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Working from dark to dark thirty. Up with the chickens. Stubborn as a mule. Flying off the handle. Make hay while the sun shines. Like closing the barn door after the horse got out. Too wet to ploy. Walked to school uphill both ways with a potato in my pocket. Like finding a birds nest on the...

It will be almost impossible to prime without a working foot/check valve. A small leak in the suction line can also cause a lose of prime. Make sure the suction line and pump case are full, the blue valve is open, and water can easily go somewhere before starting the pump.

Unfortunately, finding a good pump man has become difficult if not impossible in many places. The DIY market for pumps has become enormous because people cannot count on anyone local knowing what they are doing. A good pump man is worth his weight in gold. But most these days have no idea how...

Sorry for your problem and glad you got it fixed. But even knowing who and where a good pump service company is doesn't guarantee the goats get water. You should always find out what the problem was and how it was resolved. Learning how to replace a simple start capacitor or pressure switch...

Yeah, you don't get much amp drop from most 5-7 GPM pumps. But it also depends on the brand of pump. This one drops from 1.9HP to 1HP at 1 GPM flow. Even with a 7 GPM pump the amps will drop nearly 50%. Shut off head on this pump is about 720' or 311 PSI. Deduct the 50' or 22 PSI for the...

Well it is very common to hear. I am always being told the pump supplier said the "back pressure will burn up the pump", "the pump manufacturer won't honor their warranty if you use a Cycle Stop Valve", or "CSV waste energy". It has been a constant propaganda battle for 30 years, dissing the...

I can help you figure out what size pump you have and how much back pressure it can build. Most pumps only build about 100 PSI back pressure. Again, the back pressure is probably less stress on your pipe than when that pump is cycling on and off.

The back pressure from a CSV is completely dependent on how much pressure the pump can build, less the depth to the static water level. Many years ago I would occasionally see 100# poly pipe in the trench line. Some really old houses may still have that. But 160# or higher is the pressure...

The CSV's that fit inside the well casing are not adjustable. They come in 40, 50, or 60 PSI. As I explained to Woodchuckdad, the adjustment is all in the pressure switch. If you want a longer run time to fill the tank, turn the pressure switch up. If you want higher pressure when using...

When you have the PK1A kit with the pressure switch attached close to the 4.5 gallon pressure tank, another pressure tank can simply be teed into the water line anywhere after the CSV kit. The extra tank can be a foot after the PK1A kit or all the way on the other side of the house. When using...

If everyone understood this natural characteristic of a centrifugal pump, my job would be so much easier. But I would also have a bazillion competitors, because everyone would understand the CSV is better than a VFD. It is a double edged sword for me. In one way it makes CSV's hard to sell...

I agree with Steve that water flow has never worn out poly pipe. And also agree rocks are not your friend. Most pipe problems I see are caused by water hammer from the pump starting and stopping. Using a Cycle Stop Valve will greatly limit the pump cycling and also give a mechanical soft...

But then you did get into it here. Ditching the Cycle Stop Valve would be removing the most important part of the pump system. ANYWHERE the CSV has been "thrashed extensively" they fail to give any empirical evidence of the problem. They say back pressure is bad for a pump, but they never...

Sorry you are having problems. If the CSV is not keeping the pump from cycling when using less than 2 GPM, we will gladly replace it. But if you have a lot of usages of less than 2 GPM, a 20 gallon size tank that holds 5 gallons of water will help. Water Worker is an Amtrol tank. Flexcon is...

If the tank is upside down, water will come out of the Schrader as soon as the diaphragm goes bad. But if the Schrader is on top of the tank you won't see water come out until the tank is completely waterlogged. As was said, when the tank is right side up, the pump will have been rapid cycling...

Sand will certainly shorten the life of any pump. But without pumping sand, it is the motor that determines the life. While running against a partially closed valve is wasted energy, it is no more wasted energy than slowing the pump down with a VFD. And while there is not enough cooling at...

A 20 gallon pressure tank should hold 5 gallons of water. When you checked and the air charge pressure was high, that is because the diaphragm is broken and there is water on the air side. Replacing that tank will only get you back to a 15-30 second run time, which isn't long enough. Your...

That 1/4 or 1/2 fps (depending on motor size) is to keep motors loaded up to maximum service factor horse power cool. That doesn't change when using a VFD as it creates a smaller motor from a large one. But the motor still needs cooling flow the same as the smaller motor running at full...

I googled "how to maximize lifetime of a well pump". I think that is what they call falling down a rabbit hole. Lol! Never knew there was so much fake news about how to make pumps last longer. But here is a quote from a pump manufacture. "What Determines a Well Pumps Life Expectancy" "The...

A 20 gallon pressure tank only holds 5 gallons of water. Sounds like your pump is short cycling and running dry occasionally. Don't know why some pumps can survive when others wouldn't last a week like that. For the "good water" it is worth staying with the shallow well. But it sounds like...

The light is a good idea. But the pump running for only 15 seconds is not a good thing. Pumps are made to run continuously 24/7/365. Short runs and multiple cycles on/off will greatly shorten pump life. Minimum run time should be 60 seconds, 120 seconds is better, and running continuously...

I don't think so. I believe you were talking about this quote instead. Adjusting the pressure relief valve higher as needed is normal operation. With a 55/75 pressure switch setting I would adjust the prv up to 90 PSI. But it is important to not adjust the prv to a higher pressure than the...

18 years is a good run for a VFD. I have seen some last 30 years. The ones that last that long help extend the average life to like 3-5 years, taking into account all the VFD's that didn't last a year or even a month. To get a VFD pump system to last a while the controller needs to be in a...

