Backhoe 110 tlb 7th function hydraulic flow rate?

mechatgsk · Jan 3, 2012

Hi, I was wanting to know if anyone knows the flow rate for the 7th function valve on the 110 tlb? The reason I'm asking is I am looking at buying a backhoe mounted flail mower/shredder. I was also wanting to know how the 7th valve is used for this type of equipment? Does it have to be constant flow or just how does it work? Any help is always appreciated!

Regards,
mechatgsk

AKfish · Jan 4, 2012

The front and rear 3rd SCV are available at full system pressure (3000psi) and 11gpm to operate hydraulic motors.

The 7th hydraulic function available on the backhoe is operated via the pedal on the footrest platform of the backhoe and operates at 2400psi. I believe it also has a rated flow of 11gpm.

I considered a loader mounted rotary cutter (Bobcat) for my 110 but discovered the minimum flow rate required was 15gpm. Same for the hydraulic (post hole) auger.

AKfish

mechatgsk · Jan 4, 2012

Hey AKfish,
Thank you for the information. Here are the links to some mowers I am concidering. US Mower -EX30 Samurai Flail Mowr - Direct Drive and 30EX Flail Brush Mower - Excavator Style Mount by RockHound. Both require a minimum of 8 GPM oil flow.

Regards,
mechatgsk

jenkinsph · Jan 4, 2012

I beg to differ on the hydraulic flow rates. The front auxillary flowrate is 12gpm and the 7th function on the backhoe is 16gpm. That is why the backhoe is rated to operate the PA30 hydraulic auger and the ssqa is not rated for this. I checked on all of this prior to buying the PA30 early last year.

AKfish · Jan 5, 2012

It's certainly OK to have a difference of opinion.. however, if you'll review page 515 in the Technical manual for the 110 you'll note that the combined flow of the main and auxiliary hydraulic pumps is 14.86gpm (new) and the minimum combined flow is 11.89gpm.

So, the best you could hope to get at the backhoe would be when the tractor is right off the lot - 14.86gpm - not 16gpm.

Also please note on page 483 that the total flow available to the loader is 10.5gpm - not 12gpm.

However, it does not state in the Technical manual what the combined flow rate is for the 7th function on the hoe - just that the pressure relief circuit is set at 2400psi. So, Steve could well be correct that the flow rate is higher than my "estimated" 11gpm.

AKfish

jenkinsph · Jan 5, 2012

All good points AK, when I was looking for the PA set up I tried out a front mount unit and it turned so slow I couldn't sling the dirt off the auger bit. The rear mounted unit is faster but no speed demon. I just started a fence project at home Monday, great improvement over my older 3ph model.

My flow rates of 12 and 16 gpm is what the dealer told me

AKfish · Jan 5, 2012

jenkinsph said:
All good points AK, when I was looking for the PA set up I tried out a front mount unit and it turned so slow I couldn't sling the dirt off the auger bit. The rear mounted unit is faster but no speed demon. I just started a fence project at home Monday, great improvement over my older 3ph model.

My flow rates of 12 and 16 gpm is what the dealer told me

My last pole-barn project - wanted to use a 30" hydraulic auger for the holes. Rented the SSQA auger from the local Deere folk's (they thought it "might" work) to use on the 110.

Same results that you experienced - turned so slow that it wouldn't clean off the bit. Luckily, my buddy has a 753 Bobcat and that did the trick! The difference between the 110 performance and the 753 wasn't "night and day" but just another couple of RPM's.

If you read the sales brochures, etc. there's alot of confusion regarding the capacities! And the Owner's Manual states the hydraulic rates as "Theoretical*... Of course, the flow to the loader is rated at 12.2gpm and the backhoe is rated at 16.3gpm.

Then, you go to the Technical Repair manual and the rating's are more "real world" 'cause that's what the mechanics have to work with when measuring and metering to determine if something is or is not functioning correctly.

The lower capacities are what's listed in the Technical manual...

Whenever you talk to a salesman - always verify - with the manual's that line the wall in the shop foreman's office!! :thumbsup:

AKfish

jenkinsph · Jan 5, 2012

Having to install the gates I build the hoe mounted PA30 has really helped. Some of the places I needed to drill were hard to get to with the ssqa models. I need to get an 18 to 24" bit but thats more money. In a nutshell the PA 30 has saved alot of time and labor in the past year so I am satisfied with it.

AKfish · Jan 5, 2012

jenkinsph said:
Having to install the gates I build the hoe mounted PA30 has really helped. Some of the places I needed to drill were hard to get to with the ssqa models. I need to get an 18 to 24" bit but thats more money. In a nutshell the PA 30 has saved alot of time and labor in the past year so I am satisfied with it.

The backhoe mounted auger certainly adds a whole dimension to the capability of the 110! If I were landscaping more (tree planting, etc.) or erecting fences and building more pole-barns... :laughing: the PA30 would be a "must have"!

One of the bigger PITA's with the pole barn work was being able to maneuver the tractor in amongst the rows of holes! Having a 13ft reach off the end of the dipperstick would be a definite plus.

AKfish

dsh82 · Jan 7, 2012

Ak,

I also have a 110 and noted you were talking about the tech manual. I was going to order the manual from deere (tm1987 correct?). Its a little on the expensive side (145 bucks for pdf). How concise is the manual and how much detail does it go into? Ive read other deere publication and always found them to be very well written. Just want to make sure this manual is worth it.

