284 FEL help

[b dukes]

I have having an issue with my FEL. It only seems to work when you turn the steering all the way one way or the other. I took the valve body for the loader apart and cleaned it as well as the valve that is between the steering and the loader. Found nothing Any suggestions ?

 

[Rich Waugh]

I'd guess you have a steering cylinder that is bypassing. Get the rebuild kit form one of the dealers here and put it in and you should be okay again.

 

[J_J]

I have having an issue with my FEL. It only seems to work when you turn the steering all the way one way or the other. I took the valve body for the loader apart and cleaned it as well as the valve that is between the steering and the loader. Found nothing Any suggestions ?

Do you have a valve between the pump and the loader valve?

Do you have the hoses to the priority valve connected correctly.

If so, it is probably a priority valve, and uses a fixed amount of hyd GPM's for steering, and the rest of the pump flow for the loader, remotes and 3pt.

Far instance, say the pump puts out about 8 GPM's. The steering would get a fixed 3 GPM.

The other 5 GPM would be available for the rest of the hydraulic functions.

The GPM's output of the pump is dictated by the engine rpm, so the engine has to be above a certain rpm to have flow above the priority flow.

If you run the engine at med to high rpm, you should have enough flow.

If you install a 3000 psi hyd gage in the loader circuit, you can monitor and trouble the hyd system.



.

 

[b dukes]

Thanks , I will have to get a metric fitting for my gauge tomorrow. After working on it some more the FEL will work without turning the steering , but you have to hold the lever on the valve in one position for a length of time. Then it will move but real jerky. Oh and I installed a new pump near the end of last year. Probably have about 20 hrs on it since.

The 3PH works fine and I have removed the balls from all the QC

 

[RonMar]

ANd let me guess, it only moves slowly when the steering is at a stop? It sounds like the relief valve in the loader control is bypassing. If the loader control cannot build pressure, it cannot move the loader. By turning the sterring all the way to it's stop and causing it to relieve, it then provides enough backpressure to the loader to allow it to move?

 

[J_J]

Can you verify that the pump fluid goes through a separate valve before it goes to the steering valve or the loader valve.

As I mentioned above, some hyd systems have a priority valve that always insures the steering circuit has enough fluid to operate the steering.

 

[b dukes]

The way it is plumbed now ,it goes from the pump in the loader valve , out the loader valve to the priority valve.

 

[J_J]

That is not the logical way to plumb the steering valve.

Did you or someone do it as an after market or is it a factory setup.

The reason I question this set up, is that if the loader valve were using all the fluid for cyl and motors and such, there would be no fluid left for the steering, and that could be a safety factor.

The steering is not on a separate pump, is it?

Do you have a schematic of your hyd system?

 

[SPIKER]

I'm with Ronmar on this one, the Loader Valve Relief is stuck open, it is letting fluid bypass the valve. possibly a broken spring and or a O-Ring has let go. I had mine apart a LONG time ago so can;t remember WHAT it was like inside anymore.

My system is plumbed form the Pump thru QD to the Loader then out the PB out to steering divertor and into the 3pt valve to sump. The steering is affected by FULL FEL valve movement as it cuts off flow to the divertor valve & was way they ran them circa 2002 like mine.

Mark

 

[J_J]

I remember RonMar's hyd schematic now.

Remove the relief valve on the FEL valve and check springs, and seat for any debris.

 

[b dukes]

This is a new to me tractor. When I bought it the FEL was not working properly. I took the valve body apart but didn't find anything out of place. Maybe something is missing I don't know. Without the FEL on the 3PH and the steering works smooth and perfect. When I took the Priority valve apart there was nut on the end , a keeper for the spring , spring and a piston at the bottom with a small hole in it. The valve body for the loader appears to have some damage on the end of the spool where the handle attached. Looks like someone has hit it with a hammer and mushroomed the end some. No orings were damaged on the spool seat or where the blocks mate together. On the relief valve for the loader, the top nut was removed , inside was a spring and a piston with holes which were clear. On the bottom side where the adjustment was , there was a spring on a cone that goes into a hole. I polished the cone with a scotchbrite pad. No sign of damage to the cone or wear. Maybe this will help.

I wish I had a diagram for the hydraulic system.

 

[Affordable]

Send a pic of your loader valve, worst case you can replace the loader valve we keep them in stock

Tommy
Affordable Tractor Sales Co
"Your Jinma Parts Superstore"
Home of compact Jinma, Foton, and Koyker Tractors and Parts, Wood Chippers, Backhoes - Affordable Tractor Sales Company

 

[erj]

b dukes
Get that gauge hooked up between the pump and the loader valve. It is very dangerous to be fiddling with the relief valves without knowing what the pressure is.
RonJ

 

[b dukes]

To try to isolate my problem I disconnected the FEL from the tractors hydraulic system.I found some fittings today and installed a gauge between the pump and the priority valve. The only high pressure gauge I had was for 10,000 psi. When I cranked the tractor I could see about 100-200 psi. at idle. When you move the steering or the 3PH it would climb to about 1500 psi. at the most if deadheaded. Where is the relief valve for the system located? Is there a better place to check system pressure. According to the manual I should see about 2250 psi. I should see the rated pressure that the relief valve is set on at the pump discharge if it is set up like most hydraulic systems. I am beginning to think the problem is in the tractor not the loader at his point. What about the priority valve. Could it not working properly dump to tank and cause loss of pressure?

 

[J_J]

You should have installed the hyd gage before the first valve, which is the loader valve.

When you max out the cyl with full extend, the gage should read the relief pressure.

A lot of hyd steering system run at about 1500 psi. The steering would have it's own relief valve.

