354 (2005 vintage) three point hitch not working

[DonRina]

I can’t seem to get my three point hitch to lower or raise. Right now it’s in the up position and doesn’t want to move. My 354 has the two levers on the right side by the seat, either seems to do anything. When I bought it the owner advised that you have to rev it up a bit to get the three point to work. This did work once but now not so much. I did remove the seat and top plate and flushed and cleaned out the three point reservoir. I also found lots of gunk so cleaned everything I could get at. The filter screen was completely clogged. Added new fluid and still no joy on this. The power steering and fel work fine so I’m thinking I still have some issues in the three point area. The front, between the seat, knob was frozen but I’ve loosened it up. There is a mystery bolt with a plunger on the block inside the case which I have no clue what it does. Any ideas on what I should be looking for now?

 

[piper184]

The bolt with the plunger is likely the differential lock and would have nothing to do with the 3 point.
Since your FEL is working the pump and lines are probably not part of the problem.

Most often when a 3 point gets stuck in the up position it is the knob under the seat is turned all the way in and won't let it come down.
The 3 point is raised by a one way piston that can only provide "up" pressure. It goes down only by the weight of the implement and the arms.

The knob is connected to a needle valve. When you put the lever in the "lower" or "down" position it opens a passage from the cylinder, through the needle valve, through the control valve and back to the tank. All the fluid in the cylinder must exit through the needle valve. If it is screwed in all the way, or blocked, the fluid can not exit the cylinder and the arms can not lower.

However, the pump can still supply fluid to the cylinder through the control valve, bypassing the needle valve. The purpose of the needle valve is to regulate how fast the implement will lower to the ground. It has no effect on how fast it will raise up.

The chances are that you have a closed or plugged needle valve.

The other possibility is that the cylinder was over extended towards up and the piston has come out of the cylinder at the top end. This is rare, but is know to happen.

Take a look at the exploded parts diagrams to get an idea about what pieces are located where and how to get them apart.

You are off to a good start with your troubleshooting. Just take it to the next level by making sure the needle valve isn't the issue.

Let us know if you have any questions. And please let us know what the solution is once you find it. It will help others when they search on this subject.

Good job on posting the pictures and a good description of the problem.

Looking forward to hearing how it turns out.

 

[DonRina]

This all makes sense. The front knob which ends up pushing a cylinder in the control block (that’s what I call it anyway) did seem a little sticky so maybe it’s still got some crud in it. I’ll drain the fluid and remove the seat, cover plate and maybe remove the cylinder in the block and try to flush out any remaining crud. There just has to be blockage some where in the control block. So I think I need to clean up the crud on this part with the eight bolts on the top.

 

[DonRina]

Removed control block and cleaned it all out. Replaced feeder tube to rear hyd take off and jointer o ring. Mapped function of left adjuster bolt as per photo, note this is the inside face. Next I’ll try to take off the input hyd fluid tube and block to check for blockage. This is the same area where the needle valve goes in.

 

[piper184]

When you removed that control block, did the 3 point lower itself?
If not, there may be something physical blocking it.

 

[DonRina]

Checked intake valuing and could not find anything that would impede any function. I did slightly adjust the float so it just touches the rear valve for the pto. Replaced some of the o rings and spray cleaned the valving. Really couldn’t see anything amiss.

 

[piper184]

It is a little hard to tell but in the pictures it looks like the piston is retracted into the cylinder.
Did the lift arms settle all the way down?
If they did go down, then maybe you can use a little air pressure into the port at the bottom of the cylinder and see if it will push the piston and raise the arms. If that doesn't work, try blocking the arms up a little way and use air again and see if the piston moves in the cylinder.

IF you can't get it to move or if it is still stuck in the up position it might be just as easy to remove the cylinder since you are already that far into it. I haven't found any parts diagrams on the cylinder for the 354 and it is definitely different than the smaller 200 series tractor that I have.

Also, the end of the control knob speed valve looks like it is flat. I wonder if it works like a gate valve rather than a needle valve.

 

[DonRina]

It is a little hard to tell but in the pictures it looks like the piston is retracted into the cylinder.
Did the lift arms settle all the way down?
If they did go down, then maybe you can use a little air pressure into the port at the bottom of the cylinder and see if it will push the piston and raise the arms. If that doesn't work, try blocking the arms up a little way and use air again and see if the piston moves in the cylinder.

IF you can't get it to move or if it is still stuck in the up position it might be just as easy to remove the cylinder since you are already that far into it. I haven't found any parts diagrams on the cylinder for the 354 and it is definitely different than the smaller 200 series tractor that I have.

Also, the end of the control knob speed valve looks like it is flat. I wonder if it works like a gate valve rather than a needle valve.

Well the arms did lift up and down but I found the operation of them very erratic, sometimes they worked and sometimes not at all. Given they did work..sometimes, I could see no faults in the piston, valves etc and given the very sludgy/junky mess I had cleaned out including filter I decided a full flush would be my next course of action.

The flushing fluid I used was 1 liter of atf, 1 liter of 90% rubbing alcohol and the balance diesel. All this was mixed and then poured into the previously drained hydraulic sump.

Ran the tractor warming it up then ran the FEL through its range of motion several times and then tried the three point arms and, lo and behold, they worked great! Cycled everything about ten times and had zero issues. Drained the flushing solution and it had a junky look. Refilled the sump with pure diesel and repeated the range of motion. Filled with hydraulic fluid did one more flush, drain and refill.

Buttoned everything up and I’m calling this done.

Not sure what to do with all the crappy diesel, maybe fire starter.

