2007 Toolcat - no traction, stiff suspension, differential lock?

[Mudninja]

I recently purchased a used Toolcat. A 2007 5600. Always thought they looked very handy and wanted one. Found one that was extremely rusty but at a good price. I've set out restoring it. One thing that has surprised me is how little traction the machine has. It gets stuck at even the slightest spot where the plane it is driving on becomes not flat. Reading more info, I hear that this is a common finding with the toolcat. Was hoping it would be more like my skid steer. Questions I have for others that have them (as I don't even have another in my area to compare it to):

• The front a-arms have zero movement. The a arms rest on the rubber bushings all the time. When loaded, unloaded and even when I have lifted the entire machine off the ground on a lift. Is that normal? The rear a-arms have a good amount of travel. It's like the front is just for looks and is really a solid assembly.
• The moment the machine encounters any type of uneven ground, one of the wheels comes off the ground in front and rear (caddy corner). At that point it obviouslly stops and spins. I see nothing on this machine that provides the option to lock the differential. As such, the wheel with the least resistance (the one off the ground) spins and the one on the ground just sets there. I have discovered that if I get a run at it, I can overcome the issue in some cases by getting through it before the momentum stops. I've read posts on this forum where there is a rear differential lock. Wondering if that was an option that my machine did not come with spec'd out.
• The whole lack of a diff lock is so frustrating, I've reviewed the service manual and am contemplating welding the rear dif solid. Has anyone ever done that or added a lock to a tool cat? At that point it should behave like my Polaris RZR. I drive it mostly in areas where I am not worried about disturbing the soil, so it shouldn't cause an issue from that perspective.
• It is also worth noting that the dump bed is being remade. The other one was so rusty it self destructed the first time I used it. Hoping that additional weight will help the traction matters some.

Appreciate the time and hoping to share some ideas. Thanks.

 

[Xfaxman]

The front a-arms have zero movement. The a arms rest on the rubber bushings all the time. When loaded, unloaded and even when I have lifted the entire machine off the ground on a lift. Is that normal? The rear a-arms have a good amount of travel. It's like the front is just for looks and is really a solid assembly.

I have no experience with the D Series, but would think that it should move just like the F Series does.

Raised the front wheels off the ground:

A arms are hanging down:

And compress the rubber with weight in the bucket:

 

[ruffdog]

Maybe the rubber snubbers get old and stiff. If they do, you would lose your limited wheel articulation.

 

[laurencen]

regardless of the rubber block when the machine is lifted up the arms should allow the axle to drop, something is preventing the arms moving, when no load is on the front the rubber bumpers should not be touching, my current machine has traction control my old one had rear axle lock, its setup always had one front and rear powered so something is not working on yours

 

[Mudninja]

Appreciate the help everyone. The photo above with the a-arms gapped below the rubber bushing when up in the air is just what I needed to see. Mine do not drop. Something must be froze up in the shock or a-arms I am betting. Will have to dig in and will let you know what I find out.

Laurencen, I do get one front and one rear going but that is a much as it will do. I will need to investigate why the rear axle lock isn't working. From the service manual, I can't see anything that goes to the rear differential that would actuate it. There is a "brake" hydraulic hose that runs to it to engage the brake, but that is all.

 

[laurencen]

on my older machine it had a doff lock switch on the middle console, what I found it only worked when the steering was in 2 wheel and the wheels were straight and light lit on console, also only in low speed not high range,

 

[npartist]

If you weld your diff you won't be able to steer that axle (well you CAN but it won't work well).

 

[Mudninja]

If you weld your diff you won't be able to steer that axle (well you CAN but it won't work well).

I think it would behave much like my Polaris RZR. It has a solid rear axle (no dif). When you turn it tears the heck out of what ever is under it. Where I live, this isn't an issue. Am I missing something that would prevent the rear steering from actually steering with the welded dif? I think it would still steer, just scrub the tires as it turns as they would both be turning at the same revolutions.

 

[Mudninja]

on my older machine it had a doff lock switch on the middle console, what I found it only worked when the steering was in 2 wheel and the wheels were straight and light lit on console, also only in low speed not high range,

Thank you. Unfortunately, I see no diff lock switch on the middle console. I've read about the 2 wheel steering and rear wheels straight requirement. One thing for certain, my rear wheel sensor needs some attention. I never have gotten the little green light to come on indicating the rear wheels are straight. I have to look outside and verify for myself. This may be my problem. With that said, however, I still do not see anything in the service manual for the rear differential that has anything to do with a locker. Only thing running to it is the brake hose.