Take the cap off the pressure relief valve and you can tighten the adjustment screw to make it work at higher pressure.

Yeah upping the 240V to 370V on the run leg is just what a run capacitor is supposed to do. VFD's are a different story. You would need an RMS meter to read the voltage. But a 240V pump running on a VFD see's about 1000V spikes. It is a pulsing DC voltage trying to simulate an AC sign wave...

Made my day! :ROFLMAO: I'm adding a 1/4X3 brass nipple to my spare parts. Lol!

A start cap, relay, and a pressure switch for the well pump and the HVAC unit are a good thing to have on the shelf during a Christmas holiday. :)

Lightning can do crazy things. I have seen it hit the ground a half mile from a well that didn't even have electric service yet and it took out the motor. But I still think lightning taking out a start cap is a coincidence. The cap was probably already weak from cycling and the lighting...

The 60 PSI Cycle Stop Valve will regulate on the high side of about 64 PSI. If the kitchen sink keeps the pump running continuously at 69 PSI, the pressure gauge could just be off by 5 PSI. I would just tighten the large screw in the pressure switch so the pump shuts off higher than 75 PSI...

370V is normal on the run cap leg. You should not have needed a new start cap if the CSV and check valve are working properly. You say it repeats from 50 to 70, but is that with a tap open or closed? The CSV should keep the pump running continuously with two, or even just one faucet running...

The lightning was just a coincidence. The pump tripped the overload because the start cap was bad. The start cap and relay are not even in the circuit after the pump is started or when the pump is off. So, lightning does not take out start caps and relay. Lightning will blow a hole in the...

I don't recommend it either, but if drinking pool water would kill you, we would have all been dead by the age of twelve. Just saying. :ROFLMAO:

I'm in Lubbock. Hate the city water, but love the well water and it has tested better than city stuff that comes from a lake. But a lot of wells have contaminates also. Doesn't matter if it is lake water where fish pee and poop in it, pool water, or well water, it needs to be tested and...

Very interesting idea, and it will work. The reason the pool water is better is because it has time to off-gas as you say, and lets the sediment settle to the bottom. You could do the same thing with say a 1000 gallon cistern, and then the water wouldn't get peed in. Check the acidity of the...

In many areas, and GA is one of them, there is sulfur or iron in the water. The air over water or "hydro" tank system aerates the water and dissipates or precipitates the sulfur and/or iron. Many people switch from a hydro tank to a bladder/diaphragm tank and then start smelling rotten eggs...

Like was said, hydro tanks are "old school" these days. But there are places that have Iron or Sulfur and the old hydro tanks are still the norm in those areas.

No matter how the air or gas gets into a regular hydro type tank, a good AVC will let out the excess.

Good video. I agree piston, diaphragm, and ball type pumps wear quickly and need replacing often. As the video states centrifugal impeller pumps are best for many reasons. But with solar they can't build much head because they need close to max speed to do so. Solar only runs as fast as the...

Most solar powered pumps are positive displacement using balls or pistons. These will work at low RPM, which is conducive to solar, but they usually don't last very long. Still rather pull and replace one of those every year or three than keep up with the maintenance on a windmill. I would...

Years ago I would see expansion tanks with a 3/4 outlet and a tiny hole inside for the water path. Any expansion tanks I have seen lately have a 3/4 outlet and a normal size opening for the water flow into the tank. If there is no tiny hole for the water flow, there is no difference between an...

Yes, and if the pump was made for 700' it needs to see that 300 PSI on start up. Just need a single check valve on the pump that is rated for 300+ PSI.

Yes, and 946 PSI is nothing for an oil field type check valve made for 3K PSI or so. Also, a pump set at 2200' needs to see 946 PSI on start up. Any extra check valves up the line would defeat the back pressure needed to keep the pump from upthrusting on start up. You are correct a VFD check...

In our area the quail population declined rapidly after the pigs and fire ants moved in.

I have learned in my many years of working with pumps, that recommendations made by the pump companies are for the benefit of the pump manufacture, which comes at the expense of the homeowner. What you can see on the pump curve is really the only facts you will get from the pump manufacturers...

I know right? And thanks! The CSV was invented to replace VFD's and big pressure tanks in 1993. We were using CSV's to solve the problems of VFD's back then, and CSV's are still solving the problems with VFD's today. The big pump manufacturers labeled the CSV a "disruptive" product in 1994...

Looks like a double cap on the Schrader valve. That other part should unscrew the same as a cap on the stem of a car tire. As was said, with most VFD constant pressure systems you want the air charge 30% less than the water pressure set point. It doesn't really matter how large the tank is...

This is why it is important to have a 75 PSI pressure relief valve on the system. If the pressure switch fails to turn the pump off for any reason the relief valve will dump enough water to keep the pump from melting down.

The nipple to the pressure switch should be brass or SS. Galvanized nipple will clog easily and not let the pump start or stop as needed. Having to tap on the switch is not good. Can also still have too much air in the tank, which will cause the low pressure switch to shut the pump down...

Does sound like a bad check valve or leak down hole. Adding another check valve at the pitless or tank will solve the bleed down problem, but will cause a water hammer on pump start. If the leak is down hole it will need to be fixed. A check valve up top will work temporarily, but the water...

On my 4th-5th day just riding it out. Must be KP3 cause you guys describe the systems exactly. Lol! Feeling better but haven't been this sick since November 2019, which was a few months before Covid existed. I think maybe they are just able to test for more stuff than before, so what we were...

