3 pt and pto attachment issues

[WorkPorter]

I'm a newbie with a jd 2305 and a 4' frontier rear mower and have been wrestling over the difficulty of getting the two attached. Eventual success has depended on using 2 variations from standard operating procedure which I've not found discussed in this forum.

#1- Attaching the PTO before the 3 pt. The manual and everyone here (with 1 exception and he drew no replies) says to do the 3 pt hook up first. My problem with this is that hooking up the 3 pt first seems to not leave enough distance for the fully retracted pto drive to line up. In other words the swivel head must be at least slightly tilted away from the tractor's splines when I try to line the two up. To be honest, I've seen a guy from the dealership succeed in making the connection, but it seems he had to do it by coming at it from an angle rather than straight on and I haven't been able to duplicate that magic. I want to know if there's any harm done by my pushing the mower slightly further back (a few inches) from the tractor, attaching the pto, then pushing the mower closer again to hook up the 3 pt connections.

#2- The guy from the dealership warned me of a tight fit in connecting the draft links to the mower. The difficulty here comes from these stabilizer pins. I'm not sure the one pointed to is the exact size I have, but the key feature of these pins I'm referring to are their "usable space". The usable space has to accommodate the draft link, some thickness of steel from the tractor as well as the thickness from the mower. Try as I might to get everything perfectly lined up on both sides there was never quite enough space (off by about 1/8'' on each side) to then insert the lynch pins. So I bought some pins with about 1/4" more usable space and tried to fill in the slack with washers. The washers don't fully take up all the slack. How important is that? The center link I've noticed has a lot of slack built into it with the original parts, but with all the weight of the mower being pulled around would I risk damaging something by not having an absolutely snug tight fit?

Hope my descriptions make enough sense to attract a comment or two.
Thanks for reading this far,
Bob

 

[OtterBrookStables]

I'm a newbie with a jd 2305 and a 4' frontier rear mower and have been wrestling over the difficulty of getting the two attached. Eventual success has depended on using 2 variations from standard operating procedure which I've not found discussed in this forum.

#1- Attaching the PTO before the 3 pt. The manual and everyone here (with 1 exception and he drew no replies) says to do the 3 pt hook up first. My problem with this is that hooking up the 3 pt first seems to not leave enough distance for the fully retracted pto drive to line up. In other words the swivel head must be at least slightly tilted away from the tractor's splines when I try to line the two up. To be honest, I've seen a guy from the dealership succeed in making the connection, but it seems he had to do it by coming at it from an angle rather than straight on and I haven't been able to duplicate that magic. I want to know if there's any harm done by my pushing the mower slightly further back (a few inches) from the tractor, attaching the pto, then pushing the mower closer again to hook up the 3 pt connections.

#2- The guy from the dealership warned me of a tight fit in connecting the draft links to the mower. The difficulty here comes from these stabilizer pins. I'm not sure the one pointed to is the exact size I have, but the key feature of these pins I'm referring to are their "usable space". The usable space has to accommodate the draft link, some thickness of steel from the tractor as well as the thickness from the mower. Try as I might to get everything perfectly lined up on both sides there was never quite enough space (off by about 1/8'' on each side) to then insert the lynch pins. So I bought some pins with about 1/4" more usable space and tried to fill in the slack with washers. The washers don't fully take up all the slack. How important is that? The center link I've noticed has a lot of slack built into it with the original parts, but with all the weight of the mower being pulled around would I risk damaging something by not having an absolutely snug tight fit?

Hope my descriptions make enough sense to attract a comment or two.
Thanks for reading this far,
Bob

Hi Bob - welcome aboard. There's a wealth of knowledge here. Sounds like your drive shaft may be a bit too long - may not have been cut properly. You might consider an iMatch hitch - it would make attachment a snap and it sounds like your driveshaft is long enough to allow one. At any rate, if you attach the PTO first then attach the 3 pt, it should be just fine. As far as the slop in the pins - from what you describe a little play won't hurt a thing.

 

[Runner]

I agree with Otterbrookstables on both counts. I use a rear mower and the iMatch makes hooking it up easy. One trick I learned about lining up the splines on the drive shaft is to shift the PTO lever into the "front" position. This frees up the pto shaft so you can turn it with your fingers to line it up with the mower drive shaft.

Not sure what brand of mower you have, but Frontier has a kit to make their finish mowers iMatch compatible.

 

[9973720wb19]

What an excellent tip..."One trick I learned about lining up the splines on the drive shaft is to shift the PTO lever into the "front" position. This frees up the pto shaft so you can turn it with your fingers to line it up with the mower drive shaft." I have about 60 hours on my 3720 and this is a question I've been too shy to ask. I'd bet I've lost 35 pounds sweating trying to change out the rear PTO attachments...thank a lot! this is one great network.