 

[npartist]

Thank you. Unfortunately, I see no diff lock switch on the middle console. I've read about the 2 wheel steering and rear wheels straight requirement. One thing for certain, my rear wheel sensor needs some attention. I never have gotten the little green light to come on indicating the rear wheels are straight. I have to look outside and verify for myself. This may be my problem. With that said, however, I still do not see anything in the service manual for the rear differential that has anything to do with a locker. Only thing running to it is the brake hose.

The only use I know of a welded/locked steered axle in a high mu use case is FWD road racing. They get the benefit of traction (some understeer penalty on turn in) for corner exit but they will note how teribble the car is in the paddock at low speed if they try to turn sharp at all (typically less than 90deg steering wheel angle, 1/3? max steer). This not only cause the tires to skip/hop but it also loads up the driveline. If you are going to be on a very soft/low mu surface then it will probably work out ok but if you drive pavement and expect to do steering on that axle I don't think it will work out well. However, if you do it please video it cause I'm interested to see! Note that with 4WS the % difference of inside to outside tire "ideal radius" is bigger than in 2WS and thus will cause more binding.

 

[laurencen]

its been a few years since I looked at the locking axle but this is how I recall it, the wheels have to be straight and normal steer setting, low speed and on mine it was hit and miss, my rear left steering was not aligned due to changing the bearings on the pinions, the original bearings were seized solid and axle would not turn,

short story the wheel alignment is a potentiometer on the knuckle, I spent a few hours tinkering to get it to light with wheel straight, its not as simple as it seems the dealer can set it but a few hundred dollars.

locking is by hydraulic pressure to the axle, front and rear can be locked as they are the same they do not run the line to front. I played some with a hand pump and successfully locked the axle manually, planned on adding a Tee to lock the front but when the drive motor started floating I traded it off.

the service manual had the details in how the locking works but I sent it with the trade.

not sure I would weld it could end up with a whole new issue thats not reversible

 

[Mudninja]

Actually got more time on the ToolCat last week. Just had a new dump bed made for it. The original was a rusted mess. Like everyone states, when the 2 wheel steering is on and the rear wheels are straight, I actually could tell a difference. Still had to be careful with unlevel ground, but something actually seems to be improving traction in the rear. could be the added weight I had in the bed even. Everyone keeps saying there is a line running to the rear axle, but I can't find it. Even the service manual only talks about a "brake" line. Nothing about a differential hydraulic line. I am thinking maybe my series didn't have that option. Looks to be some type of auto locker like in a car, where it may limit slip if the conditions are perfect.

 

[laurencen]

my 2005 series A had the diff lock, solid axle, its been a few years since I played with it but both front and rear axle are the same, both can be locked and I did use a portapower to lock the front, at that time I was going to add a tee to the line and valve so when stuck I could lock both axles, I did a post on this at that time

My service manual had some info in there but I passed it on to the new owner, I will look on line for it again and see what is there

here is one discussion toolcat 5600 diff lock.

 

[Mudninja]

Update... First off, I wanted to say thanks to aelsnow for the new rear fenders. His generosity and contribution to my project can not be overstated.

Last night I removed the front wheels to get new tires on them and actually got a chance to mess around with the A arms. For the several months that I have owned the machine, the arms have yet to move. They have been resting on the stops since day one. Even when lifting the front end in the air.

So last night I started removing the shock bolts/nuts and A arm bolts/nuts to see what I could find. Amazingly when I got to the 4th and final bolt for the Driver side A arm and started to loosen it up, the entire assembly "popped" and returned to its normal unloaded state. I proceeded to remove each bolt, apply grease and reinstall. Does anyone know of any other way to lubricate these joints. I don't see any zerk fittings.

Same thing happened on the Passenger side. Unfortunately on the passenger side the rubber bump stops stayed with the A-arm because the bolts that hold them to the mount had rusted out of the rubber mounts. I imaging the drivers sides are close. Will work on replacing those next.

I am anxious to get the new tires under it and see what happens when I set it back down.