120v MIG weld on a 3/8" thick (bevel 60deg)

[Sodo]

I just returned to doing my own welding after many years absence. Hopefully I can apply common sense and prudence in recognizing good advice. There's times good enough to get by isn't good enough. sq1

Good to hear, you and I look at it about the same. New Rule#1: steps taken that nobody is maimed by poorly welded test-plates!

Can't be me doing all the work and posting all the pics. Shield's out, now Dangit looks like Mark's out too. Need someone with formal training to jump in.

What about Fifelaker? You have a little MIG, can you ask your instructor what to do,,, if you had to weld 3/8" thick steel from one side without preheating? And then SHOW IT on TBN?

 

[muddstopper]

Look - I am glad this thread is started. I have a hobart 125ez and I am NOT a welder. I have NO ONE willing to teach me locally other then going to a welding class.

So I just use my machine to weld up stuff to fix. I hate throwing anything away, and I really hate going into local shops for help. I get scoffed at or get a sorry -too small of a job or charge exhoribant prices. So I repair my own stuff and make my own stuff. Granted I do see the limitation of the 120v machine. I had one part I had to reweld in middle of plowing job in middle of snowstorm at 0 degrees and snow falling in on my welding making it popping while welding. . I worry about the part popping off since its half inch thick metal and the bead is cold and all its doing is acting like its glue at the moment.

So All I hear in these threads from career welders say 120v machine cant do crap instead of showing what is the "right" place or situtations or preferred time to use 120v machines. These manufacturers would not make them if there wasn't a need for 120v welders.

I started welding with a stick machine. I got to where I could weld sheet metal with it as long as i could find the 1/16 rods. It was a real pain and I often ended up welding up holes I had made while trying to weld the sheet metal together. I bought a 125hobart gas mig. Now I had the ticket for welding sheet metal. took a little practice, but I finally figured it out. I tried the little mig on angle and barstock, no matter how hard I treid, I just couldnt get decent penetration on anything over about 1/8 in. 3/16 was very iffy, and 1/4in guaranteed to break. I started borrowing my brothers 135 lincoln, few more amps, but not what I was looking for either. I finally made the move up to a 220v machine, a 170amp miller. I have no problems with 1/4in and occassionaly will do 1/2in using a grinder for a Vee and multiple passes. I wish I had went ahead and bought a 250amp machine, but i dont weld enough thick stuff to justify it, and when I do, I have a 250amp ac/dc machine to stick weld it.

I am by far not a Pro when it comes to welding. I do weld and build a lot of my own projects. I no longer even own a 110v machine, no need, I can turn the 220v machine down low enough to do thin stuff and have the capacity to do what i do the most of, usually 1/4" and less.

I can only offer up my opinions on using the 110v mig machines. Keep the machine within its limitation. If you must weld something thicker than the machine is designed to do, consider it a temporary fix. Even for a temporary fix, take the time to properly prep the area to be welded. If its something that is broke and needs to be stuck back together, grind out the old weld to get rid of any protrutions that would prevent good contact and penetration. If its a new break, Vee it out first. Make mulitple passes. A small root pass in the middle of the Vee and a hot pass to tie the root pass to the side and then a pass going from the edge of the metal to the center of the previous weld and then again on the opposite side. Then come back and cap those last welds to tie them together. Running a pass down the root and then trying to fill the gap with one pass ( what Sodo likes to do and call strong) will insure a cold lapped weld with poor holding capacity.

 

[FTG-05]

I've watched the various threads on this subject from a distance. I have to say: is tantamount to saying it's known to be wrong, but I am / we are going to do this anyway.

I fear the rush to fill the "expert" role on the forum (sadly) vacated by SA is lessening the value of information being presented. I just returned to doing my own welding after many years absence. Hopefully I can apply common sense and prudence in recognizing good advice. There's times good enough to get by isn't good enough.
sq1

What happened to SA? Did I miss something?

Back to the 120 vac welder: as someone mentioned above, there's a ton of these welders sold every day. Some one is using them and yes, those someone's are putting their 120 vac welded stuff on the road.

So instead of harping on how "it's can't be done", how about some ideas on how to mitigate the known 120 vac weaknesses and risks with actual pics, examples etc. I don't have a 120 vac welder (Lincoln SP-175Plus) so I have no dog in the fight. But I figure I can learn how to mitigate my own welding risks (i.e. lack of experience and teaching from other welders).

Thanks,

 

[square1]

How funny.

I meant that as a compliment. If anyone can melt metal to metal with the machine being discussed, it is you.
I'm just leery of methods being proposed that the MFGs won't claim in their machine specs and certified instructors won't teach.

 

[muddstopper]

I'm just leery of methods being proposed that the MFGs won't claim in their machine specs and certified instructors won't teach.