I have a Wifi switch (breaker) that turns my pump on and off from my phone and moisture sensors strategically placed throughout the house that connect to the Wifi switch that can also shut the pump off. But a small leak anywhere else in the system is hard to detect. With a small leak the...

Sorry I missed this. Nearly every problem with a well or booster pump is caused by the pump cycling on and off too much. An 80 gallon size pressure tank only holds 20 gallons of water. If there is no irrigation and the house only uses 60 gallons a day, that is only three times a day the pump...

The Cycle Stop Valve only keeps the pump running all day if you have water running all day. Even with a small tank the CSV only lets the pump cycle maybe 30 times a day for normal house use, which is the same as having a big tank and no Cycle Stop Valve. The CSV is most advantageous when using...

30' of drop adds 13 PSI to what the pump is doing. That gives you better pressure but not constant pressure. Just turn on a shower or a sprinkler and go watch the pressure switch and gauge. The pump will come on at 40 and run for a minute to fill the tank to 60 before it shuts off. Then it...

Looks great, except is it missing the Cycle Stop Valve. Still plenty of room on the inlet side of that tank to add a CSV1A when you decide you want good strong constant pressure and for the pump and tank to last longer. Just need to cut the poly pipe back about 4".

Be glad to help but don't understand the problem. Maybe post some pictures and start a new thread of your own.

I am also about as old fashioned as you can get. 50+ years ago I was installing the largest galvanized tanks I could get on my truck and just testing those new fangled captive air tanks (bladder/diaphragm tanks). But even though they were suppose to be physically much smaller, I would use two...

Any kind of pit is a pain. Confined space to work in and causes humidity that rust out the pressure tank, and turns all electrical components like the pressure switch green. You nearly need to keep a fan blowing air through the pit to keep the humidity down. A pitless adapter with the tank...

Large pressure tanks are an old way of controlling a pump and require lots of space and heat. With more modern ways of controlling a pump like a Cycle Stop Valve large pressure tanks are no longer needed. With something that solves the cycling problem like a CSV controlling the pump, a tank as...

It is the high frequencies that I need. Mine do not even amplify the low frequencies as I don't need that. Don't know what frequency the Oticon goes up to but until I got them I thought frogs, crickets, and birds had gone extinct. Now when I go out in the woods and turn them up to max it is...

Wow! I am gonna have to try that. Lol! However, a lot of things disappear when I drink. :ROFLMAO: Mine are Oticon. Been very happy.

Even with hearing aids I didn't realize how much lip reading I was doing. While everyone was wearing those stupid masks I couldn't understand a sole. Talk to me while wearing a mask and I am just guessing at what they are saying. Been wanting to try the over the counter aids as they will let...

Buried several of my best friends over many years. Never easy to do. Sorry for your loss. But they bring so much joy while they are with us. I think it was the queen who said "Greif is the price we pay for love". I have grieved deeply many times as payment for the joy and love they gave me...

I would not want to go back to living without it. Only way I can hear the phone while in the car, which I am a lot. I am able to turn down the road noise and turn up the audio volume and equalizer. Phone is the speaker, so just keep it in my shirt pocket and have hands free for driving or...

I think everyone should try their hand a drilling a well. it will teach you more about the laws of physics than you can ever learn in school. Lol! A large diameter well 100' deep is a pretty good undertaking. But it can be done. Normally you don't add pipe as you go with a spudder or cable...

The 1/4" nipple to the pressure switch has a tendency to clog. Be sure and use brass or Stainless, never galvanized. But pressure switches can stick closed for other reasons as well. Ants can get in the points and short them together. I use the medicated ear tags for cattle and hang one on...

Low pressure switch only catches a major break. Won't stop pump unless pressure gets really low. Water heater T&P valves are set at 150 psi. Your pump can't even build that much. Need a 75 psi relief valve for when the pressure switch sticks. Could easily burn up pump when that overpressure...

Any faucet in the system will drain the tank. Just want the pressure gauge on the tank to read zero when checking the air at the top of the tank with a tire pressure gauge. Those two gauges usually read a couple pounds differently. But if not the pressure at the top of the tank should be the...

Yeah we are using up all the surface water as well. Lakes drying out and rivers no longer running is why a lot of wells are not getting replenished. Springs stopped running a long time ago and the wells just keep getting deeper. I don't think it has as much to do with getting your water from...

There are 4 times as many people on this planet as when my Grandfather was using dynamite on the hard spots when spudder drilling. Water is just one of many things the planet cannot supply enough of for so many people. Municipal water doesn't just magically appear. It comes from the same...

My Grandfather used dynamite. Lol! Could get it at the feed store in any small town. They say you can't remember things before age four. But I swear I can remember seeing stuff shoot up in the air through the windshield of his old pickup truck at that age. :)

Both methods have pros and cons. For small wells I wouldn't use a spudder if the rotary will work in that area. Rotary with air is pretty clean. Rotary with mud can take a lot of well development to get the mud cleaned out of the formation like with a high speed bailer. High speed bailers...

Everybody uses VFD's on centrifugal pumps, and they are light years better for constant flow or than dumping excess flow back to the tank. But for constant pressure applications, VFD's are not light years better than throttling valves like was done in the old days. Most people are starting to...

Yes, at full load motors require 0.25 fps flow to stay cool. But with an amp drop or de-rated by as little as 11% motors can safely pump 130 degree water. With 25% amp drop they can handle 140 degree water. If amps dropping by as little as 11% can make pumps tolerate 130 degree water, it...

Yes, cycling on and off is what destroys most pump systems. So, a product that stops cycling is disruptive to the pump industry and they try everything they can to keep it from being mainstream. I showed one company how they could build a Cycle Stop Valve into the discharge head of their above...

