Backhoe 3320 + 448 backhoe - first impressions

[Nathan_OR]

I took delivery of the 448 backhoe with 18" HD bucket last night and had a few hours to play around with it. I'm a complete newbie to backhoes so bear that in mind when reading... this info probably isn't useful to any of you experts out there.

Pros:
- plenty of power even at low engine RPMs... I pulled out a boulder that has been plaguing my lawn mower for years, probably 3' across with only a few inches sticking out above the surface, and the hoe just hooked it and pulled it right out... amazing how much the earth heaved up around it... lots of power! kinda scary actually
- easier to get going with the thing than I had feared, probably because I kept the engine at ~1400 RPMs, which meant that it wasn't too quick or jerky... still it was hard to get "down" (see below)
- everything that swivels has a grease fitting! this thing should last forever if maintained properly
- the seat mechanism is sweet, I can step out of the backhoe operator's chair onto my tire (holding onto the ROPS) flip up the hoe seat, drop the tractor seat, and step into the tractor seat in just a few seconds... then back in just about as little time (although it takes a second to flip down the bh operator's seat because it has a catch you have to reach for)

Cons:
- taking the thing on and off is a bit of a chore. I'm sure I'll quicker at it but just getting the thing lined up is a real PITA, since you not only have to be square to the thing side-to-side, but the hoe frame bracket has to be tilted properly to hook it with the 3ph pins... once I get fast at it I imagine I'll be able to put it on in ~20 minutes (and about the same for taking it off and putting back on the 3ph arms) but it's never going to be something you want to just throw on to do a quick job then take off
- the ROPS really has to be up to use it, it's just too powerful with too much leverage on the tractor to risk otherwise, and this means that for me I'm going to have to take it off to fit in my parking spot... bummer, won't bug most people but if you have to fold down your ROPS to fit into your shed, you will have to fold/unfold any time you use it
- its a lot harder to master than other implements I've used... the boxblade I got working smoothly and quickly in a few hours of practice... cutting a flat bottom with the hoe is so far pretty hard, since as you bring the arm back toward yourself the angle of the bucket has to change to keep level with the ground... excavator joysticks are a lot more intuitive, at least for me

Other:
- with the hoe on, my tractor officially feels HEAVY. I bet I'm weighing in around 6000lbs. This is great for digging with the loader but it also left 2-3" deep ruts in ground that was supporting the tractor okay with the hoe off.

Overall the thing seems like a great (even necessary) tool for some jobs I have lined up. Pulling stumps, digging french drains or irrigation pipelines, digging up old foundation footing, and putting in a new septic tank. However I think that I had some ideas for it that really won't be practical: carving out dirt for a new walkway (better to use the boxblade), pulling out fenceposts (loader and chain does the trick much quicker since I don't have to set up the outriggers at every post), and other stuff that doesn't involve deep digging seems like the overhead of detaching the 3ph, attaching the hoe, and then setting up the hoe everywhere I want to work, will mean that the hoe doesn't get used for as many "odd jobs" as I had thought when I plunked down the $8k for it.

Anyway just thought I'd share my newbie thoughts on the thing... I'll update as I learn more of the ins and outs

Nathan

 

[Dave4410]

Try raising the backhoe in to position with the stabilizers...the holes will line-up more easily.

 

[Dave4410]

Here are a couple of non-prescribed tips:
Try raising the backhoe in to position with the stabilizers...the holes will line-up more easily.
Eventually you're going to slip off your rear tire when climbing around on it, probably some day when it's wet or muddy ...try using a half-raised stabilizer as a step.

 

[Cidertom]

A couple of things I have gleaned from here, and things I had to learn the hard way:
The manual says curl the bucket part way when dismounting the BH. From experience the hydralulics leak down leaving the BH leaned too far back. Two methods to help. dump the bucket all the way, or curl the bucket all the way and have cribbing to park it on.

I used extension hoses from the rear grease ports on the swing cylinders to make it easier to grease those pivots.