Thanks to all for your insight. Like usual it’s my fault for not compleating the task (proper flushing) correctly but I am new to these beasts.

 

[piper184]

That' great news. You did a fantastic job.
Welcome to tractor ownership and maintenance.
Thank you for the update and the pictures. It is sure to help someone else in the future.

 

[DonRina]

Well The arms did work but I felt they still were not as easy to raise as should be. I decided to bypass the fel valve and hooked up the quick connect to bypass the fel and go directly to the three point. There was no change from the original connection through the fel, hence there must still be something amiss in the three point system.

I ended up draining the hyd fluid and then removing the two valve blocks. The first one I had previously removed and cleaned out. The second one which is the smaller one on the right side then came off. Upon disassembly I found some crud in the middle valve assembly which prevented fluid flow to the piston. I cleaned the whole assembly and replaced all, filled it back up.

The arms now raise very well. No reving the engine and jiggling the fel is required. I think this is how the arms are designed to work.

Sorry no pics this time…too oily!

 

[stevem5215]

Have you replaced the fine screen in there ? They get damaged easily and that's how the valve could have gotten junked up.

 

[DonRina]

Not yet, but did remove the old one and cleaned it out. No damage to it but I’ll replace it in the near future.

Be nice to have a listing of all the o rings on this tractor. They are somewhat strange sizes.

 

[piper184]

The o-rings are going to all be metric sizes. Some will be close to imperial, but usually just not quite right.
Unfortunately the assortments of metric sizes I have found don't seem to have many in common with the tractor.
The will be listed by OD, ID and diameter (thickness) of the ring. Online dealers like Circle G and Affordable seem to be the best place to get the sizes you need.
Do you have a parts book for your tractor?

 

[DonRina]

The o-rings are going to all be metric sizes. Some will be close to imperial, but usually just not quite right.
Unfortunately the assortments of metric sizes I have found don't seem to have many in common with the tractor.
The will be listed by OD, ID and diameter (thickness) of the ring. Online dealers like Circle G and Affordable seem to be the best place to get the sizes you need.
Do you have a parts book for your tractor?

No, no parts book. I did get a selection of o rings as well as head gasket with the tractor though.

 

[DonRina]

As an update to this thread. The arms did work for about 10 months and then started behaving similar to the initial way. I’ ve taken it apart and found the inner valving somewhat tight. I think crap got in in spite of the flushing. This valving is very susceptible to being affected by miniscue sized pieces of crud. I have it all apart so will post pics tomorrow.

Bit of a pita.

 

[DonRina]

If anyone has a decent diagram for the two lever type of distributor could you please post it. All the ones I’ve seen are for the single lever externally mounted type. Mine is inside the three point box. Thanks!

 

[DonRina]

Here are the photos of the distribution block. What ends up jamming is the small valving assembly (photo with wrench at the side.) Clearances are quite tight so it doesn’t take much to jam it.

Looking at my filter the spaces between the mesh are too large to trap the size of pieces which can cause a jam. Maybe there is a better filter out there?

 

[piper184]

Since I have no direct knowledge of this particular setup, I can only offer some speculation and observation.

First, are the spools and bores absolutely polished looking with no score or wear marks? These close tolerance fits can't put up with much roughness, even if the sealing is done with o-rings.

Also, if there is enough wear in either the spool or the bore, the spool can cock off to one side and cause it to jam. The fit between the spool and bore is the only guiding surface to keep things "square".

When you took it apart, were you finding debris in the valves?

Perhaps o-rings from another source or material would be a good thing to try. If you take the old o-rings to a hydraulic shop they should be able to give you options for different materials. The parts department in a Caterpillar dealership is is used to doing this. I don't know about other equipment manufacturers but I would bet most of them could help with that.

From the picture of the suction screen, is there a bunch of debris stuck in the screen or am I just seeing drops of fluid that are held in the mesh?

That screen definitely looks more porous than the one in my 284 tractor. Mine is a very fine mesh bronze or copper screen. Very delicate and I tore it when I removed it the first time. Not having a spare, I found a motorcycle oil filter that I was able to adapt to the pickup tube and ran with that for several years. But that was not a good solution. It was a far superior filter, but it was too restrictive and caused flow and cavitation problems in cold weather, no matter how thin of fluid I used. I eventually went back to the mesh pickup screen.

The best solution is to have a fairly course pickup screen feeding the pump, then a high pressure filter in the output line of the pump before it gets to any of the rest of the system. Some of the Jinma tractors came from the factory with this setup, at least the 200 series did, as the parts books show both systems. It seems that in the early 2000's there were a lot of different configurations of these tractors.

It shouldn't be too hard to do a retrofit and add a filter on the pressure side of the pump. Probably wouldn't even cost that much, but somehow I always seem to have something more important to do...

 

[DonRina]

Thanks for the reply. The spools and bores were tight on the parts next to the wrench on the bench. The other ones were all ok. While I didn’t find any specific crud on the tight spools there was obviously something in there as once separated and cleaned up they slid in and moved as they should. Really doesn’t take much to jam these. The factory screen is supposed to be 100# or 150 microns…seems to course to me I’m not a hydraulics person. My screen does have some crud, mainly on the bottom part. I’ve since taken it out and am trying to find a replacement locally but will probably end up ordering one. Maybe a filter on the return side would be good as well but that might be a later project. Timing is part of the problem as the tractor is sitting in the attached garage…wife not happy. I wanted to do some other work, brake job, clean up the charging system contacts, replace a tie rod etc but I have the parts on hand for this. Be great if I could source a local filter looks like 43mm x 125mm long filter.

 

[DonRina]

New filter vs old from another post just in case it was missed by someone with the same problem.