All manufacturers sell to the consumer. They usually just sell under a different name so they can say they only sell to the installers. But everybody knows a Water Worker tank is an Amtrol. Everybody knows brands like Utilitech and Flotec are made by companies like Pentair and Franklin. Cycle...

Cycle Stop Valves are stocked by most of the water well supply houses. They are readily available to any pump installer. However, most pump installers will not mention a CSV until you have had several big pressure tanks fail, tried a couple of VFD's, and nothing seems to work or last. Then the...

I know they filter the air. They even scrub out the CO2. I would imagine Astronaut skin cells and dandruff would be more problem than any graphite that might get air born when writing with a pencil. I can see where an enclosed pencil sharpener would be needed though. But an ink cartridge...

I like the graph. I hit "Mount Stupid" about 1990 when I thought VFD's were the best thing since sliced bread. Electronics is what I studied in school. I don't hate VFD's, I think they are fantastic. I have several of them myself. When using a piston, gear pump, or even a conveyor belt you...

It would take more than 50 GPM to lift small stones in 4" casing. I don't think they came from below, unless the well filled in to the bottom of the motor. Then there would be enough velocity between the motor and casing to bring up rocks to the suction. But rocks on top of the pump most...

If there is no pressure on the bladder the acceptance volume of an 86 gallon tank should be 86 gallons. Both are worthless numbers because the drawdown of an 86 gallon tank is only 23 gallons at most.

I think what they call the maximum acceptance volume for an 80 gallon tank is about 53 gallons. But that is a stupid number to publish as it doesn't mean anything. Looking at this chart you can see the actual draw down of a WX320, 86 gallon size tank is only 23 gallons at 40/60 pressure. That...

I am always surprised by the misconceptions people have about how pumps work. All the water volume and pressure comes from the pump. A pressure tank is 75% air so an 80 gallon tank only holds 20 gallons of water, a 20 gallon tank holds 5 gallons of water. A tank does not add pressure or...

Wells in different parts of the country are done differently. We use 5", 6", and 8" PVC casing down to about 300'. 10", 12" and 16" casing and anything deeper than 300' gets steel casing. Most use Mill slots or wire screen at the bottom and all are gravel packed between the casing and larger...

I have been to the classes at the pump distributors as well. They teach using a three phase motor is not only less expensive, but uses smaller and much less expensive wire. Along with the ability to use a smaller pressure tank this can make a VFD system less expensive than a large pressure tank...

VFD's do have there place. I have one on a hydraulic pump for a plastic injection machine, another for a conveyor belt system, and even treadmills benefit from a VFD. But for any pump with a centrifugal impeller a VFD should be as rare as hen's teeth. Centrifugal impellers lose head by the...

Maybe it is because I talk to so many people who are trying to DIY after they have been taken in some way or another by a so called "professional pump installer". But I also sell to a lot of real professional pump installers, and you are correct, good ones do exist. Although, I find that even...

While there are still some good pump men and well drillers out there, they have become the exception, not the rule. Most now will just sell you what they have been taught by manufacturers makes them the most money. This is never the best thing for the end user. You are wise to educate...

The rust problem was not, but short pump life, splines stripped, broken pump shafts, bad start capacitors, burned pressure switches, motor rubbing on casing, tank bladders going bad, even sediment problems in the well are all caused by cycling the pump on and off too much. If you can get the...

There is not much room between a 3.75" pump and 4" steel casing. A little rust in the casing and the pump is stuck. Casing is probably still good. With 1" steel drop pipe the pump man can get rough enough to most likely unstick the pump. A little acid to eat the rust may also be needed. If...

Quick drawing of how to keep the screen on a well pump clean automatically.

It sounds like your well is just a vertical cistern being fed from the pond. There is probably a horizontal French drain with gravel from the well to the pond. Organic material will eventually clog a French drain and no water can get through. You will have the same problem with a pipe from...

I was looking at an old Franklin AIM manual that said only needed a 4KW "internally regulated" generator for a 3HP. But with "externally regulated" it says you need a 10KW. Was just on the wrong line, sorry. I can start a 1.5HP with a 3500 watt, but it lugs down pretty good. With a 10KW you...

A 3HP single phase submersible has a locked rotor amperage of 71 and takes at least a 4KW generator to start. Starting a pump against a "load" or pressure is actually easier than when there is no pressure against it. The first start of a submersible will take a lot more amps than when starting...

Sorry I missed this. Yes, you can use a float and just cut one of the wires if the float switch is rated for the max amps of the motor. If not, you will need a contactor or relay to energize the pump, while the float switch just energizes the relay. Like this. You also need something like...

I thought I replied to this? A hole in the steel pipe just above the pump is caused by electrolysis from two dissimilar metals. Covering the check valve and up the pipe a foot or two with electric tape will prevent that from happening. Using plastic pipe will also prevent that problem, just...

Exactly!!! That is why a Cycle Stop Valve is the most important part of a long lasting pump system.

I will probably be pushing up daisies in 27 years myself. But if not or until then I don't want to have to be pulling up my well pump. Pumps are not made as good as they were 27 years ago. Eliminating the cycling is the best way to make these cheaper built pumps last. Eliminating the cycling...

Glad you got it working. Just FYI that hole above the pump was caused by electrolysis from two dissimilar metals being close together. About 10 cents worth of electric tape over the check valve and up the pipe a foot or two would have prevented that from happening. The plastic pipe will also...

