Regarding my tractor's possible issues with the injection pump!

[Arber]

Hi, everyone I am new here and have been having some issues with my Ford 3000 tractor.
Here goes>
The tractor refuses to start at 12v and basically cranks forever(there is no smoke while cranking or even an attempt to start) however at 24v(two 100AH batteries in series or 24v) it starts right up! Yet it doesn't smoke even when it first starts or when pulling things or even when punching the gas... it simply never smokes!
Now I have rebuilt the starter at a local starter machine shop thinking that is the issue but nothing really changed really it cranks the same like some videos I have watched on youtube so there is no problem there also compression should not be an issue since it works very well and pulls great once started and running but still doesn't smoke, it has a down exhaust pipe and the pipe is in good condition and not clogged.
My current suspicion is the injection pump which is a Lucas CAV DPA pump and it does have an issue where if you run it out of diesel bleeding it is a literal nightmare which does point out to the pump or rather the vane pump!
It has all new fuel filters as well as clean everything lines tank everything is spotless. Is there hope that I can fix the problem myself or just get the pump rebuilt and stop pulling my hair or could the problem be elsewhere!
Previously I have owned various Massey Fergusson tractors and none have had this problem!
Any suggestion feel free!

Edit: The shutoff lever doesn't reset fully after shutting off which is another clue to the problem being with the injection pump!

 

[Mike1955]

To me it sounds like low compression while spinning at a slightly lower rate of speed. Question is it spinning to slow; or is the compression actually lower than should be. I am not a ford mechanic but I would say that starting circuit needs a good hard look. Battery, starter and everything in between. That is the starting place since 24 volts starts it

 

[dodge man]

My thought was low compression also. It certainly could be the injection but it could be the injectors too. It could be lots of things, valves adjusted, broken rings, bad valve seat, the list is long.

 

[alexbennet]

Sounds like your starter and battery setup is fine if it runs on 24v. The fact it won’t start on 12v points to the injection pump not getting enough pressure to fire. Since you’ve checked fuel lines and filters, the pump is the main suspect. Rebuilding it could fix the issue, but you could also check the pump timing and make sure there’s no air trapped anywhere before spending money.

 

[Tx Jim]

It's a mystery to me when you attach two 12 volt batteries attached in series to attain 24 volts to tractor with 12 volt electrical system why the alternator & voltage regulator don't get "FRIED/TOASTED"!

I agree maybe engine has low compression causing no starting situation using 12 volts.

 

[Tinhack]

Start saving up a handful of $100 bills for an injector pump rebuild. And check the compression.

 

[Arber]

It's a mystery to me when you attach two 12 volt batteries attached in series to attain 24 volts to tractor with 12 volt electrical system why the alternator & voltage regulator don't get "FRIED/TOASTED"!

I agree maybe engine has low compression causing no starting situation using 12 volts.

Because i had a 24v alternator laying around so i installed it also i did disconnect all the other stuff that might get fried like fuel gauge etc as well as all lamps are now 24v!
PS: I did fry one solenoid by accident but since then the starter has been rebuilt and is up to spec.
Edit: It can't really be low compression otherwise it would be gushing white/grey smoke like crazy, mine simply does not smoke at all not white nor grey nor blue nothing not even black....you actually have to put your hand on the muffler to feel the hot air and that's it, it is a really strange issue, cheers mate!

 

[Arber]

To me it sounds like low compression while spinning at a slightly lower rate of speed. Question is it spinning to slow; or is the compression actually lower than should be. I am not a ford mechanic but I would say that starting circuit needs a good hard look. Battery, starter and everything in between. That is the starting place since 24 volts starts it

I haven't really checked compression but the tractor pulls good and hasn't even the faintest smoke on the exhaust, I know how a diesel engine with low compression looks like and behaves like, gushing white/grey smoke everywhere, also i did forget to mention that it doesn't pollute the oil or consume it at all, the engine doesn't vibrate or anything. My only conclusion would be bad injection pump, since the previous owner did mention that he ran it dry once at it was a nightmare to prime it which does make me believe the pump is the only problem. I'also tried advancing the timing a couple ticks at a time with no luck the engine behaves the same.

Edit: The shutoff lever doesn't reset fully after shutting off which is another clue!

 

[Arber]

Start saving up a handful of $100 bills for an injector pump rebuild. And check the compression.

Will do thanks!
I edited the main thread with some other details!

 

[dodge man]

It definitely could be your injection pump. I would just eliminate other items first. I honestly don’t know what a low compression diesel looks like or runs like either. I’d pull the injectors and send them in with the pump if you go that route.

 

[Gregster613]

I had an older Ford that acted the same way when starting on 12v. In my case the shutoff lever wasn’t returning fully and it restricted the fuel a lot. Since you said yours doesn’t reset all the way, the mechanism inside the pump might be sticking. I cleaned and lubricated the lever assembly and it made a huge difference.

Good advice, I hope Arber sees it!!

 

[rangerfredbob]

I still have to get my 2000 working but similar issues, I know for a fact the pump is just gummed up, been through it once now but must have broken something else loose...

