3 questions

TractorGuy1 · Nov 24, 2005

Both questions are for a Jinma 224

1. What should I set the idle RPM at.

2. To remove the cover plate for the creeper gear do I need to remove the creeper shift lever first or will it come off with the plate. If it needs to be removed first is this done by tapping out the roll pin through the shaft.

3. Should I put a few hours on the tractor before adjusting the clutch plates as the PTO is allways rotating when the clutch is pressed down.

greg_g · Nov 24, 2005

1. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 800 rpm
2. no need to remove the lever, but be VERY careful of the gasket
3. parasitic friction turns the spline, you'll very likely never adjust it out. I can stop mine by simply grabbing it with my hand.

//greg//

Ranch_Hand_Supp · Nov 24, 2005

TractorGuy1, If I did it correctly...the link will show you some pic's with the creeper/shifter cover removed.

http://www.ranchhandsupply.com/pages/33/index.htm

Ronald
Ranch Hand Supply

gunslinger101 · Nov 25, 2005

I would NEVER grab a PTO shaft with my hand, unless you want your arm torn off in the event your wrong and it is engaged,(PTO's love long shirts) Hook up a implement and see what it does, way safer, unless you like the nick name Lefty.
Many lose limbs every year because they get to comfortable and think they know more than that tractor does, the tractor will bite when you least expect it.

greg_g · Nov 25, 2005

( I would NEVER grab a PTO shaft with my hand)

I wouldn't either TAT, that's why I said spline.

Now if a PTO shaft itself is turning with the PTO lever disengaged - THAT's a whole different story, one that would in fact suggest a PTO clutch adjustment may be in order.

But you can stop a parasitically turned spline by hand without fear.

//greg//

ToolManRick · Nov 26, 2005

To suggest that he test it by grabbing the spline is dangerous, UNLESS the tractor engine is off. Maybe somebody could sit on the tractor and depress the clutch and see if it can be turned.

I know where your coming from, but your going to get a lot of heat on that one Greg! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Paddy · Nov 26, 2005

Tool Man,

I know where Greg g is coming too, we both have KAMA 454s. The spine will rotate very slowly when not engaged. I mean very slow. There is no doubt when it's turning at 540 or 1000 rpm.

He is just trying to prevent an unrequired adjustment or concern. I supose if in boubt, use a 2x2 apply friction to the spline.

Patrick

greg_g · Nov 26, 2005

( Maybe somebody could sit on the tractor and depress the clutch and see if it can be turned. )

Maybe somebody could point out where I recommended anybody grab the spline on a running tractor. If you look again, you'll see I simply stated that I can grab and stop MINE without difficulty or fear.

Nevertheless, it doesn't matter if it's a KAMA or a Jinma. And you don't need the second person.
With the tractor RUNNING and no PTO shaft on the spline
1. set brakes
2. place transmission gear select in Neutral
3. depress clutch and engage PTO lever
4. release clutch and STOP ENGINE
5. dismount tractor and try to turn spline by hand

If properly engaged in step 3, spline should not rotate

6. disengage PTO lever
7. try to turn spline by hand

If properly decoupled by step 6, spline should rotate.

If the spline cannot be moved by hand at this point, ONLY THEN should a clutch adjustment be considered.

//greg//

gunslinger101 · Nov 27, 2005

( 1. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 800 rpm
2. no need to remove the lever, but be VERY careful of the gasket
3. parasitic friction turns the spline, you'll very likely never adjust it out. I can stop mine by simply grabbing it with my hand.

//greg// )

You can STOP yours by grabbing it with your hand, implying the tractor is running or do you have a PTO that turns without the engine running?
TAT??, maybe tat2z1969? wrong, you have me confused with my uncle. Maybe to your disbelief, but more than one Jim in western PA owns a JD60 and lives on a farm.

greg_g · Nov 27, 2005

( , you have me confused with my uncle. )

Sorry. Guess I was just dazzled by the same charming demeanor. Must be a family trait.

//greg//

ToolManRick · Nov 27, 2005

Opps, your right. You did state that exactly. In my defense I claim you imply he should be able to do the same. If not, then why even mention such a thing. And BTW step 6 does not check disengagement of the clutch, just the drivetrain after the clutch. I would hate to see anyone get mangled by a PTO. Never grab or even thouch a rotating shaft or spline or drill bit or tire or fan or /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

greg_g · Nov 27, 2005

( And BTW step 6 does not check disengagement of the clutch, just the drivetrain after the clutch. )
Never said that either Rick. It checks for a maladjusted PTO clutch. Point being; if your PTO clutch disc won't let go of the PTO driveline, the PTO select lever is ineffective.

A condo complex I once lived in had speed bumps that limited you to ~5 mph. Big place, so it took a while to get through it at 5 mph - especially when this one nuisance dog kept yipping alongside at the tires. One of my neighbors decided he'd had enough. Stuck a towel in between the hubcap and the rim, then made a 5 mph circuit of the condo streets. Dog grabbed the flopping towel and locked his jaws. Never saw him chase any more cars after that.

//greg//

gunslinger101 · Nov 27, 2005

( ( , you have me confused with my uncle. )

Sorry. Guess I was just dazzled by the same charming demeanor. Must be a family trait.