If you can find a high pressure kill switch like they use on pivot sprinklers, a switch will work. But a regular pressure switch will turn the pump right back on when the pressure drops 20 PSI. It will also make the pump rapid fire cycle on and off when using anything less than the max flow of...

The submersible that has a max head of 79 PSI will work with a 75 PSI pressure relief valve. These relief valves are very common in 1/2" and 3/4" sizes for 10 to 15 bucks. But you should not dump the relief water back into the well. This will aerate and stir up the well, causing minerals to...

No, you should not completely block flow from a jet pump or any pump. With a jet pump the water will start getting hot in just a couple minutes. Any longer with no flow and damage will occur. You also cannot use a pressure relief valve with a jet pump as a jet pump only builds 50-60 PSI and...

It is not good if the ground is wet and the water in the well is not getting up to the drain port. That means either the seal around the casing is bad or the casing has a hole or crack. Make sure the water is not coming from the pitless or the underground pipe to the house when the pump is...

A low pressure cut off is also not very effective to protect from a broken line either. The break must be large enough to cause the pressure to get low. Any leak less than the max flow of the pump will still cause flooding. I use a Samsung Smarthub, an Aeotec Smart Switch, and have leak...

Those hydrants can let out enough water to make the pump system go off on low pressure. Reducing the air charge in the pressure tank about 5 PSI should stop the low pressure cut off switch from bouncing the pump off when the hydrant is opened. However, a low pressure cut off is not very good...

As was said, as long as there is no check valve above ground it will work. The only check valve needed is the one down the well on the pump anyway. The most important thing is to match whatever size irrigation zones you have to the size of the pump. If the sprinklers are not using ALL the...

The sprinkler pressure is low, but the well is not being pumped dry. So, the well screen and well are making plenty of water. The muck in the water could have damaged the impellers so they will not perform like they once did. Or, there could be muck in the pump screen or impellers. Or, a 20...

The OP changed or added to the topic when his pump quit from a start cap going out. So, I think we are still on topic as both problems can be related. I just keep trying to ease doubts about the CSV as it will solve one of those problems, and maybe both, if the sediment is related to the pump...

Can't believe you got them to admit the tanks were made to fail after a certain time. That employee will get fired if they find out. It is a part of most non-disclosure agreements that no one talks about planned obsolescence. Usually only the higher ups in the corporations know anything about...

I didn't know what is was either. I also had never heard of "planned obsolescence". And I got real angry when I figured out what they were. I cannot believe that almost every product we buy is deigned to fail in a certain and short amount of time, but they are. I had been going to pump...

The CSV is just as efficient as a VFD, which many people claim will SAVE energy even thought it doesn't. However, both the VFD and the CSV use more energy per gallon when using low flow rates. A house doesn't use much water, and there is usually no difference in the electric bill when using a...

With a pump that can build over 300 PSI it is usually in a low producing well with a high static water level. A pump building that much pressure is unusual and is the hardest application for a CSV. But usually the well pipe is rated for enough pressure to handle the back pressure. We just...

And I thought you knew what you were talking about. Lol! There is no logical reason to "not be a fan" of Cycle Stop Valves. If you have any doubts, you just need more education on how pumps work as there isn't a fly in the ointment of a Cycle Stop Valve. If you have any specific claims...

OK, so do you know what causes a starting capacitor to go bad? Too much starting or "cycling". Cycling can also stir up sediment in the well, destroy tank bladders, check valves, pressure switches, and most expensively the pump/motor itself. As steve tym said, unless there is a second check...

With a regular hydro tank there is usually a Schrader on a check valve before the water gets to the tank. However, as long as there is a check valve before the tank, it would not be uncommon for the Schrader to be installed on top of the well head tee. The check valve just may not have the...

I have pulled lots of pumps by hand that were 200' or so. On poly pipe with a high static water level it comes out pretty easy. Any kind of rigid pipe is more difficult, but can still be done. PVC will bend nearly as much as poly and can be pulled out all in one piece the same way. Steel...

Not much room beside a well pump in 4" casing to put in a hand pump. As was said, hand pumping from 200' is not an easy job. Takes a pretty good size fan on a windmill to turn it. Windmills are good, but expensive and require lots of maintenance. Generator is the way to go, as long as you...

Yes you have a casing adapter for the vertical pump. But if you want to switch to a horizontal style pump you will need a different casing adapter.

That is actually considered a two pipe deep well jet pump, which uses the casing as the second pipe as you mention. You can use a horizontal deep well jet, but will need a 2" casing adapter.

Yep. Looks like 2" casing which means you are stuck replacing the with same kind of pump. Those are good pumps though and work well with a Cycle Stop Valve.

I think yours may have the motor on top like a vertical jet pump.

Sounds like a deep well jet pump. Like was said switching to a submersible can have many advantages. But I am afraid you may have only 2.5" casing. The casing will need to be at least 4" diameter to use a submersible. If it is 2" or 2.5" casing you are stuck with an ejector at the bottom and...

Have a few digital meters that are nice. But I still prefer my old analog Amprobe. With the digital you can't see a bounce to peak like on pump start or see dips and fluctuations like you can watching the needle on the old style meters. The same thing with pressure gauges. A liquid filled...

From the depth I would guess it is a 10 GPM pump. But if it is a 5 GPM pump it will still pump about 9 GPM as the pressure gets low. Either way the amps will stay at 6 if the pump is pumping all it can, and will drop to 3 amps if you pump the well dry. An amp meter is a pump mans most used tool.

Just run the pump and watch the amp meter. 6 amps means it is pumping lots of water. If after a time it drops to 3 amps, you have pumped the well down below the depth of the pump. If it goes from 6 amps to 30 and trips the overload, the motor has cycled has many times as it is going to and...

