2185 oil use WAY up this year

[Ford tractor]

Hi,

My 2185 mower was bought new in 1999 or so. It has been a good machine for cutting about 2 acres of lawn. But...

This year it started using oil. It will give a bit of blue smoke when throttling down or up, but does not smoke when running or even smell like burning oil. Can't find a leak. Never did it before, but now it is down about 1/2 to 2/3 of a QT after each mowing. I check that stuff before each mow and have been scratching my head over it. It just started. The service manual for the Kohler engine shows that the vent line may be clogged, but it flows brake cleaner easily. ( tested right before oil change / new filter)


What else to check? What else to do?

A new mower is out of the $$ question thanks to being one of the Obama-unemployed. So this one has to be fixed and hopefully for little $$.

Thanks

 

[Gator6x4]

I am afraid the time has come to put new rings in the engine. New rings, a gasket kit, which contains all gasket needed along with new valve stems seals and the front and rear crankcase seals. Kohler also recommends a new governor be installed. You will need a tube of red RTV to use as gasket material for the front crankcase cover. If you are lucky and do not need a piston or rod your out of pocket will be some wheres around $250.00 if you do the work. You can go to the Kohler web site and download a manual for your engine. The manual will provide how-to-do-it and torque specs. HF has a cheap cylinder glaze buster, piston ring compressor and a valve spring compressor if you do not have these items.

 

[highboy1975]

i would at least attempt to do the job yourself first. at least you will have tried, and it wont cost you anymore money. just have to be very organized. also, you more than likely lost your job, as did i, due to the aftermath of the horrible republican trade policies. they want to tell us we live in a global economy, then they shouldnt be able to use wages and cost of living differences against us.

 

[JTKub]

Which model engine are we talking about? If it still runs strong and isn't a mosquito fogger 100% of the time, I'd switch to 15w40 or even a 20w50 engine oil to see if that helps. It won't hurt a thing.

Joel

 

[Ford tractor]

Which model engine are we talking about? If it still runs strong and isn't a mosquito fogger 100% of the time, I'd switch to 15w40 or even a 20w50 engine oil to see if that helps. It won't hurt a thing.

Joel

18 horse kohler. I could look at the tag in the AM if that matters. Will try some diesel oil. It is running as good as ever. Never bogs down even when it's full of wet grass wads in the 48" deck. Never even slows down, and only smokes as I said when idling down or throttling up.

How many hours should these Kohlers provide? It has 400ish and I would expected a great deal more. But, the other engines were all Brigg's or Tecumseh.

also, you more than likely lost your job, as did i, due to the aftermath of the horrible republican trade policies

No, Demoncrat NAFTA from Clinton and Obama's taxes have made it" more favorable to move operations elsewhere ". Headcount shedding prior to the 800B tax whack from health care "reform" and the projected 300% increase in the cost of health insurance. But, I don't want to turn this into a politics curmudgeon session - I think both major parties stink and should be kicked out and replaced with some "tea".

Hope your back on your feet soon!

I am afraid the time has come to put new rings in the engine. New rings, a gasket kit, which contains all gasket needed along with new valve stems seals and the front and rear crankcase seals. Kohler also recommends a new governor be installed. You will need a tube of red RTV to use as gasket material for the front crankcase cover. If you are lucky and do not need a piston or rod your out of pocket will be some wheres around $250.00 if you do the work.

Good Lord! $250 for rings and gaskets for 2 cylinders? :confused2: I can do a whole flipp'n small block ford or chev for that ! At least I used to back in the '90s when last I rebuilt one. Oh well.

 

[highboy1975]

well, if you could do a whole smallblock ford or chev for that price, put one of those in. i have over 2500 in my 390 without a carb and i didnt even touch the bottome end. and that was a few years ago, if the motor has only 400 some hrs on it, i wouldnt assume its time for a rebuild. have you checked the oil drain plug to make sure it isnt leaking? i think a compression test is in order to see where the rings are at. i would do a compression check (i dont know what the compression numbers should be for this motor), and go from there. as far as nafta, that was heavily republican pushed, although signed in by clinton, it wouldnt have been able to be stopped by him. i agree with you about both parties stinking, but obama was put in charge of a sinking ship. i accept the global economy, but if a china man can live on 2$ a day, i should be able to as well. i would accept a huge pay cut if i could still live on it, but i cant, so i won't. this is where the problem comes into play. but anyway, get a compression test done, and recomendations can be made from there. i would think your losing oil somewhere else at this point. the compression numbers will tell the whole story of the engines life.

