20' X 24' Pole barn on 25% slope - best method?

[Egon]

Forget any of my suggestions. I did not read the original post properly!!

 

[Rustyiron]

Going to do this one time so the $$$ are not really an issue.

It's a good suggestion, had thought of this but I wasn't sure about the post construction on top of a standard foundation with footers. I had read somewhere about "wet anchors" for posts to be placed in the concrete slab, but you'd have know with total certainty where you wanted them.

You may be surprised what you're Amish crew can do (scope of job).
If they don't do the footers/poured wall portion, they can supply your concrete guy with the "Perma column" base's. They offer like you said, a wet dip that is put in the concrete just after the top of the forms are struck to elevation. They also have a drill and bolt bracket that can be done anytime after although I'd wait 14 days to let the concrete cure some.
This concrete option would also open you to conventional framing (16" or 24" o/c) and that's the best way to go if you plan on insulation and interior finishing.
The exterior finishes can be the same as a "pole barn" and you'd have the same cost advantage there. It's been my experience that the whole pole barn "thing" is a relatively inexpensive shelter for agricultural needs. The pole barn savings are in;
There's no foundation (huge)

Very little lumber (and labor) per sq/ft.

The fast and inexpensive. exterior.

If you have any thoughts of tricking this out, (with the concrete foundation) price out conventional framing and work those numbers. I learned this on one of my own buildings that had post on 8' centers, ended up framing inside 16" o/c for the insulation and wall finishes.
If you have a foundation for other reasons, (your aesthetics) that interior wall that is built to simply something to attach a good r19 insulation and drywall, it may as well hold up the building.
Too long, sorry but I hope it makes sense.

 

[DwayneB2021]

Forget any of my suggestions. I did not read the original post properly!!

No worries Egon. Good to hear any and all ideas.

 

[DwayneB2021]

Appreciate s219 taking the time to post those photos and all of these suggestions it gives me a lot to think about. Unfortunately my site is steep with a 25% grade. Attached is a photo I took with some dimensions.

Tomorrow will talk to a couple of other contractors about this - one is a concrete guy that wanted to do a "monolithic slab" which as I remember, was where walls and slab were poured at the same time. I'm sure that won't be cheap and is likely overkill but would like to get the cost of that too.

 

[DwayneB2021]

You may be surprised what you're Amish crew can do (scope of job).
If they don't do the footers/poured wall portion, they can supply your concrete guy with the "Perma column" base's. They offer like you said, a wet dip that is put in the concrete just after the top of the forms are struck to elevation. They also have a drill and bolt bracket that can be done anytime after although I'd wait 14 days to let the concrete cure some.
This concrete option would also open you to conventional framing (16" or 24" o/c) and that's the best way to go if you plan on insulation and interior finishing.
The exterior finishes can be the same as a "pole barn" and you'd have the same cost advantage there. It's been my experience that the whole pole barn "thing" is a relatively inexpensive shelter for agricultural needs. The pole barn savings are in;
There's no foundation (huge)

Very little lumber (and labor) per sq/ft.

The fast and inexpensive. exterior.

If you have any thoughts of tricking this out, (with the concrete foundation) price out conventional framing and work those numbers. I learned this on one of my own buildings that had post on 8' centers, ended up framing inside 16" o/c for the insulation and wall finishes.
If you have a foundation for other reasons, (your aesthetics) that interior wall that is built to simply something to attach a good r19 insulation and drywall, it may as well hold up the building.
Too long, sorry but I hope it makes sense.

No that makes perfect sense. I guess what you are saying is that once you have built a costly foundation there is no particular magic in a pole barn structure, might just as well be a stick built garage. Since this building is somewhat visible and near the house (its not out in the back 40) a stick built might have more options for appearance. Not sure at this point if I'd trick this out on the interior, but at least we'd have that option with the stick built. Another approach to think about.

 

[3Ts]

Your situation is ideal for a monolithic slab. I have one that was poured at the end of my barn where one corner is 6' above finished grade. The slab portion is 15' wide and 75' long. One end is 3' above grade, the other 6' above grade. The way it was formed is that the exterior form work was put up and filled and compacted on the inside. Then the walls were dug out along the form boards. Rebar put in and then concrete poured so there are no joints and since I'd planned a steel roof, weld plates were embedded in the concrete before it set up.

The far corner is 6' above grade.

 

[ultrarunner]

Must be great to off load the pickup having your own private loading dock...

 

[DwayneB2021]

Your situation is ideal for a monolithic slab. I have one that was poured at the end of my barn where one corner is 6' above finished grade. The slab portion is 15' wide and 75' long. One end is 3' above grade, the other 6' above grade. The way it was formed is that the exterior form work was put up and filled and compacted on the inside. Then the walls were dug out along the form boards. Rebar put in and then concrete poured so there are no joints and since I'd planned a steel roof, weld plates were embedded in the concrete before it set up.

The far corner is 6' above grade.
View attachment 717417

That is a heavy duty barn! Thanks for the photo, yes that's exactly what the contractor was proposing a couple of years ago when I had some other slabs poured. Should have had it done back then I am certain the cost will be up 50% today. Your lot is less steep (mine goes from 0' to 6' over 24') but seems like the principal would be the same.

 

[Egon]

No worries Egon. Good to hear any and all ideas.

With the reread I’d suggest poured concrete walls filled with dirt and a concrete slab on top of that. The walls should have a few support abutments at 90 degrees to prevent bowing out of walls where they have the deepest fill. This should give a solid base that can be built on with no rot or support problems.

Excavating a little at the front may save a bit on concrete costs but is location dependant.

 

[DwayneB2021]

With the reread I’d suggest poured concrete walls filled with dirt and a concrete slab on top of that. The walls should have a few support abutments at 90 degrees to prevent bowing out of walls where they have the deepest fill. This should give a solid base that can be built on with no rot or support problems.

Excavating a little at the front may save a bit on concrete costs but is location dependant.

Yes I went out to the site again this morning and that's my conclusion too. So now it's off to get some quotes on the monolithic slab like "3ts" showed in his photo. Hopefully I can find someone to do this whole project, concrete + barn/garage construction.