can use cyl on that circuit?

It is possible to use a DA open center valve and run a hyd motor by holding the lever in the direction you want it to run.

If you jerk the lever back to neutral, you are in trouble. You will block the flow and the hd motor will act like a pump. The trick is to gradually reduce the speed of the hyd motor by pulling back on the lever slowly.

As far as I can find, there are no operating limits or guidelines from Kubota for the 3rd function. No asterisk or anything.

The motors most certainly like to spool down. No denying that.

They don't "say" you can use a cyl, but they sell the 4 in 1 bucket with the valve and the whole forum uses grapples without any real complaints.

There is no gradual with electric switches like the Kubota kit.

ac