17.5" Wheels

[3Ts]

I have a new dump trailer that I had 17.5" wheels put on. The dealer took off the 16" and put on the 17's meaning a different hub, rim, and tires. My understanding is that the 17's come in both hub centric and lug centric versions. The saleslady said these are lug centric, but they don't look like it to me because the holes for the wheel studs are not tapered. I also asked about the 1st, 2nd, & final lug nut torque specs and she said they were for the first 10miles, then 25 miles, and 50 miles. But, the 1st torque setting was just 25 ft lbs. :shocked: That can't be - can it? especially when the final torque is around 140 ft lbs. I think the 1st, 2nd, 3rd means you go around tightening all the nuts to the 1st number, then do it again to the 2nd number, and the 3rd time to the 140 ft lbs.

So, I'm not convinced the saleslady knows whether they're lug or hub centric. So how do I tell, because if they're hub centric, I think I've got the wrong lugnuts on there. Hub centric should have a flat washer style instead of the cone nuts.

Here's a picture of the wheel mounted on the axle, and a picture of the spare showing that there is no cone in the wheel stud holes. and a third picture of another wheel off a different trailer showing the cone.

 

[4570Man]

It looks like a hub centric wheel and hub but is it the matched pair and fit tight?

 

[nisaacs]

I have a new dump trailer that I had 17.5" wheels put on. The dealer took off the 16" and put on the 17's meaning a different hub, rim, and tires. My understanding is that the 17's come in both hub centric and lug centric versions. The saleslady said these are lug centric, but they don't look like it to me because the holes for the wheel studs are not tapered. I also asked about the 1st, 2nd, & final lug nut torque specs and she said they were for the first 10miles, then 25 miles, and 50 miles. But, the 1st torque setting was just 25 ft lbs. :shocked: That can't be - can it? especially when the final torque is around 140 ft lbs. I think the 1st, 2nd, 3rd means you go around tightening all the nuts to the 1st number, then do it again to the 2nd number, and the 3rd time to the 140 ft lbs.

So, I'm not convinced the saleslady knows whether they're lug or hub centric. So how do I tell, because if they're hub centric, I think I've got the wrong lugnuts on there. Hub centric should have a flat washer style instead of the cone nuts.

Here's a picture of the wheel mounted on the axle, and a picture of the spare showing that there is no cone in the wheel stud holes. and a third picture of another wheel off a different trailer showing the cone.

Yes, you are correct, they installed the wrong nuts. You can use a clamp ring and your cone nuts or get flange nuts. Some have the solid flange or a swivel flange. Your studs might be too short for a clamp ring. I assume they are 9/16's? Some clamp rings will work on 9/16's or 5/8's studs, some are 5/8's only. Yes, you are also correct on nut torque and sequence.

Flange nuts are probably the cheapest solution. Here is a picture of the clamp ring and some nuts.

 

[3Ts]

Here's an update. I called the dealer today and talked to their service department. They acknowledged the situation and said they've been doing it that way for many years and haven't had a problem. They said they use cone nuts on 9/16" studs and flange nuts for 5/8" studs all with the same wheel rims. (It looks like they took them off another trailer that had them mounted with flange nuts) At the end of the call they said that it is what it is, implying that they really don't care whether it's right or wrong. So, that now brings up 2 more questions 1) If I change to the flange nuts, will I have a problem with the wheel rotating on the hub since the holes are big enough for a 5/8" stud? 2) Do I have the right rim to use with cone nuts or do I need a different rim? or #3) does it really matter? I really don't want to be on the side of the road with a broken rim and 5 ton load.

 

[nisaacs]

I would not use them as they are. If you call Dexter about it I am sure they would be appalled. I don't think the wheel hole size would hurt anything with 9/16's studs and the right lug nut, or use a clamp ring. They do make 17.5 stud centric wheels for 9/16's studs but that is expensive if on your dime. Can you sell yours?

Here is a link that has both type wheels. The fine print is pretty specific about what wheel to use with what stud and lug nut.

Rickson Wheel Manufacturing

 

[3Ts]

This is going to be interesting, but probably combative after the service guy's statement. The saleslady is on vacation this week so I'll talk to her and see what she says. I've started a log of calls and contact information.

I found the wheel rim manufacturer's specs and it says the flange nuts are required for this wheel. I'll probably have to pull a wheel to get the number off the hub but it's probably a cone style, so they've mixed the two styles. So, the trailer is just siting in my yard and it won't be going anywhere until this is resolved.

I am expecting the dealer to make this right since they made the modification and I bought it from them one week ago.

 

[nisaacs]

Have you registered your trailer with the factory yet? If not, I would asap. If you don't get satisfaction from the dealer that would be my next call. The factory upgrade to 17.5 tires and wheels for 7k axles is option #Y2BS. The factory warranty department will know exactly what parts are used/needed for that upgrade, even if the dealer don't.

The way I understand the upgrade, hubs with at least 9/16's" studs are required, that the 1/2" studs will not work. My guess is you have the right hub. By looking at your picture, it appears that your cone nuts are 60 degrees, so they wont even work with the clamp ring.

You are on the right track, by parking the trailer and getting some answers.

Some items I looked up on PJ's parts selection that might be a part of the Y2BS upgrade, might include these items, depending on the route they use.

Tension Ring for 5/8" Cone Nuts

Lug Nut, 9/16"-18 x 9deg Cone

Lug Nut, 9/16" Swivel Flanged Flat Wheel

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

I would just return the trailer and get a refund on your money.

I'll never understand why some folks will put up with this garbage from a (any) dealer.

Especially on a new (not used) piece of equipment.

Take it back. Get a refund. Go somewhere else that won't jerk you around.

 

[Hay Dude]

Sounds like a somewhat hot mess. Thing you have to remember is your safety and the safety of others. IMHO, the dealer took matters into their own hands altering a safety system. The statement that theyve been doing it that way for years is kind of frightening.
If you dont get anywhere with them, I would do a work around with another reputable dealer.

 

[crazyal]

Another way around this would be to have a lawyer draft up a letter stating that the dealer certifies that the parts they used are correct and they take full liability for any failure. Then ask for the owner to sign it. A friend had an issue with a new 2003 GMC 3500 and a trailer. I don't remember the full details but the trailer dealership had to cut into one of the hydraulic brake lines and install a pressure sensor. Everything was done as they always had done it. However for some reason the antilock brakes failed to work correctly. If the antilocks kicked on the brake pedal would immediately go to the floor. One of his employees found out the hard way. After a rain storm washed some gravel onto the road the antilock brakes kicked on. He hit another car and pushed it into the ditch. He finally stopped about 1/4 mile down the road. GMC said "not our fault, we didn't install that sensor". The trailer dealership said "it's an anti-lock brake problem, not us".

If you have a problem then Dextor (if they make the axle) will say that you have the wrong wheels. The trailer dealership will try to find an excuse why it's not their fault leaving you with a years long fight. In a year or two the trailer dealership will say it's your fault. It's new, make sure you have the correct wheels.