 

[RonMar]

With a loader on a 284, there is PRV in the loader valve, and a second one back in the 3PH control valve. How are you loading it with the 3PH? The 3PH will(should) disengage itself before it reaches full height to keep drom possibly damaging the piston seals. You really need to either put something on the 3PH that is way too heavy for it to lift, or you may be able to close the 3PH speed reg valve completely by screwing the round valve handle down in front of the seat, fully clockwise. This will prevent fluid from flowing into the 3PH cylinder and force it to pass thru the 3PH relief. Then you can get an accurate reading of how the 3PH releif is performing.

The steering system dosn't build full system hydraulic pressure as it can relieve directly back into the hydraulic reservoir, and the priority valve limits the flow into steering somewhat. At any rate, I have a gauge permenantly installed at my loader input, and only ever see maybe 500 PSY when the steering is at the end stops.

I think it is unlikley that the rest of the system is causing the loader problem. You MUST build pressure to perform hydraulic work, and the loader control valve must do this in order to send pressure to the loader cylinders, so the most likley issue is the relief in the loader not allowing pressure to be built. As ERJ mentioned, you need to get your valve "T"d off of the main line between pump and loader, so you can observe what pressure is developing on that main line when you command a loader movement.

 

[b dukes]

First I would like to thank everyone for the help you have given me. It helps to have a better understanding of how the system works. Is this the way this system functions. I assume now by the pressures I am seeing that the tractor has a open spool system. The reason I am not seeing an pressure at idle except 150 psi , is that is the back pressure of it dumping to the tank. When a lever is moved it starts to use the oil that was dumping and then builds pressure until the relief valve bring the pressure down or the lever is returned to a open position and starts dumping to tank again. I plumbed the loader back into the tractors hydraulic system and installed the gauge on the discharge of the pump into the loader valve. Added fluid to the proper level since I had lost some due to taking the hoses on and off. Cranked the tractor and worked the lift and the FEL up and down several time. The 3PH has a qiuck responce. Checked fluid level again just to make sure. Next , moved the loader lever to the up position , no change in psi ,it takes about 30 sec. then the pressure starts to rise , loader moved up at normal speed smoothly. The same thing happens on the curl for the bucket. When it reached the end of the up stroke pressure rose to 1800 psi. I repeated this several times changing the setting of the relief valve which the change would show up when the loader cylinder reached the end of its stroke. So it seems now the only problem I have is the lag time from when the lever for the loader is moved until I see movement.???

The knob under the seat adjust the free fall of the lift speed? I can't get mine to move. There is a set screw on the front of the housing about an inch below the knob is that something to lock it in place. Mine has flat head on it which is damaged. And would probably have to be removed and drilled out.

 

[RonMar]

That knob in front of the seat is the 3PH lowering speed regulator. It is fairly fine thread and they can corrode in place. The little set screw you mentioned must be removed to completely unscrew and remove that speed reg valve. It has no effect in the valves normal operation range. Probably there to keep the operator from inadvertently removing it all the way as full system pressure can be found under that valve At the end of the threaded shaft opposite the round handle is a little valve seat pinned to a slot in the end of the shaft. The fluid flows up against this seat and pushes it out of the way when lifting so the impliment raises at full speed. When lowering, the moveable tib on the end drops back down into the valve body and restricts flow leaving the 3PH cylinder so the heavy impliment dosn't slam into the ground. IF closed too much, it will act like a checkvalve and hold the impliment in the air. You can also not unscrew the valve with hydraulic pressure on top of the valve tip as it locks it into place in the valve seat. I have had to back the 3PH into a bank to unload the system so I could unscrew that valve. There is a rollpin that holds the handle to the end of the shaft and you can drive that pin out and put a wrench on the square end of the shaft to help work it free. I just broke my handle a week ago when I got it stuck with an impliment in the air

Yes, the loader control is open center. The delay in pressure build you are experiencing is an unusual problem. I could see the system being low on fluid and drawing air instead of fluid might cause a delay, but that should be a one time event once the system is primed. You would also see problems in steering and 3PH response which you do not appear to have. Are you able to adjust the relief valve up over 2000 PSI? 2200-2300 should be a good safe working pressure. If you are not able to predictably and consistently adjust the relief valve, then I would say there is a problem with it. If you search, Erj posted some excellent relief valve pics once upon a time(or were those for a BH relief valve?)

 

[b dukes]

Yeah I broke the handle off on my valve today also. I put a wrench on the flat but was scared to try to hard to move it , didn't want to damage anything before asking about it. I tapped on the top a few times with a hammer and put some penetrating oil on it. I will try again tomorrow. Yeah my problem is unusual but that's the norm for me.:laughing: The only thing I can think of next to try is taking the priority valve apart again. I took the poppet and spring out of the port that faces toward the driver , washed it out and ran a magnet around in the hole before., but looking at the valve closer , there is a nut on the bottom at the valve next to the inlet port that I didn't remove or see before. Not sure what's in there and didn't have time today to take it apart. The way the valve seems to operate it should be some type of check , but not sure. So that's what's next. I was able to see 2300 psi on the relief valve setting but that's the highest I tried to get. The system for the tractor said 2250 was normal. Didn't want to damage anything.

I have had the tractor about two years now and cut grass for two seasons with it. I used a 5 ft bush hog finishing mower and have about a five acre yard. Being able to adjust the rate of fall on the lift would save some banging on my mower. I haven't had any problems with the lift or the steering ever. But since the FEL was just lying around I wanted to see if I could get it operational ,it sure would be a big help sometimes.

 

[erj]

Those pictures were for the JW03 backhoe relief valve. Don't have any pictures for a FEL relief valve since I have never had a problem with it.
RonJ