I think the dismounted bh is too unstable as is. The kids know they are not supposed to play on/ around the tools. But kids... I lower the stabilizers to just clear the ground when the BH is lowered to the ground.

You WILL find the one pipe no one knows about.

Have a spare tooth

I have the time down to about 7 minutes to mount the BH and 10 to dismount. Practice and a good system. While I do try to have projects lined up, I find it takes more time to stage scheduling of tasks than it does to mount/ dismount the bh.

have fun

 

[jeffinsgf]

Everything about mounting and dismounting the backhoe gets easier if you have a level concrete pad to park it on.

I have had the same experience as CiderTom. That is, the OM says to adjust the bucket so that the edge is parallel with the ground when parking. That works like a charm to take it off, but if it is more than a day or two before you put it back on, the hydraulics leak off and the angle is all wrong. Lifting with the stabilizers means swapping the hoses an extra time, too. What I did is cut a scrap 2 x 4 that fits from the bottom of the bucket to the joint in the boom (48-1/2" for a 48BH). When I park it, I put the 2 x 4 in place and curl the bucket up to it (gently). Now it will stay at exactly the right angle for remounting.

Before my 2 x 4 trick, it would take me 3 or 4 tries to get lined up and snag the hooks with the rock shaft. Now I get it on the first or second try every time. Keep practicing. After a couple of times you'll get it down to the point you will look for reasons to use your BH -- I do.

 

[DayDreamer]

jeffinsgf - Great tip!

I'm removing my 448 for the first time this weekend, so, this is timely. Thanks

 

[Dave4410]

I still say you'll find that raising the backhoe in to place on the tractor with the stabilizers to be the quickest way to complete the task. There's no need to use the rockshaft; leave it in the lowest position. An other advantage in using just the stabilizers is that you don't have to worry about the leak-down that every one is talking about; just adjust the stabilizers to level and align the hoe.

 

[jeffinsgf]

I'll have to try it your way sometime, Dave. I have always used the rock shaft because that is how it says to do it in the manual. I also don't have room to swing the stabilizers down in the spot where my hoe is parked.

 

[XviperX2]

This is the best way I have found to store my loader and hoe. it is very stabile if you put 2 2x4s under the back of the hoe. I also put a strap on the stabilzers so they dont leak down. the angle is perfect to pick and drop, I only use the rockshaft to lift in place.

 

[cef2lion]

I started storing my 430 loader and 48BH for my 4410 that way as well. Takes up less space in the garage.

Craig

 

[Nathan_OR]

Alright so I've had some more time to play around with it and yes I'm getting the on/off time down to a lot lower. A few things I'll share (not to say I'm right and anyone else is wrong, just my experience):

- the reason that the rockshaft arms didn't line up the holes without help from the stabilizer arms was because the brass hook plates (can't recall the proper name) on the backhoe bracket were not adjusted properly. When I got my backhoe, the plates were in the same spot as the hooks on the frame... basically doing nothing but reinforcing the existing hooks. I found that I couldn't get the holes to line up without using the stabilizer arms and the bucket. However, the manual mentioned adjusting them if the holes didn't line up, so after a few trials (lift backhoe up, see that it's too low, lower it, adjust plates, try again), I got the plates adjusted, and now raising my rockshaft all the way lines the holes up perfectly. I can literally hook up the backhoe in less than 5 minutes, because the angle doesn't have to be perfect... the rockshaft lifts it into place and I put the pins in and I'm done. If you have been using the stabilizer arms I suggest trying to adjust those brass hook plates, because it means much less swapping of the power beyond hydraulic hoses. It still takes a bit of time to take off the 3ph though. Speaking of which...

