180 questions

[tnjind]

I have a I believe, MT180D. Its 4 wheel drive with a 3 cylinder diesel. This tractor was in a garage that burned down. It's current wiring is just enough to run it (starter key switch, push button for glow plugs, one wire alternator) I would like to re wire it.

1. What size should I fuse it for the glow plugs?

2. What length of time for glowplug operation? I will probably use a timing relay.

3. Also this machine has blown up two batteries since I have had it, about 5 years or so, always while cranking with a really low charge, never any other time.
Would the starter cause this? Maybe the fire damaged the bearings allowing the internals to touch shorting??
The one-wire alternator has never put out over 14.8 volts everytime I have checked it at different RPMs.

Thanks for any and all help

Tim.

 

[George2615]

1) Most tractors with glow plugs use a glow plug relay and a timer. The relay may be fused for as little as 5 amps. The relay applies direct voltage 10-12V to the glow plugs either thru a timer or manual push button.
2) Glow plug timers usually run for 5-10 seconds. You can just use the manual glow plug button for the same amount of time.
3) Batteries usually blow up when the electrolite (sulfuric acid) is low in the cells. This allows a lot of gas buildup in the cells where acid should be. From there it only takes a small spark to ignite and create an explosion. It sounds like your alternator is overcharging which boils out the acid. Once started the alternator may show 14.8V but the built in regulator should bring that voltage back down to 12-12.5V. If it's a constant 14.8V it's overcharging. Until that condition is fixed you need to check the battery cells often to make sure they are not low.

 

[pmsmechanic]

Just one quick correction. A 12 volt battery has 2.2 volts/cell = 13.2 volts. The battery won't charge if the voltage is less than 13.2. The charging volts should slowly taper down to 13.8 - 14.2 volts after starting. Can be as high as 15 - 16 volts right after starting. Singe wire alternators need good connections between the battery and the alternator as they sense battery voltage internally instead of by the battery.

 

[tnjind]

Really great info guys, thank you.

Right now I have the wire for the alternator going through the key switch, should it go directly to the battery then?

 

[George2615]

pmsmechanic is correct. I was thinking of battery standing voltage of 12-12.5 and typed that instead of 13.8-14.2 while running.

 

[tnjind]

I have been skidding small logs with it, cutting firewood. When I took it back to the shop I checked voltage with it running at fast idle it was 14.6-14.65 volts it slowly went down to 14.55.

The main alternator wire goes to the stud on the starter that the positive cable is on. There is a smaller that goes from a spade terminal on the alternator to a light bulb then to the on position on the key switch.

My previous post about wire going to key only was wrong.

Would I be better using a normal alternator and external regulator? If so how would I wire it?

Thanks again for all of the help.

Tim.

 

[George2615]

The single wire alt. you have is fine. Just keep a check on the battery acid levels to make sure its not boiling off. Also make sure the ground is nice and clean where it attaches to the frame.

 

[PILOON]

I nave manually controlled glow plugs in the past.
Wire needs to be hefty, like perhaps #10 and the switch a spring loaded momentary type, probably a relay would be best to use as a push switch would probably weld itself. Generally 5 secs would do the trick, (thousand and one etc.)
Actually Mitsu has no fuse in the glow plug circuit but a relay could be fused in the activation circuit. Place the relay as close as possible to the battery to lessen chances of shorting to ground.(hot side of the starter relay would be good location)
I also own a MT180D for last 15 yrs, tough little tractor!

 

[tnjind]

Thanks for the info, I still need to rewire it, I hope to soon.
Now I have another problem, while mowing leaves the front wheel locked up when I tried to back up. I took it into the shop and removed wheel and axle stub. There was hardly any lube at all and it was light brown. I was just thinking while mowing that I needed to change it as I never have yet.
Anyway The top bearing is bad (rust, dry and fell apart locking up wheel) and the outer wheel bearing is bad and the seal.
I can locate the bearings, NTN30304a and NTN6206. However I can not locate the three lipped seal, it is an NOK brand AE2074E.

Does anyone know where I can find the parts?

Thanks

 

[pmsmechanic]

I googled the part number AE2074E and came up with several site that look like they would sell that seal. There were also a few cross references to different seal part numbers. You could also get the seal measured at a store like NAPA and they should be able to figure the size out.

 

[tnjind]

I looked all I could find is importers for quantity.

