Logging on someone else’s ground.

[dodge man]

This is a friend of a friend thing. He owns 128 acres and an adjoiner had his ground logged and they cut a few trees over the line. One in particular a good sized walnut. This 128 acre tract of ground has been surveyed and is in CREP. CREP ground is in permanent set aside, as in forever, no farming, no logging no mowing, you can hunt on it and ride around but that’s about it. They found a couple of corners and it seems there is little doubt it was logged over the line. The trees are near the boundary also, within a few feet of it. I’m not sure how many trees we’re talking about but maybe half a dozen.

This happened about 1 1/2 years ago. This corner of the ground is pretty remote so he just discovered it. In Illinois it’s triple damages for logging on someone else. Of course he didn’t see them do it but that may or may not be relevant. The local conservation office is helping by determining the value of the trees. They could in theory pursue charges for logging on the set aside ground but I bet they don’t.

Anybody have any experience in something like this?

 

[anomad]

I've been close to similar situations, but not on my land. I'd report it to state authorities and see if they pursued it. I don't know what CREP is? I'll look that up.

 

[Lineman North Florida]

A neighbor had his placed logged a number of years ago back before my dad passed and the loggers cut over the line probably 40 or 50 feet, he and I rode around there and talked to the neighbor and he said he would get them stopped in the morning when they came back and would make it right monetarily and was very apologetic , dad told him not to worry about it just to get them stopped from coming any farther. If you have good neighbors try being understanding because the shoe can always be on the other foot.

 

[dodge man]

CREP=conservation reserve enhancement program. CRP is common and is set aside ground(no farming) and has a time limit, usually a few years. You get paid not to farm it. The CREP was generally for watershed ground to keep silt out of rivers and the owners got a lump sum payment and additional payments over a period of several years. The ground is to never be farmed again.

I’m a retired land surveyor and did 40 to 60 of these CREP surveys, some pretty large. One land owner said the government payments was quite a bit more then he paid for the ground.

 

[jyoutz]

There is actually no excuse for this. A timber sale should always have the boundaries marked before operations start. Flagging as a minimum, more typically paint marking. Whoever prepared the sale is negligent.

 

[anomad]

CREP=conservation reserve enhancement program. CRP is common and is set aside ground(no farming) and has a time limit, usually a few years. You get paid not to farm it. The CREP was generally for watershed ground to keep silt out of rivers and the owners got a lump sum payment and additional payments over a period of several years. The ground is to never be farmed again.

I’m a retired land surveyor and did 40 to 60 of these CREP surveys, some pretty large. One land owner said the government payments was quite a bit more then he paid for the ground.

Gotcha, I am very familiar with CRP from living in dust bowl states. Just hadn't heard of CREP. Thanks for explaining.

 

[Molalla1]

There is actually no excuse for this. A timber sale should always have the boundaries marked before operations start. Flagging as a minimum, more typically paint marking. Whoever prepared the sale is negligent.

No there is not, around in our area of DF you can add up some several 1,000-10,000 bf by fudging just a little.

 

[GrandpaSmurf825]

My daughter looked at some land a couple years ago that had the land locked up in CREP. They backed away after they learned the restrictions which are many and as you say forever. They were looking fo a property to build on and that's not allowed. The seller got the payment for it but it becomes useless to anyone else.
Here's the regulations link.

https://dnr.illinois.gov/content/dam/soi/en/web/dnr/conservation/crep/documents/moreinfoactivities.pdf

 

[Jstpssng]

There is actually no excuse for this. A timber sale should always have the boundaries marked before operations start. Flagging as a minimum, more typically paint marking. Whoever prepared the sale is negligent.

You're assuming that they weren't. Back line where nobody ever visits, a couple of high value trees... let's take a chance.
We got rid of most of the contractors like that, but there's still a few around.

 

[garry1p]

My neighbor sold his trees to loggers, while I owned land bordering his land, I had no experience with loggers.