- I replaced the funny "keychain" style rings on the draft link pins, and all the cotter pins on the iMatch, with linchpins. Now it takes a few minutes less to get the 3ph off. Plus I figured out a way to get the whole thing off assembled (i.e. without taking the iMatch frame off the 3ph arms) without killing my back: I put a block of wood for the iMatch to sit on, and then I unhook the toplink (it's annoying that I have to raise the rockshaft all the way up to get the toplink pin out!) and swing the toplink out over the iMatch frame, and hook it to a chain I put around a fencepost (I'll make a more permanent wooden 3ph removal station later). Now I can take off the rest of the arms and the iMatch sits on top of the block. When I'm done with the backhoe, hooking back up is easy because I hook up the draft links first and then the whole thing is held up by the block while I attach the toplink. I haven't timed it but I think taking off the 3ph takes less than 5 minutes, and doesn't require any lifting of the iMatch frame.

- I started parking it with the stabilizers up and using the 2x4 trick from jeffinsgf. But I had to do a few things differently. First my 2x4 was a bit shorter because where I park isn't perfectly flat, it's a gravel floor. This means I need to park in the same spot more or less, so I just marked the gravel with marking paint. Then I measured out the distance from the bucket to the boom pin. Now I can curl the bucket to level, then when it's all parked I put in the 2x4 and it's maybe 1" shy of touching... if it settles to touching it won't be enough to make it hard to lift. I couldn't curl the bucket to touching the 2x4, because the 2x4 is on the ground, and by the time my bucket is on the ground, I've already got the hydraulics attached to the rockshaft arms.

Anyway, it's fun Oh but on an unrelated note, how the HECK do you guys get that PTO on the cutter attached without busting your back? I have to kneel on the cutter, brace my stomach on the 3ph attach frame for the cutter, and with one hand pull back the locking collar on the cutter's PTO shaft while pushing the thing onto the PTO with the other hand! It about killed my back last time I did it, and it took me 15-20 minutes and a lot of sweating and straining to get that thing to slide onto the PTO. Lining up the teeth isn't easy either since the cutter blade rotates a little as I push hard on the u-joint and then they aren't lined up any more. Tips?

Thanks guys this forum rocks.

Nathan

 

[Nathan_OR]

This is the best way I have found to store my loader and hoe. it is very stabile if you put 2 2x4s under the back of the hoe. I also put a strap on the stabilzers so they dont leak down. the angle is perfect to pick and drop, I only use the rockshaft to lift in place.

"Daddy, are the 448 backhoe and the 300cx loader in love?"

 

[jeffinsgf]

One thing I got from a thread here on TBN a couple years ago (when my tractor was brand new) was that the PTO spindle on the tractor moves very easily about 30 degrees -- way more than the width of one spline.

Now, I reach a finger in the implement section and see what's at top dead center -- a spline or a groove. Then I turn the tractor spindle so that it will match up. Don't pull back on the collar yet. Get the coupler aligned and started on the shaft. Now pull back on the collar and slide it home. The more you do it the easier it gets, but its almost comical how hard I was working to turn the implement shaft to get the splines and grooves aligned when it never dawned on me that the tractor spindle would turn so easily.

BTW -- either way will work, but my 2 x 4 is IN the bucket.

I gave up on iMatch, but if I hadn't, I like your 3pt hitch parking idea. Without an iMatch, jerking the 3pt off is not a big deal at all. If it doesn't rain, I may be doing that tomorrow.

 

[Nathan_OR]

Yeah I figured out I could spin the PTO on the tractor But as I'm spazzing out on the PTO shaft on the cutter, I end up rotating it without meaning to. Since I can't see it, I don't notice until I give up trying to shove it on and check it again, and now instead of a spline there's a groove at the top!! Argh

 

[B8FISH]

Yep--as Jeff said, rotate the PTO stub not the whole shaft--and the angle makes a big difference also. I find that with the MX-5 raised a little, the connection is easier to make--the shaft slides more smoothly when it is roughly parallel to the ground.

 

[jeffinsgf]

Yeah I figured out I could spin the PTO on the tractor But as I'm spazzing out on the PTO shaft on the cutter, I end up rotating it without meaning to. Since I can't see it, I don't notice until I give up trying to shove it on and check it again, and now instead of a spline there's a groove at the top!! Argh

Then I never want to arm wrestle you! I can barely get my MX-5 shaft to turn at all.