 

[pmsmechanic]

I looked all I could find is importers for quantity.

So I looked closer and came to the same conclusion you did. Next I googled for cross reference charts which let you look up a seal number and see what the equivalent seal number is from a different manufacturer. NOK/AE2074E crosses over to SKF/13951 which in turn crosses over to Timken/223535. The SKF number will easily get you the right seal just about anywhere. I couldn't find a National number for the NOK/AE2074E.

If the above doesn't give you the right part then take the old seal along with you when you get bearings, The store should be able to measure the inside diameter (id), the outside diameter (od) and the width and come up with a seal that works. If you want to measure for the seal yourself then measure the id of the hole where the seal goes. That is the od of the seal. Measure the shaft where the seal rides (seals) on and that is the id of the seal. If there is room the width of the seal doesn't matter too much as long as it does the job. Store have seal measurement cross reference charts too.

 

[tnjind]

I ordered the bearings and a seal. The seal came in today, it is not the same style but it is the correct size, so far so good, thanks again.

 

[tnjind]

Well,
I got it back together, I didn't have enough gear lube. I will get more tomorrow. I checked the top bearing on the right side. It appears fine.

We will see. I have plenty of leaves to mow with my MMM I turned into a 3 pt mower.

 

[tnjind]

Final drive works great, I do however have a leak. I suspected it would leak lube from around the final drive "pivot". The seal was extremely hard. The shop manual does not provide a part number and the seal is extremely thin. I will destroy it when I remove it and doubt there would be any readable number on it.
My question, does anyone have the seal part number?

This thing is giving me a work out. The steering is back to have a half of turn of play again. I suspect the worm gear is worn enough to allow the balls to fall out.

 

[tnjind]

Over 1,500 views and only three good people responded, which is VERY much appreciated
Either I am not good at this (which is likely), or what I am asking is too specific, or that my stuff is junk and people is hoping I will report back that it blew up and disappeared from the earth and I will soon follow, lol...

I would have at least expected a "you suck" or something.

 

[pmsmechanic]

Well I could tel you that you suck but that wouldn't solve the problem.

Now lets get back to the seal. I looked online for parts diagrams but didn't come up with anything. Is the seal built just like a regular seal? With a metal flange and rubber bonded to it? If it is then you can get it out without damaging it. what you do is drill a small hole into the metal flange and screw in a self tapping screw. You might need to do this in about three equally spaced places around the seal. Screw in the self tapping screw firmly and then gently pry on each one till the seal comes out.

Take the seal and see if you can get one matched up. If you can't match one up all is not lost. If your careful drilling holes and the seal has a garter spring inside that didn't get damaged during the removal process then take the garter spring out and look at it carefully. you will see a place where the end of the spring turns into itself. Unscrew the spring to separate it and shorten it by 3-4 coils of spring on the larger end. To get the spring back together is a bit of a trick. You need to pre-uncoil the spring several turns between your fingers before you touch the two ends together and let them screw back into each other. Reinstall the shortened garter spring into the seal and install the seal. Close up the holes you drilled with some oil resistant silicone and with a bit of luck you should be back in business. If the garter spring gets damaged just buy another seal close to the same size and use the garter spring out of it.

Once you get the seal out you may just find the number on it. I've found numbers inside the steel flange at times. I'm pretty sure that the place where you ordered the previous seal should be able to match one up.

As far as he steering goes maybe someone else can reply as I have no experience with Mitsubishi's.

 

[pmsmechanic]

Just had another idea in the shower!! Take the part where the seal rides on to the store where you got your other seal. They should be able to fit you up with a ready-sleeve or equivalent. This fits over the shaft where the seal rides on and makes it a bit larger. that will probably be enough to stop the leaking.

 

[oliver28472]

I bought new seals and bushings for my 470 Buck many years back. I had a machine shop press them in. My parts book calls for 2 seal per side. The part number in the book is 1007 0641 000.

 

[tnjind]

Thanks for all of the help and ideas.
The seal is really thin, not like a normal seal. I at first didn't realize there was a seal. I looked at the manual some good guy posted, It talked about the steel on the seal being so thin that it easily distorts.
I was hoping I could get one before I tore this one out. My luck would that it is no longer available. It is not leaking too bad yet, but will only get worse.

As far as the steering box, if I can not correctly repair this one I might try to adapt on from an Economy tractor. looks like it might work.