 

[chipsndust]

What an excellent tip..."One trick I learned about lining up the splines on the drive shaft is to shift the PTO lever into the "front" position. This frees up the pto shaft so you can turn it with your fingers to line it up with the mower drive shaft." I have about 60 hours on my 3720 and this is a question I've been too shy to ask. I'd bet I've lost 35 pounds sweating trying to change out the rear PTO attachments...thank a lot! this is one great network.

Might be obvious, but worth mentioning, the same is true for front attachments, put the PTO selector in the rear position for hook-up.

 

[kennyd]

What an excellent tip..."One trick I learned about lining up the splines on the drive shaft is to shift the PTO lever into the "front" position. This frees up the pto shaft so you can turn it with your fingers to line it up with the mower drive shaft." I have about 60 hours on my 3720 and this is a question I've been too shy to ask. I'd bet I've lost 35 pounds sweating trying to change out the rear PTO attachments...thank a lot! this is one great network.

It is a great tip, but I don't think that will work the the 3x20 series...the mid-PTO is directly driven from the rear I think-you cannot select just the front. I know the 4x00 and 4x20 series are like this.

 

[kennyd]

I also think Otterbrook hit the nail on the head...sounds like your PTO shaft is to long, and that could cause sever damage to your machine if it is...and the iMatch will make life easier hooking up your mower and anything else.

 

[RoyJackson]

I'm not sure if I'm interpreting WorkPorter's post correctly...but I'll toss in my two cents...
Rig the mower to the lower (draft) links first. If you want, move the tractor forward a touch to get the mower directly behind the tractor (after the lower links are hooked up).
Then hook up the implement PTO shaft. Use Runner's suggestion to free the PTO shaft...hope it works for you.
Then rig the upper link.
If that works for you...great. Just report back any success or failure.

Also, before you trim that PTO shaft, you might want to consider buying Pat's Easy Change. That really helps getting the lower links rigged up (and, if you think a rear mower with it's 4 wheels is tough, wait until you try hooking up a rotary cutter!). Pat's Easy Change extends the hook up points (for the lower links) about 4" or so further aft of the tractor (which is why you don't want to trim the shaft yet). With Pat's, you back up to the implement (with the 3PH lowered), then raise the 3ph. The implement pins lock into place. I've used Pat's system for 5 years or more...makes life a lot easier and a lot less cursing when I rig my cutter (or any other implement that doesn't have 4 wheels).

 

[Runner]

Contrary to my intuition, simply shifting the PTO lever to neutral did not free up the PTO shaft, I had to shift to front...


A thought about the drive shaft length:

If you do decide to get the iMatch, it will increase the spacing between the 3 point arms and the mower, so that may be enough to take care of the driveshaft length problem.

In other words, if you decide to get an iMatch, don't cut the drive shaft off first, or it may wind up being too short....

 

[OtterBrookStables]

Contrary to my intuition, simply shifting the PTO lever to neutral did not free up the PTO shaft, I had to shift to front...


A thought about the drive shaft length:

If you do decide to get the iMatch, it will increase the spacing between the 3 point arms and the mower, so that may be enough to take care of the driveshaft length problem.

In other words, if you decide to get an iMatch, don't cut the drive shaft off first, or it may wind up being too short....

Right on the money! :thumbsup: Same for the Pat's system.

 

[Barely Smokin']

Hi Bob,

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with cutting the shaft down. That's the first thing I'd do. Cheap, easy, and bulletproof. My kinda fix.

Word of caution: if all this is "stock", it seems a little fishy that it doesn't work right "out of the box." Before you cut anything, you may want to connect it the hard way and simulate the geometry of the tractor/mower when the shaft will be at its longest. This will involve setting the top link adjustment where you want it, then driving the tractor's rear wheels up on some wheel ramps, etc. to simulate the tractor cresting a sharp hill. At this point, the shaft will be at its greatest extension. Mark it will a Sharpie, disconnect it, take it apart, and look at how much shaft you have left. If it doesn't look like you have enough shaft, I'd look at other potential issues before cutting it. Having a shaft come apart under power can't be good.

I'd consider the iMatch etc. if you had a wealth of attachments but the ROI doesn't seem like it's there if you're just dealing with a stubborn PTO shaft. I'm constantly changing 3PH attachments and, with practice, it's not a big deal. Just my .02. Other guys here like the easy change systems. They must have more money than me. ;-) Or maybe I have more time.

Once you've got the basic geometry sorted, the PTO hook up will go much easier if you keep everything clean and well-greased. I usually clean and brush my PTO connections with solvent a few times a year and then put a light coat of grease on everything. Pay particular attention to the spring-loaded pin on the female connection. I also buy WD-40 by the gallon and spray it all over everything in sight (including the bottom of the mower, which helps keep grass cuttings from accumulating there).

No worries on the stabilizer pins. A little slop there won't really hurt you, especially with a mower. Your draft links will move laterally a lot futher than the slop in those pins anyway. Just be sure to keep the pins tight, as they have a tendency to loosen.

Have fun!

 

[OtterBrookStables]

Hi Bob,

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with cutting the shaft down. That's the first thing I'd do. Cheap, easy, and bulletproof. My kinda fix.