 

[highboy1975]

i race go-karts, with 5hp briggs motors, and they always ran best right before they blew up. as far as the politics goes, if we must accept a global economy, and a global wage, we should also accept a global standard of living cost, and a global health care rate. like i said prior, do a compression test, and we'll go from there.

 

[Ford tractor]

well, if you could do a whole smallblock ford or chev for that price, put one of those in. i have over 2500 in my 390 without a carb and i didnt even touch the bottome end. .

Just rings and gasket set. Rings were like 50-60 bucks for 10 over and gaskets were about the same.

Just checked JEGS and a 4.000 moly ring std set can be had for under 40 bucks. Cast rings are cheaper at $29.99. That's the price for a set for 8 pistons. Compression rings and oil rings.

 

[SHUNKSTER]

I would try the 10W40 oil, Term Limits, and try some Riselone engine treatment, incumbments must go, and before , Tea Party Good, I tear the engine apart, It woun't cost , unlike Obama, much to try.

 

[ToadHill]

I'd check all the breathers on any engine that uses oil. I've had more than one engine start to use oil when breathers get dirty or almost blocked with crud.

 

[Ford tractor]

I would try the 10W40 oil, Term Limits, and try some Riselone engine treatment, incumbments must go, and before , Tea Party Good, I tear the engine apart, It woun't cost , unlike Obama, much to try.

Good post there, "Mr Subliminal":laughing: Gota go drink some TEA...

I'd check all the breathers on any engine that uses oil. I've had more than one engine start to use oil when breathers get dirty or almost blocked with crud.

Yeah, will do.

It has 15w40 in it now, will have to see how it likes that.

 

[JTKub]

18 horse kohler....How many hours should these Kohlers provide? It has 400ish and I would expected a great deal more.

It's not unheard of to reach 2000hrs with a maintained Command series. Like said, could be a breather problem. With it running as good as you say, run the 15w40 and keep on mowin'. I wouldn't tear it down until it smokes really bad and looses power.

Joel

 

[Gator6x4]

I would be careful about running until it smokes real bad. Kohler engines will use a lot of oil and not smoke that bad, and then one day bang. The Kohler engines only hold approximately two quarts of oil. With the oil loss you are reporting one day all the oil will leave the engine and a very expensive cure will then present it self.

 

[CJ-8_Jim]

I had the same problem happen to me on a similiar engine -- a 2004 GT3235 with 140 hours on a Kohler Command 730 (CH25)... aka 25 hp V twin.

My problem related to the #1 cylinder rocker arm bolts loosening up about 1" each and destroying the intake valve guide. I didn't figure this out (and would have never suspected it) until the intake push rod became disengaged and blew a hole in the valve cover.

Oil consumption was significantly increasing like you due to the destroyed valve intake until the engine failed all together.

 

[Ford tractor]

I down loaded a manual for the engine. Looks like there is a LOT of stuff to get to the actual breather under the carb pan. Guess it's gotta be done...

 

[Eagleview]

I to think you have a problem with valve guides . Smoking under deceleration is a dead give away . Pull the tappet cover off and check for loose valves , if they wobble when the rockers are loose (tdc compression stroke) you have found the problem .

 

[CJ-8_Jim]

I down loaded a manual for the engine. Looks like there is a LOT of stuff to get to the actual breather under the carb pan. Guess it's gotta be done...

I just rebuilt one of these 2 weeks ago.

Why do you want to pull the breather (and risk screwing up your carburator as well as your throttle/choke linkage settings) when all you need to do is pull the valve covers and visually inspect the valve guides and rocker arm bolts?

Pulling the breather first is foolish.

This breather is a different design than your typical breather... very large for the size of the engine and very protected. As such, it is not meant to be a servicable item (hence it's buried under the carburator and all the choke/throttle linkages).

Instead, simply take both of your valve covers off and look at the valve guides on each side of the engine... see if they are still in one piece. Worst case is that one or more has completely shattered (like I experienced) and as a result has left a 1/2" hole for oil to drain down into the combustion chamber... a 1/2" hole will burn a lot of oil fast. Also visually look to see if your rocker arm bolts have loosened (backed out).