Thanks,

Dan

AKfish · Jan 8, 2012

dsh82 said:
Ak,

I also have a 110 and noted you were talking about the tech manual. I was going to order the manual from deere (tm1987 correct?). Its a little on the expensive side (145 bucks for pdf). How concise is the manual and how much detail does it go into? Ive read other deere publication and always found them to be very well written. Just want to make sure this manual is worth it.

Thanks,

Dan

Yep.... TM1987. I paid $150! I've got a 19-yr old in college... you really wanna talk about EXPENSIVE books?!?

Very well written. It goes into detail - but, is really written for professionally trained Deere mechanics. There are gaps in the explaination's (which is really necessary; or the book would be 1,200 pages) and the assumption is that the reader is knowledgable and/or experienced with mechanical repair work.

If nothing else - the manual will aid you to better understand what/how extensive any repairs might be and you'll be that further ahead when working with your local dealer should the time come that your 110 might need repairs you don't have the tools or the experience to tackle.

AKfish

dsh82 · Jan 8, 2012

Thanks ak. The reason i asked is because most deere equipment has a repair manual and a test manual. The 110 does not. Since the 110 has been treated like the step child of the construction division, i wasnt sure if it was written like a real manual or like a riding lawnmower manual. i didn't feel like shelling out 150 bucks for it to show me where the starter is located. Ive dealt with enough tech manuals and machinery to handle most of the repairs ill need to do so i can skip the dealer, although im located not far from the biggest seller of 110s in the country. Thanks for your help, ill be buying the manual shortly.

Dan

Russell Burnett · Feb 19, 2016

$150 bucks!!!.....thats crazy money - John Deere TM1987 Technical Manual - 110 Tractor Loader Backhoe

DocDryden · May 9, 2016

I was wondering if anybody tried a loader mounted bush cutter on a JD 110 TLB that needs a flo of 11-20 gpm. After watching some videos on youtube, J.R. Meredith runs a bush cutters that requires 7-15 gpm and is 48'' wide on his 110. I know that a flow of 7-15 gpm is well within the range of the 110. The bush cutter that I have been thinking about buying requires a flo rate of 11-20 gpm and is 72'' wide. Has anyone tried a bush cutter that requires a 11-20 gpm flo on a lo-flo tractor similar to the JD 110TLB ?
Before I spend the $4000. I would like some opinions.

GreatWhitehunter · May 9, 2016

Doc, I've watched all of JR's vidoes and the performance of the loader mounted brush hog certainly seems subpar to me.
He also running duals on the 110 which is very interesting. It seems the cutter recovery rate is pretty weak by the video's I've seen and it appears to lose some flow just reversing the 110 by the sound of the rotor..
It seems to me that a 3 pt mounted cutter would be better(other than the loss of high reach) and cost a lot less to.
If you're **** bent on a loader mounted unit I'd spend the money on a pto hydro pack and heavier duty mower like the bradco landshark.

Matt

DocDryden · May 10, 2016

GreatWhitehunter said:
Doc, I've watched all of JR's vidoes and the performance of the loader mounted brush hog certainly seems subpar to me.
It seems the cutter recovery rate is pretty weak by the video's I've seen and it appears to lose some flow just reversing the 110 by the sound of the rotor..
Matt

I agree, after watching JR's videos again I can see that his bush cutter appears to lose power under load / as he cuts with the blade.
Thanks for bring it to my attention.

jenkinsph · May 10, 2016

A 110 does not have enough hydraulic power to do a good job with a mower. You need about twice as much to get much done.

GreatWhitehunter · May 11, 2016

Add one of these to the mix and you'd be able to effectively run a loader mounted cutter IMO.
Loftness | Power Pak Literature/Manuals

Matt

DocDryden · May 11, 2016

GreatWhitehunter said:
Add one of these to the mix and you'd be able to effectively run a loader mounted cutter IMO.
Loftness | Power Pak Literature/Manuals

Matt

Now you're talkin my language.
Put the pedal to the metal.
33 GPM !!!!!!!!

jenkinsph · May 12, 2016

Running power pack can work but recognize that the 110 pto would run the 33 gpm at a maximum pressure of just over 1600 psi. With the 25 gpm model you could run a maximum pressure of just over 2100 psi. This is for continuous use, I would expect you could exceed these pressures for short terms spikes (a few seconds). Much more than that and you would stall the engine. FWIW, 33 gpm at 3000 psi would require 58 horsepower.

The front aux couplers are good for almost 12 gpm at 3000 psi which equates to using 21 horsepower. That is about half the gross power of 43 hp. and you still need to operate the tractors other functions. Remember the pto ratings of tractors are given with the machines parked. So if you are driving up a hill you will not be able to obtain the full pto hp rating.

The 7th function on the hoe is supposed to have a flow rate of about 16 gpm at 3000 psi. Which would require 28 hp to run, I don't think I would exceed those numbers.

With all of the above said you will find that once up to speed the mower would spin at a lower pressure below 1000 psi and would increase as the load on the mower increased. I don't think you would gain much with a power pack unit because it is very close to the built in hydraulics capabilities.

The width of the hydraulic motor's gears would need to be matched to the hydraulic system design parameters.