//greg// )

Yup and thats a good thing.

gunslinger101 · Nov 28, 2005

( Point being; if your PTO clutch disc won't let go of the PTO driveline, the PTO select lever is ineffective.

)
So if the clutch won't let go you say the PTO engage and diengage lever is ineffective? If this is the case why is there a lever on the tractor.
If a duel stage clutch is hung engaged, and one moves the PTO lever to disengage, then the PTO is disengaged at the final output shaft.
Same if the trans stage of the clutch is engage, moving the shift lever to neutral disengages the trans. Parts still will turn, but are disconnected from their final drives.
Unless you are trying to be clever with wording. that dog won't hunt.
And if that was a attempt at being clever, you maybe put some newbe in a dangerous situation reading that &^%$.
Condo story is cute, better a dog than someone grabbing a PTO shaft splined or otherwise and learning not to grab it with the arm he has left.
Your comment about my family traits is not going to upset me, I consider the sourse and I don't feed trolls.

bluechip · Nov 28, 2005

If an implement does not stop running (eventually...no brake) when you step on the clutch, you can try to turn teh stop screw on the bell housing in a bit to see if you just need a little more travel, the best thing to do is to remove a side cover (loader bracket if loader installed) and make sure all 3 fingers are the same distance from the throw out bearing, and that the throw out bearing can get away from the fingers when fully released.

If the shaft just seems to continue to coast, without an implement attached, I will use the bottom of my shoe against the end of the PTO to see if a little friction will stop it with the clutch pedal all the way in, if not, than the clutch is not releasing enough to operate properly. I suppose a disclaimer needs to be made not to have loose shoe strings and if the shaft, and the paid professional, closed coarse do not try this at home stuff...

greg_g · Nov 28, 2005

( So if the clutch won't let go you say the PTO engage and diengage lever is ineffective? If this is the case why is there a lever on the tractor.)

Curious logic. Just because there is a lever, it must work. I'll have to tell my urologist that one.

( If a duel stage clutch is hung engaged, and one moves the PTO lever to disengage, then the PTO is disengaged at the final output shaft.)

Sorry, on a running tractor that is incorrect. If there are tolerance, installation, or seating issues with the PTO friction disc, it's entirely possible - even probable - that the PTO engage/disengage lever will be rendered useless till you shut off the engine. Sometimes not even then. Same if the clutch fingers significantly exceed the specified gap. The PTO friction disc can't disengage sufficiently from the flywheel, also rendering the PTO engage/disengage lever useless on a running tractor. And nobody wants to stop/start the engine every time they need to engage/disengage the PTO driveline.

( Same if the trans stage of the clutch is engage, moving the shift lever to neutral disengages the trans. Parts still will turn, but are disconnected from their final drives. )

Not the same. In fact, apples and oranges. PTO engage/disengage and transmission gear select levers are independent of each other. With a properly adjusted clutchpack, you can have the tractor transmission in neutral - and STILL have the PTO driveline engaged and turning. Think PTO shaft-driven log splitters, backhoes, pumps, generators.

Here's a thought. Go back up to the beginning of the thread, and try your hand at answering the original three questions. The whole idea of these self-help forums is for members to put their ideas on the table, then let the person asking the question pick up those they think may work best for them.

//greg//

ToolManRick · Nov 28, 2005

Your logic is correct Jim, at least with my Jinma. Maybe Kama's are set up different. Even if the clutch pack were welded into a solid hunk my PTO is disengaged when the lever is in the neutral position. Seems lately here everything is wording.

greg_g · Nov 28, 2005

( Maybe Kama's are set up different. Even if the clutch pack were welded into a solid hunk my PTO is disengaged when the lever is in the neutral position. Seems lately here everything is wording. )

No different Rick, I've worked on them both. Twice on Jinmas and one KAMA. Matter of fact, I've got an entire K400 series clutchpack in my workshop right now. Guess it just depends on who's wording you choose to believe. Curious though, you don't disagree with Chip. We are both saying essentially the same thing, just different words.

Besides, your clutch/PTO is not relative since it's assumed to be operating correctly. What I've been trying to identify is a method or methods by which TractorGuy1 can decide if he actually needs to worry about HIS clutchpack.

//greg//

ToolManRick · Nov 28, 2005

I didn't disagree with Chip because he's correct. I guess the logic of your post isn't as clear, not necessarily incorrect, just not the same logic as Chip and Jim have used.

Hope TractorGuy hasn't wrapped anything up on his spline. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

gunslinger101 · Nov 29, 2005

( I didn't disagree with Chip because he's correct. I guess the logic of your post isn't as clear, not necessarily incorrect, just not the same logic as Chip and Jim have used.

Hope TractorGuy hasn't wrapped anything up on his spline. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif )

Ricko:
You are correct, I wouldn't beat a dead horse.

greg-g
if the lever is engaged the PTO is engage if its disengaged its disengaged.
anything other that that your so full of it your head hurts.

Chip:
You are correct, disclaimers might be in the future, many of these people didn't know what a PTO was until they bought their first tractor.Better a disclaimer or more correct information than a dead tractor owner. We both know if the PTO lever is disengaged, no matter what the clutch does the PTO is disengaged if the lever is functioning correctly.