Checking both these things are pretty easy and require only visual inspection.

If you don't see visual damage under the valve covers, next take the spark plugs out and stick your finger (or one of those telescoping magnets) into the spark plug hole. Fish around the bottom of the combustion chamber (especially beneath the sparkplug hole) looking/feeling around for shrapnel from destroyed valve guides (ROTATE THE CRANKSHAFT FIRST TO TDC BEFORE FISHING AROUND FOR SHRAPNEL). You should do this too because the top of the valve guide may appear intack when removing the valve cover, but the bottom of it is in pieces blowing around the cylinder walls scratching them up (another way you'll burn oil besides buring oil coming down throuh the 1/2" hole left by a shattered valve guide).


If you do decide to tackle the breather first....
Besides running the risk of messing up your choke and throttle settings (e.g., not getting the springs in the right hole for your engine and application, stretching the springs by trying to skip disassembly steps to just get to the breather, getting dirt down the carb, etc.), you should also buy a breather gasket... you're going to need it if you pull the carb off.

 

[Gator6x4]

I think if you do decide to pull the carb, cylinder head shrouds, ect to get to the breather you will ask your self afterwards,now what did I do that for? Something that is not published about Kohler engines is if a head gasket is loose the engine will consume oil. Since you said the engine only has 400 hours on it this may be your problem. Can you hear a hissing sound when the engine is running? Have you done a compression test? If you do not have a compression gauge and do not want to buy a cheap one at HF one can be rented at Auto Zone, O'Rileys or Advance. I would highly recommend a compression test before starting any type repair. If you remove the rocker arm covers look down inside the valve spring on the intake valve to where the valve stem enters the head, are the valve guide seals intact?

 

[Ford tractor]

see if they are still in one piece. Worst case is that one or more has completely shattered (like I experienced) and as a result has left a 1/2" hole for oil to drain down into the combustion chamber... a 1/2" hole will burn a lot of oil fast. Also visually look to see if your rocker arm bolts have loosened (backed out).

Checking both these things are pretty easy and require only visual inspection.

If you don't see visual damage under the valve covers, next take the spark plugs out and stick your finger (or one of those telescoping magnets) into the spark plug hole. Fish around the bottom of the combustion chamber (especially beneath the sparkplug hole) looking/feeling around for shrapnel from destroyed valve guides (ROTATE THE CRANKSHAFT FIRST TO TDC BEFORE FISHING AROUND FOR SHRAPNEL). You should do this too because the top of the valve guide may appear intack when removing the valve cover, but the bottom of it is in pieces blowing around the cylinder walls scratching them up (another way you'll burn oil besides buring oil coming down throuh the 1/2" hole left by a shattered valve guide).

.

Well, the manual lists breather issues as the most probable reason for oil use. It's a common cause on various boards where Kohler oil use is a problem.

Plus, I had no idea that the guides could "shatter" ! What are they made of? Plastic? Are they pressed in?

Thanks! Anybody that wants to save me time and effort is a buddy !

 

[CJ-8_Jim]

Well, the manual lists breather issues as the most probable reason for oil use. It's a common cause on various boards where Kohler oil use is a problem.

Plus, I had no idea that the guides could "shatter" ! What are they made of? Plastic? Are they pressed in?

Thanks! Anybody that wants to save me time and effort is a buddy !

Your symptions of rapid oil consumption strangely coinciding with little/no blue smoke are the same symptoms I had and hence the reason for my previous valve guide inspection advice (also listed below as #2).

Here are three things that I would investigate BEFORE looking at the breather:

1) Up until mid 2004 (not sure when the problem first started), Kohler had an issue with headbolts stretching. This caused a series of problems (including oil consumption). The fix was new headbolts that are thicker shafts, but the same diameter/thread as the old ones.

2) To a lesser extent also at this time, there sounds like there was some different types of sproadic valve guide problems. These valve guides are steel press-ins into the aluminum head. In my situation, the rocker bolts loosened causing undue stress on a valve guide which shattered causing rapid oil consumption and little/no blue smoke (the same symptoms strangely occur at the sametime that you describe).

3) Since the early 2000s, Kolhler is now using a rubber seal on the exhaust valve guide as well as the intake valve guide. I suspect that in the 1990s, neither valve guide had a rubber seal on it (I don't know that for sure though). Those rubber seals prevent oil from passing into the combustion chamber and burning.