I agree your pump should be set above the casing at 79'. Draw down of 55' means you have plenty of water. I would not lower it below the casing. I still think your original problem is the pump cycling too much and tripping the overload, not running dry.

Sorry for your problems. But anytime you drill a well it is a gamble. Some areas are more of a gamble than others. You can get all the good clean water you want, or you could spend thousands fracking and filtering to just get enough to get by. But water is a fairly important thing. People...

My earliest memory is of looking through the windshield of a pickup and feeling/watching water and debris fly straight up out of a well that was being drilled by my grandfather. Back then you could buy dynamite at the feed store. It was a common thing for my grandfather to use when his old...

In rock wells fracking can sometimes make a big improvement. It is sometimes just a crap shoot as to weather it will work or not, but if the well is not producing as it is, it is usually worth a try. I have no idea what fracking a well would have to do with needing to repaint a house?

I know I am getting old, but I cannot believe the prices they charge to drill wells these days. 50-100K is not uncommon, and I heard of one that cost almost 2 million, but that was under very unusual conditions. Just to make everyone feel bad, in the 90's I was still drilling 200' deep wells...

Contractors equipment probably uses and leaks that much oil on a regular basis. Lol! There wouldn't be half empty buckets that nobody cared about unless that were true. I have a Komatsu that drinks that 10W stuff. :(

One of the good things about open loop geo is that it can utilize an existing water well. You should not need a well for every ton, but rather 1.5 GPM for every ton. If one well can make 6 GPM it will work for a 4 ton unit. If you don't have a good place to dump, you may need to drill an...

Like I said, a trickle is not enough. Say you have a 44 gallon size pressure tank that holds 10 gallons of water. If you trickle a 1/4 of a GPM it will take 40 minutes for the tank to empty and the pump to come on. In 40 minutes the line from the well to the tank and the line to the pressure...

With a well pump, trickling is not usually enough. Depending on the size of your pressure tank it may take a long time for the trickle to make the pump come on. During the time you are tricking water, the little 1/4" nipple to the pressure switch will freeze, as that is the smallest pipe in...

A lot of open loop heat pumps use an injection well or even inject back into the same well. If heating the water through the heat pump causes any minerals to precipitate out of solution, the solids can plug the injection well. Water test need to be done to make sure there are no solids in the...

Yeah, sorry for getting off the subject. I was helping with the stuck pump until someone mentioned the CSV around post #140. Then I got into the same old discussions I have been having for the last 30 years on how a CSV works. But I thought it was a good discussion and part of it had to do...

I am glad you are happy with 30/50 pressure. Most people are not or I would not be in business. 40/60 is the most common setting these days, and people still complain about that. With any filters you lose pressure, and many houses are plumbed with pipe that is too small. And some of those...

It takes an 86 gallon size tank or two 44 gallon size tanks to deliver 25-28 gallons before the pump comes on. As the tank is expressing those 25-28 gallons the system pressure is decreasing from a strong 60 PSI all the way down to 40 PSI which isn't quite, but seems like half pressure. None...

Ditto! I am glad you are happy! I am not trying to talk you out of a perfectly good Subdrive. I just hope you will remember what I said when the time comes to replace it, which maybe sooner than you would like. Have a nice day!

Gosh, I hate to be confrontational. I really am trying to help. Most likely the problem started with the physics teacher. Because if your physics class taught you differently, they taught you incorrectly. However, I fully understand the misunderstanding, as I thought the same way for several...

When well drillers and water engineers have problems they can't solve, they call me for advice. Lol! Your "guide to your deep well adventure" warned you away from a CSV because he wanted to sell you a Subdrive, as he makes a lot more money that way. He was as wrong about that as he was about...

Bladders in tanks fail even more frequently in Mexico and Central America where it never freezes. That is because they commonly use much smaller pressure tanks than normal, which increases pump cycling and the number of times the bladder in the tank goes up and down. Even in colder climates...

A water logged bladder tank will not add a volume of water to anything. Best to cut it in half and use as a watering trough as was suggested. While you are replacing your pressure tank it would be good to learn what causes the bladders to fail and make the tank waterlogged. Cycling on and off...

Well no! That is not how a CSV works. The CSV is not a pressure relief valve. It does not dump excess water. The CSV works like a pressure reducing valve and restricts the flow from the pump to match the amount being used down to 1 GPM. If you are pumping 2.2 GPM all day, the CSV makes the...

You are correct that water flow over the motor is what keeps it cool. And when running at full load amperage a motor needs to run for AT LEAST one minute, two minutes is better, to dissipate the heat caused by start up. Then the motor needs to remain off for AT LEAST a minute, two is better...

Submersibles use a standard check valve, nothing soft close about them. But even silent or slow closing check valves cause water hammer when the pump shuts off while pumping max flow, even just 10 GPM pumps. It is also impossible to stay away from solenoid valves if you have irrigation or a...

Yeah, VFD's are great as long as you can afford to keep them working. If it is a Subdirve and you start having problems you are stuck replacing the expensive controller. if it is a Monodrive with a single phase motor you can replace the VFD with a Cycle Stop Valve. If your second well is...

A pump delivers water straight from a well or a storage tank to the taps. A pressure tanks only purpose is to store the excess water that the pump makes over what is being used. Then, as you said, the pump runs until the cut-off pressure is reached. At that point, water that "came from the...

I think I am being full bore insulted. Lol! The physics of a "backyard water system" is exactly the same as a large scale system. The engineers who were squirted out of the manhole would also disagree with "virtually every design and operation choice has been poor". It was a highly...