My BIL cautioned me, "If they see a nice hard wood close to your line they will encroach with a bulldozer and take the tree then claim they couldn't see the markers from the bulldozer". Unless you have a picture of them taking the tree there is not much you can do.

I bought a lot of ski ropes and strung them on the property line high enough so they couldn't say, "I didn't see the property line".

Later when I checked none of my trees were taken and there were several that would have been very tempting.

 

[Molalla1]

You're assuming that they weren't. Back line where nobody ever visits, a couple of high value trees... let's take a chance.
We got rid of most of the contractors like that, but there's still a few around.

Best way Jstpssng, do your own logging teach each generation, my grandfather taught me early on.

 

[Bocephous]

I'd talk to the logging company first. We had our property logged a few years ago; the boundary's were clearly marked, and the trees chosen to be taken were also marked.

 

[JJT]

You discovered this a year and a half after the logging. I don't see much recourse now.

We bought a lot where the neighboring lot had been logged 3 years before and the loggers snag a few nice trees on the lot we bought. The sellers had no idea. The trees were cut off at ground level, the loggers knew they were poaching. Nothing left behind, no limbs, no tops, clean as can be. The neighboring lot that was logged had stumps 12" tall and most of the wedges, tops and limbs were left behind.

 

[Jstpssng]

You discovered this a year and a half after the logging. I don't see much recourse now.

We bought a lot where the neighboring lot had been logged 3 years before and the loggers snag a few nice trees on the lot we bought. The sellers had no idea. The trees were cut off at ground level, the loggers knew they were poaching. Nothing left behind, no limbs, no tops, clean as can be. The neighboring lot that was logged had stumps 12" tall and most of the wedges, tops and limbs were left behind.

We have two years, as a general rule.
All that I'd do is contact the Maine Forest Service and they'd do the legwork.
I've been on both sides... 5:00 one morning I got a call from the buncher operator stating "I crossed the line in the dark." I contacted MFS who got in touch with the affected owner, then went out and measured stumps. They have some formula based on stump diameter, we paid the landowner, then the contractor reimbursed us.

Best way Jstpssng, do your own logging teach each generation, my grandfather taught me early on.

We cut tens of thousands of cords every year, that would be difficult.

 

[nyone]

I'd talk to the logging company first. We had our property logged a few years ago; the boundary's were clearly marked, and the trees chosen to be taken were also marked.

This is how it should be done and how i have seen it done. Every tree marked and accounted for. There's no reason to say you could see the boundary.

I have seen state land logged in this fashion. Every tree marked, pivot trees marked next to the marked skidder road. They pretty much know the board feet coming out of there and what species.

 

[jyoutz]

This is how it should be done and how i have seen it done. Every tree marked and accounted for. There's no reason to say you could see the boundary.

I have seen state land logged in this fashion. Every tree marked, pivot trees marked next to the marked skidder road. They pretty much know the board feet coming out of there and what species.

Yep. That is how us foresters prepare timber sales. But I prefer marking leave trees.

 

[Snobdds]

All the timber sites I've seen that have been marked either by the USFS or a private timber sale, had things very clearly marked out.

You have to be an idiot to cut things beyond the boundaries.

 

[dodge man]

I’ve been behind loggers before and I’ve never seen one get a boundary survey. Keep in mind Illinois isn’t a big logging state.

This isn’t my ground either, happened to an acquaintance.

 

[ultrarunner]

I had a massive old growth cedar stolen within my property line… discovered it on my last visit.

It was a favorite of mine… if that makes sense, but I have no way to know who stole it.

Still bugs me on several fronts…

 

[jyoutz]

I’ve been behind loggers before and I’ve never seen one get a boundary survey. Keep in mind Illinois isn’t a big logging state.

This isn’t my ground either, happened to an acquaintance.

It’s not the loggers that mark the boundaries. It’s whoever is preparing the timber sale for the landowner who marks boundaries. Anyone who just gives the logger free rein deserves the outcome they get. If it’s private land, typically a consulting forester prepares the timber sale and contract provisions.