Word of caution: if all this is "stock", it seems a little fishy that it doesn't work right "out of the box." Before you cut anything, you may want to connect it the hard way and simulate the geometry of the tractor/mower when the shaft will be at its longest. This will involve setting the top link adjustment where you want it, then driving the tractor's rear wheels up on some wheel ramps, etc. to simulate the tractor cresting a sharp hill. At this point, the shaft will be at its greatest extension. Mark it will a Sharpie, disconnect it, take it apart, and look at how much shaft you have left. If it doesn't look like you have enough shaft, I'd look at other potential issues before cutting it. Having a shaft come apart under power can't be good.

All good advice, for sure. You really need to make sure you don't cut the shaft too short - you can get major vibration (or worse) issues if you do. Then it's serious money to replace the shaft. As I said before, if you do go the iMatch hitch route, DO NOT cut the shaft until you try it first - the iMatch will set the implement back about 3-4 inches. Your existing shaft may work fine in that case. Good luck and let us kow how you resolve this.

 

[WorkPorter]

Wow! I'm truly impressed with all the responses. And relieved to learn I'm not putting my investment at risk with a little slop in the draft links and by attaching the pto first. I'm a little wary of cutting the driveline---entirely too irreversible for me at this stage. Sounds like my best bet (if I don't vastly improve my switching time) is a quick hitch. Previous posts suggest the iMatch is rather pricey and requires an adapter for each implement as well. I'm going to take a closer look at Pat's quick changer. Anyway, I feel much better about all this. Thanks a bunch!

Bob

 

[dex3361]

Wow! I'm truly impressed with all the responses. And relieved to learn I'm not putting my investment at risk with a little slop in the draft links and by attaching the pto first. I'm a little wary of cutting the driveline---entirely too irreversible for me at this stage. Sounds like my best bet (if I don't vastly improve my switching time) is a quick hitch. Previous posts suggest the iMatch is rather pricey and requires an adapter for each implement as well. I'm going to take a closer look at Pat's quick changer. Anyway, I feel much better about all this. Thanks a bunch!

Bob

Be aware that hooking up the PTO shaft (if its too long) and raising your tractors 3PH can damage your PTO by shoving the PTO shaft into the PTO of the tractor. the shaft extends and contracts as you raise and lower the equipment and as you make adjustments to the top link. Here is a good tutorial on
CUTTING YOUR PTO SHAFT TO THE PROPER SIZE.

 

[ctlguy]

Wow! I'm truly impressed with all the responses. And relieved to learn I'm not putting my investment at risk with a little slop in the draft links and by attaching the pto first. I'm a little wary of cutting the driveline---entirely too irreversible for me at this stage. Sounds like my best bet (if I don't vastly improve my switching time) is a quick hitch. Previous posts suggest the iMatch is rather pricey and requires an adapter for each implement as well. I'm going to take a closer look at Pat's quick changer. Anyway, I feel much better about all this. Thanks a bunch!

Bob

The adapters needed for each piece can be made very cheaply, it is a large bushing that goes from cat I to cat III. Buy some tractor supply special bushings in the I to II for draft links and some II to III for the same. Should not run more than about $4.00/ set. Other than that implements need to meet a true catagory I measurement to work with a quick hitch. I am pretty sure John Deere says it will not work but I believe there is still enough room for the Auto - Hitch set up as well. Although spendy it is a real backsaver as you do not have to leave the seat to hook up to the cutter and the d-line. I know a few people who have this setup for the last couple of years and seems to hold up well. Keeping in mind it is today only for Deere's cutters and tillers.

 

[RoyJackson]

I'm a little wary of cutting the driveline---entirely too irreversible for me at this stage.

Smart move...until you determine it's too long, it's better not to trim down a component that will cost you $150-$200 to replace. That isn't to say you won't have to, once you figure out the problem, but now is not the time to make irreversible decisions.

 

[rwinter]

I also have trouble getting the PTO shaft onto the tractor PTO. I know you need to do it to disconnect, but do you need to pull back the spring loaded collar to get it on--I waste a bit of energy on this and if not necessary, that would help?

Also I am not sure I can easily rotate the PTO shaft on the tractor to align the gears. I don't have a front PTO, just a rear, and the knob is always push in--PTO disengaged (and the tractor off) when I try.

 

[twarr1]

I always connect the shaft first. With tractor OFF, brake set, and PTO in Mid position. Much easier than trying to work in the limited space left after connecting the 3-point.

 

[RoyJackson]

Some folks posted warnings about damage to the tractor if the PTO shaft is too long.
Well, it can and it has...
But most times there is no good reason to raise any driven implement to the maximum height of the 3ph. Once that implement is clear of the ground, that's really all you need to go (use common sense here..."clear of the ground" means high enough to travel the area you're on without knocking the h*ll out of the implement).
Any higher then the minimum required does nothing more then raise the tractor's center of gravity...which is not what most of us want to do.
Just wanted to clarify a few earlier posts, including one of mine.