You are exactly right. If the ballast or pressure tank is inline with the main line, as when using the old galvanized type tank, the air in the tank can absorb much or all of the shock wave. However, a bladder style tank is teed off the side of the main line. This causes the resulting shock...

Piston pumps are a completely different animal. You can't really just tee a bladder style tank or a water hammer arrestor off to the side of the main line. The pulses from the piston will still travel straight down the pipe, bypassing the tank, and get to the system plumbing. What we call the...

Most people who tell me I am incorrect about some of this are then unable to show how I am incorrect. I may have tried to simplify the information a little too much. But like I said even most engineers do not understand transient pressure waves.

Water hammer happens every time a pump starts or stops and every time a valve is opened or closed. Any time water is started moving from a static condition, stopped from a moving condition, or changes direction water hammer happens. Even water just flowing around an elbow or split at a tee...

There is no difference in cycling between using that hydrant at the well head verses using one in or around the house. The only difference is that any tees after the pressure tank do not cause the water to reverse direction when the pump starts like the one at the well head does. It is not...

As was said, as long as there are no check valves above ground it will work. The only check valve you want or need is the one down the well on the pump itself. But think about this. When you open that faucet the water first comes back from the tank. When the pressure drops to 40 and the pump...

Sorry I missed that. It is unusual to have that many storage tanks ganged together, but I can see where it might be much less expensive than one huge tank. No matter if it is one big tank or a gang of small tanks there needs to be enough water in the storage tank(s) as needed. It is not like...

30+ years ago I also would have suggested a large pressure tank, or two if you could afford it and had the space. But even 20 pressure tanks are never adequate. A system has 20 tanks because an 80 gallon pressure tank only holds 25 gallons of water for a total of 500 gallons. 500 gallons of...

Lot of reading to catch up. A lot of pumps mentioned here are no longer available. Red Jacket, Jacuzzi, and others are no longer available. Most of the brand name pumps have been shortened and cheapened up so much that there is not much difference between them and the cheap pumps available...

VFD's are great for many processes. But they are an expensive Tar Baby for a home well pump system. The idea of constant pressure and variable flow is great. You just don't need a VFD to get that as a simple Cycle Stop Valve will do the same thing. The CSV makes even cheap pumps last much...

Glad you got the pressure relief valve fixed. You already have a brass 1/4" nipple going to the pressure switch, which usually does not clog like galvanized nipples. However, it is possible. It might also be the overload in the motor tripping. These are auto-resetting overloads and they...

Thanks guys. Yes the CSV reduces the amps and uses less energy when pumping lower flow rates. Yes the CSV can work with either large tanks and small pressure tanks. A large pressure tank with a CSV is the best of both worlds for the least number of pump cycles. However, the CSV with a small...

I never use torque arrestors. They get stiff over time, and if they were installed tight enough to work, they can stick the pump in the well. Those plastic spacers or stand offs for the wire can also break and wedge between the pump and small casing, sticking the pump in the well. Chaffing...

If you want to use hose bibs and have the pump come on automatically when you open a bib, a pressure tank and pressure switch are needed. If the electric pole is at the well you need the pressure switch at the well or you would need to run wire to the house for the pressure switch and back to...

Thanks! Yeah the CSV can be the restriction needed for a high water level, but will open up when more water is demanded. Restricting is good for a pump and reduces amperage. But you don't want it restricted when you need more water. The CSV only restricts when needed. But there are lots of...

NO matter how deep the pump is installed it is still only lifting from the actual water level. However, many times the water level will start out high and be drawn down all the way to the pump. In these cases you need to size the pump to draw from the depth of the pump setting, and may need to...

80% is good! I doubt they will have to cut the pump off, as such a small pump will probably come out when they pull on the pipe. But I know of a well that has 5 pumps underneath the one being used at this time. Best of luck catching the fish! Lol!

Yeah getting a wall hook and the tools needed to fish through that 4" liner is going to be a problem. Only thing might save you is if the camera shows a thread or coupling sticking up and not against the well wall. That way they could just send a pipe down and with help from the camera just...

Depending on how far it fell, the bottom of the motor could look like a hollow point bullet all mushroomed out. The pipe can also look like a cork screw sometimes. But maybe it didn't fall far or hard. Even so, it will be stuck in the muck and take probably twice as much pull as you have...

Low pressure curt off switches only work with big leaks. Small leaks will still flood the house. Plus, low pressure switches are a nuisance, as you have to go hold the lever to start the pump again after every power outage or every time the wife turns on one too many hoses. The variable flow...

Every tool and box store is selling that pump. It is the only pump I have seen that says, "Not for Continuous Use". What the heck is the duty cycle then? Is it only OK to run for two minutes or ten minutes at a time? Then how long does it need to cool down before restarting. As was said...

Here is a picture of some floating submersibles with a control system that sits on the shore.

A lot of people irrigate from rivers, ponds, lakes, etc. With drip you have to filter it. With sprinklers the sediment will just be pumped out the sprinklers. Always better to push water than draw water with a pump. So, a submersible well pump would be best. You can use some PVC sell casing...

Letting the wife water anyway she wants will cycle the pump to death. Having to replace a pressure switch or losing air from the tank are just the first signs the pump is cycling on/off way too much. Cycling is what kills 99% of all pumps. Pumps are made to run 24/7/365, cycling on and off is...

OK thanks. 80,000 gallons at 3.5 GPM is only 380 hours or 15 full days of service over 8 years or 2,920 days. With such a lightly used well it makes sense. I have one I am thinking about trying with batteries (instead of storage) that uses about that same amount of water. I started out...