Bingo, we have a winner. Now if a certain person would take notice of what was just said/written, then he might understand that just because he has a 110v machine, and he wants to weld thick metal with it, it doesnt mean he can or should. MFG's wont recommend such practices because of liability, certified instructors wont teach it because the welds produced with such machines,, with material thicker than reccomended, wont pass inspections. Why is this so hard to understand. Low voltage, low amp machines are not designed to build battle ships, if they where, there would be no need for high voltage, high amp machines. Really, his crappy welds even fail his own crude testing methods, yet he still screams his welds are strong and advocates everyone follow his methods of welding.

 

[paulharvey]

How about we all withdraw to neutral ground. People can post pictures of theyre welding projects with getting insulted/assaulted; and we can stop trying to prove points about limitations/lack there of. Now; if someone posts their welds for critique, go after it. But if they are not asking for comment about quality about weld, no need to attack them.

 

[Furu]

So instead of harping on how "it's can't be done", how about some ideas on how to mitigate the known 120 vac weaknesses and risks with actual pics, examples etc. I don't have a 120 vac welder (Lincoln SP-175Plus) so I have no dog in the fight. But I figure I can learn how to mitigate my own welding risks (i.e. lack of experience and teaching from other welders).

Thanks,

Not throwing a stone at you FTG-05 so please do not misunderstand

You can't mitigate what can't be done.
Up to a point you can mitigate; but some have this idea that you can do something that can't be done. They feel that if you want to and work hard enough at it you can do it. True in some things but not all things. I can flap my arms and hands all day long but I can not fly without the help of more advanced devices no matter how I mitigate and how hard I want to do it.
Welding with an underpowered machine is that way. It is a great thing for light material, sheet metal and the like. SA was starting to try to work with the 120v unit but the attacks and the threats and the PM's from certain individuals made it not fun to continue to help.

Mark from Everlast made some great points in the above posts.

Re read #15 and #16 a couple of times.

Shield Arc set an abusive tone in the forum, attacked members, fully expecting them to back down.
It's too bad he couldn't just lighten up. If other members valued his knowledge, they could have asked him to tone it down, be civil, but didn't.

Talk about an abusive tone Sodo. You have been abusive form the start of this. If anyone tells you that you do not know that what you are preaching is not necessarily the holy grail you go off on them. YOU CAN TAKE NO CRITICISM. You need to learn. You say you are going to tone it back and then in the next paragraph you are back at it again.

The follow post from Professor Marvel says it very well.

Sodo
As far as I am concerned you stand on pretty shaky ground condemning anyone else for bullying on the internet.
I bought a 120v machine and before I used it I asked you for advice because I thought you did some pretty good work with a 120v machine. I admitted I had no welding experience. You yourself told me that what I wanted to do was at the limit of the machine so I took it back and got a 120/220v machine -- primarily on your advice (if the 120v welder says it is at the limit it must be so). Next thing I know you jumping up and down (metaphorically) and very sarcastically calling me a !!!! liar. Made me just step out of the conversation.
Seems pretty hypocritical faulting somebody else's internet etiquette.

 

[Fifelaker]

I think I have some 3/8" test plates beveled in the shop. I will put them on a 1/4" backer, preheat and use .030" flux core to weld stringers, as I know for a fact it will not be hot enough for a weave. If they pass the visual. I will cut, grind and sand to specs and then take them to school and bend them. I will also etch them to see what can be seen. If I do not have the beveled plates I will cut some more at school Mon. If I can get some time I will scan the sheets for proper bend procedures for the D1.1 bend test. By the way I do not need to "Ask my instructor what I need to do to make this work. I am qualified in this procedure by the AWS and also hold a cert.
Now the big question do I fudge this and weld it in 3g (vertical up) or run it in the 1g(flat) I know 3g will have a better chance of working, but I don't know how many will weld in that position.

 

[Reverser]

Well anyway I wonder if this thread can steer back to welding 3/8" with 120v.

Thanks for showing us your test results.

If I remember correctly, Mark said one time that their new 120v. machine will do 3/8".
So maybe he can show us his test results using 3/8", one of these days.

 

[Reverser]

I think I have some 3/8" test plates beveled in the shop. I will put them on a 1/4" backer, preheat and use .030" flux core to weld stringers, as I know for a fact it will not be hot enough for a weave. If they pass the visual. I will cut, grind and sand to specs and then take them to school and bend them. I will also etch them to see what can be seen. If I do not have the beveled plates I will cut some more at school Mon. If I can get some time I will scan the sheets for proper bend procedures for the D1.1 bend test. By the way I do not need to "Ask my instructor what I need to do to make this work. I am qualified in this procedure by the AWS and also hold a cert.
Now the big question do I fudge this and weld it in 3g (vertical up) or run it in the 1g(flat) I know 3g will have a better chance of working, but I don't know how many will weld in that position.

Sounds great. We will look forward to seeing them.