Reseal kits are only like $15 for these pumps, not super hard to deal with. I took the starter off and just dealt with the business end of the pump in the back (after taking the top off of course).

There's a check valve and screen in the fuel inlet to the vane pump which could be suspect on yours.

Refurbished pumps aren't super expensive, but yeah, I don't want to do that yet either...

 

[boatmoter]

Hi, everyone I am new here and have been having some issues with my Ford 3000 tractor.
Here goes>
The tractor refuses to start at 12v and basically cranks forever(there is no smoke while cranking or even an attempt to start) however at 24v(two 100AH batteries in series or 24v) it starts right up! Yet it doesn't smoke even when it first starts or when pulling things or even when punching the gas... it simply never smokes!
Now I have rebuilt the starter at a local starter machine shop thinking that is the issue but nothing really changed really it cranks the same like some videos I have watched on youtube so there is no problem there also compression should not be an issue since it works very well and pulls great once started and running but still doesn't smoke, it has a down exhaust pipe and the pipe is in good condition and not clogged.
My current suspicion is the injection pump which is a Lucas CAV DPA pump and it does have an issue where if you run it out of diesel bleeding it is a literal nightmare which does point out to the pump or rather the vane pump!
It has all new fuel filters as well as clean everything lines tank everything is spotless. Is there hope that I can fix the problem myself or just get the pump rebuilt and stop pulling my hair or could the problem be elsewhere!
Previously I have owned various Massey Fergusson tractors and none have had this problem!
Any suggestion feel free!

Edit: The shutoff lever doesn't reset fully after shutting off which is another clue to the problem being with the injection pump!

I would do a compression test on it.and have you tried starting fluid while on 12 12 volts?

 

[Redlined0002]

Plungers are sticking inside the injection pump. Needs rebuilt by someone experienced.

 

[Bentrim]

Remove an injector using the fuel line hook up injector so you can see the spray pattern.

DO NOT put any part or your body in front of the injector, it can "inject" diesel fuel into you body resulting in blood poisoning.

Crank tractor and observe the spray from the injector, if any. My thoughts the head (the distributor part) is worn and leaking too much. Indicated by a faster cranking speed it starts.
If the compression was too low you would have excessive blow by, or oil usage. You did not state any of this.
Being it is an older tractor and probably has not had the pump or injectors serviced suggest you at least have the pump tested (a prove me wrong?) and have the injector cleaned and set.

 

[thepumpguysc]

I’m a firm believer in pull an injector and hooking it up OUTSIDE THE ENGINE.. to SEE if it’s firing..
Good luck

 

[CalG]

I am not familar with that tractor's fuel system, but....
Is the fuel shut-off solenoid the type that has both a "pull open" and a "hold open" winding? (three wire?)

That is, if the fuel shut off has a failed "pull open" winding, and the "hold open" winding doesn't allow fuel to pass at 12v, but has enough "umph" to pull open the valve at 24 V. Such a scenario "could" allow the condition described.

I hope the words make sense ;-)

 

[garry1p]

Sounds like you are fairly confident the injector pump is faulty and that is a prime suspect.
Since you sound like you are looking for other causes and suggestions so I will throw this out for you.

Upping to 24V would turn the engine over faster and that changes a lot of dynamics when cranking a diesel like a voltage drop when on 12V, due to a resistive connection, like a bad ground would turn over the engine slower causing a hard to start condition.

On my older tractor it was hard starting more so in cold weather, since I knew there was some low compression I assumed that was the problem. Turned out the wire going to the glow plugs was only 9 volts.

Just something else to consider, I hope you post back and let us know what the actual problem turns out to be.

 

[Eightball1313]

I’m a firm believer in pull an injector and hooking it up OUTSIDE THE ENGINE.. to SEE if it’s firing..
Good luck

someone on here pointed me towards you for questions about a ford 1210 injection pump... i wasnt able to private message you for some reason. was going to see if you could message me instead so we can start a coversation... sorry to hijack this thread a little!

 

[Bentrim]

A lot of folks keep advising for a compression test. Why? What are the signs it needs a compression test and have you purchased the tester and adapters to take the test?
An engine with low compression will show signs that it is low such as excessive blowby, or excessive oil usage, and yes hard starting.
But how long ago was the injection pump or injectors serviced? A pump that leaks internally will not produce enough pressure to pop the injectors to start. Injectors with a poor spray pattern will not atomise the fuel enough to start. Of course starting can also be affected by plugged fuel fiters or inadequat fuel supply, or water in the fuel system.
Is the air filter clean, are the valves adjusted correctly?
Electrical connections and battery condition also affects starting.
For the twenty years I worked with engine you can tell a lot of the engines condition by listening to the engine. Does it turn over even? or is there a cylinder that turn over faster and the the engine slows down, then speeds up and so on. Does run smoothly.I was aked by a manufacturer for a compression test and could not find an adapter to test it, and they could not provide one. Turned out to be water had gotten in the fuel system and killed the pump.
A lot of things can be checked before you go out and buy expensive tools, of course you just may want to add to your toolbox.
Band aids and work arounds don't do anything to fix a problem and may cause more issues than it fixes.