3.5 GPM for 8 hours a day should be about 900,000 gallons a year? Why you say only 60K gallons? Just trying to figure out how much use the pump got in 8 years?

You really need a diaphragm pump or helical shaft type pump like the RPS in the above link to make it work at any RPM the sun will give it. The problem with diaphragm type pumps is they need a new diaphragm as often as you need to oil or work on a windmill. In the 60's they had a helical shaft...

Windmills are expensive and need yearly maintenance. Climbing the tower to check the oil and pulling the sucker rods and pump barrel is not an easy job either. The only windmill I would ever work on was for my grandfather. He had tied himself about half way up the tower with his belt when his...

I don't like to use Chlorine unless there is absolutely no other way. But they make pellet chlorinators that drop a pellet down the well on a timer connected to the pressure switch. Aerating the water gets rid of a lot of stuff. You can even aerate in the well like when using a Sulfur...

Yep! I can tell all of that by looking at that one little picture. I said I wasn't going to help you anymore so this is for the benefit of anyone else reading this thread. When you live on a well, everything you do is dependent on a dependable supply of well water. You can purchase the...

This one of those times when I wonder why I care and even try to help. I felt bad that my use of the word "boiler drain" made you think I was talking about a boiler. So, I wanted to reiterate how important it is to have a pressure relief valve on a regular water pressure tank. You are the one...

I know you don't want to hear this. But that same iron/mineral that clogged the valve will just as easily clog the pressure switch itself. Just like you saw last time the pressure will increase to as much as the pump can produce. If is doesn't blow a line or your regular "water well pressure...

The relief valve on water heaters is usually set for 150 PSI. Most well pumps cannot build 150 PSI and would not be able to utilize that relief valve. But some can build 120-140 PSI, which could blow up a 100 PSI rated water pressure tank. I use a 75 PSI relief valve with any 40/60 pressure...

Thanks Egon. I never thought about my use of the word boiler drain instead of faucet would make someone think I was talking about a boiler tank. As you said any pressure tank should have a preset pressure relief valve for safety. I don't understand why someone wouldn't want a 10 dollar...

Hope your plumber has good insurance. Have a nice day!

I know exactly what kind of tank you have. I have installed a few thousand of them and had a few wiz by my head when they blow up, like in the picture above. All is not good until you install a 75 PSI relief valve.

Here is a picture of a cinder block well house where that happened. However, in this case the tank went sideways instead of through the roof. You can see the tank floating in the lake at the very top of the picture. The explosion woke me up from a room about a 1/2 mile away.

Even without the ball valve to the pressure switch the nipple itself could clog. This happens all the time. You need a 75 PSI relief valve in place of boiler drain or on a 3/4 tee with the boiler drain. The relief should have been popping off long before your tank pressured up to really high...

Pretty easy to see if the points in the pressure switch open up or not. If they are open, the pump should be off, but I would verify with an amp meter.

If you are sure the pressure switch points open up at 40 PSI and/or you turn off the breaker to make sure the pump shuts off, the only way pressure can climb is if water is coming from somewhere. Many times I have found a buried pressure tank at the well, which pressures up to 100 when the pump...

Any pressure switch will work. Just set it lower than the switch that runs the pump. If the extra switch sees low pressure and makes the contacts, you can wire a light or anything to the switch to alert the owner. This is better than a light on the main pressure switch, as the light could be...

That Drummond pump has got to be the worst in existence. It is the only pump I know of that says "Not for continuous duty". This means it is very cheaply built and not made to run very much. Adding additional pressure tanks at the end of lines is not good, as friction loss causes them to fill...

Glad you got it working. Everything in a water pump system from the pump, check valve, pressure switch, to the bladder tank is destroyed from the pump cycling on and off. Add a Cycle Stop Valve and you will most likely never have a problem again as long as you live.

If the pump wasn't already off, the pressure would keep climbing and not stop at 40 or 28. I think 40 is just a coincidence and it is turning off because the internal auto re-setting overload in the motor is tripping. Waiting a minute or so and the water just magically coming back on is a...

If the pressure switch is turning the pump on at 20, it should be turning it off at 40. I think the overload in the motor is tripping at like 28 before the tank is full. Then it takes a minute or so for the overload in the motor to cool down and reset. During that time the pressure goes to...

A three phase motor is actually a little lighter than a single phase. Pump and motor will weight 80# give or take though. Sch 120 PVC pipe full of water weighs 2.2# per foot. 280' would be 616#. With maybe a 100# of wire and fittings your looking at 800# or so. Until it comes up out of the...

A set of pipe elevators and a pipe holder or slips makes it a lot safer, but takes more height on the boom. With a good rubber jaw pipe holder you can hold the pipe anywhere and not just at the couplings. Then with a couple of short nylon lifting straps you can lift from the pipe as well and...

With a snatch block hanging below the tripod and the casing being 2' above ground you will need close to a 30' of tripod.

As an old well driller and pump man myself, I am ashamed of most people in the pump business these days. In my days there where professionals who knew what they were doing, tried to install the best systems, wanted them to be affordable, and to last a long time. These days no one knows...

I guess they could also make caskets out of those wind turbine blades. Archeologist in 10,000 years will be amazed at the preservations of the bodies? Lol! A playground on every block with a bridge to it would still only use a fraction of what needs to be disposed of or recycled.

I think they have like 600 coal fired plants being built in China right now. They need the electricity to manufacture all those batteries and wind turbines to send to the US. Lol!