Is the Cyber Truck a Flop?

[DarkBlack]

Correct, on hard ice. But it helps in snow, slush, and other normal winter conditions, though.

….It can…..potentially …. Help on snow, and slush…depending on tread depth, pattern, air pressure, tire width, and other factors.

Compare a lightweight 20 mph radio controlled car, with a mid weight snowmobile, with an average weight car with a heavy tractor trailer truck, and observe the stoppage distance in snow/slush, according to weight…
Guess which stops in the shortest distance?

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

Many years ago I'm driving my '66 Rambler American 6 cyl, '3 on tree' in a snowstorm, I had a heavy toolbox in truck. We check on parents then drive home. On the way wife is thumbing her nose at all the 4x4 trucks stuck by the road...I don’t think we saw another car or truck on road.
I drove on the crown, 35 mph seemed to be the sweet spot except for one long hill near home...50 at bottom easing down to about 10 at top where I turn. Never spin, never touch brakes.

 

[WinterDeere]

….It can…..potentially …. Help on snow, and slush…depending on tread depth, pattern, air pressure, tire width, and other factors.

All other factors equal, weight always improves traction in snow or slush. It has to do with PSI load on the tire, maximize weight and minimize contact patch, for best penetration through any soft media to the pavement below.

I've driven dually pickups and box trucks empty in snow... terrifying!

 

[DarkBlack]

All other factors equal, weight always improves traction in snow or slush.

Again, that’s a common oversimplification, misconception.
Depending on tread depth , tire width, tread pattern, road conditions, …a vehicle may be more stable, or actually less stable in snow and slush with increased weight.

 

[WinterDeere]

Again, that’s a common oversimplification, misconception.
Depending on tread depth , tire width, tread pattern, road conditions, …a vehicle may be more stable, or actually less stable in snow and slush with increased weight.

We were talking traction, not stability. But I'll bite: please lay out a scenario where increased weight, within the limits of all components involved, does not improve traction in snow on the same set of tread-legal tires.

 

[DarkBlack]

We were talking traction, not stability. But I'll bite: please lay out a scenario where increased weight, within the limits of all components involved, does not improve traction in snow on the same set of tread-legal tires.

Easy. When the weight, tire width tread depth, produces a PSI on the snow, slush that creates an ice barrier between the tire and ground.
Happens all the time with tractors with narrow tires, heavy weight.

 

[WinterDeere]

Interesting. How often do you think that really happens in real-world on-road conditions?

 

[DarkBlack]

Interesting. How often do you think that really happens in real-world on-road conditions?

What would be interesting, would be, if you found a statistic showing statistically, that light mass vehicles are involved in more snow/slush accidents than heavier vehicles.

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

For what it's worth:
I've had lots of Hyundai's I bought new and in 2002 driving an '01 Accent (100hp, 2200# manual) from my homeplace to home here...about 15 miles, many hills & we had a blizzard.
I turn to get on a 4 lane expressway and two tractor trailers sideways nose to nose, guys motion me to stop. State police told them do NOT let anyone through...but I waved by, went through to cursing & middle fingers.
I was the only one on road...cars, people everywhere & a real mess.
Never let it spin...if you do your tires are Flintstone ice wheels. So about 35 mph in 3rd
slow & steady on crown. Hills build speed slowly and 5-10mph at top. No brakes...easy & gear down.
I believe it's skill, low hp, low center of gravity and my experience too heavy is detrimental since it sinks down.
Knock on wood I've never had chains, studs, snow tires and never lost control or got stuck.

 

[WinterDeere]

What would be interesting, would be, if you found a statistic showing statistically, that light mass vehicles are involved in more snow/slush accidents than heavier vehicles.

Thats not going to really generate any useful conclusion, if the stat even exists, as people who own vehicles that they know to be poor performers in the snow are going to be more apt to avoid even driving them in the snow.

My prior example of the dually pickup, I always avoided driving that vehicle in the snow, because I knew it was terrible. An un-driven vehicle has an accident rate of zero.

 

[Sprinkler Fitter]

One reason: the weather is much nicer than Minnesota.

In your opinion.

We are retired, we stay in Minnesota because we like the four seasons. I look forward to winter.

I have a buddy here who lives in his house in Montana over the winter because they get more snow out there.

 

[WinterDeere]

we stay in Minnesota because we like the four seasons.

... and you get to enjoy summer for at least 6 hours every 3rd year!

 

[Sprinkler Fitter]

... and you get to enjoy summer for at least 6 hours every 3rd year!

We have actually had a long summer this year.

We have had record temperatures all over the state in October.

I think all of our summers are great, wife and I have owned a food truck for 16 years now and we have cheated the weather that long for the big events we do and 2011 a couple events had rain but otherwise our summers have been great.

Looking forward to some snow now.

 

[jyoutz]

In your opinion.

We are retired, we stay in Minnesota because we like the four seasons. I look forward to winter.

I have a buddy here who lives in his house in Montana over the winter because they get more snow out there.

CA also gets four seasons. The Sierras probably get more snow than most anywhere else in the U.S. I don’t live there, but it’s certainly a nice place with both mountains and warm beaches within a half day drive.

 

[jyoutz]

What would be interesting, would be, if you found a statistic showing statistically, that light mass vehicles are involved in more snow/slush accidents than heavier vehicles.

A light 2wd truck with no weight in the back is squirrelly on snowpack.

 

[NoTrespassing]

All other factors equal, weight always improves traction in snow or slush. It has to do with PSI load on the tire, maximize weight and minimize contact patch, for best penetration through any soft media to the pavement below.

I've driven dually pickups and box trucks empty in snow... terrifying!

Dually pickups get stuck trying to get up my gravel driveway. Happened multiple times.

 

[NoTrespassing]

We have actually had a long summer this year.

We have had record temperatures all over the state in October.

I think all of our summers are great, wife and I have owned a food truck for 16 years now and we have cheated the weather that long for the big events we do and 2011 a couple events had rain but otherwise our summers have been great.

Looking forward to some snow now.

You can keep the snow up there. Other than filling my well, I can do without it. Plowing it on our steep driveway at 5am on the open station Kubota leaves a lot to be desired and I am not looking forward to it!

 

[Blue Mule]

Thanks for all the details. I didn't know about the charging station. Did they do a nice job installing it? I ran wire for a 50 amp outlet in my garage when I built it. Hopefully that's enough power if we decide to get an EV. How many miles per year are you allowed to drive in your lease without having to pay extra?

They did do a nice job. It looks like a professional industrial installation. Nice conduit, wiring, etc. My lease has 10,000 miles annually but you can get more. I honestly have never cared about mileage on any of my leases. I drive like I want to. I've never been charged a penalty. When it's time to trade in dealers are just hungry to make another deal.

That makes more sense. Still interesting they chose 50T lifts, though. What EV is tipping the scales at 100,000 pounds? That's tri-axle dump truck territory!

Yes, the weight of EVs is greatly exaggerated. My F-150 Lightning is around 6,500 lbs. If a shop can't handle 6,500 lbs. on their existing lifts then they've got more serious issues to deal with. ANY 3/4 ton truck is going to weight more.

Hate to rain on your otherwise good post… but vehicle weight does not help at all in ice. It actually hurts performance on ice, a bit.

We can agree to disagree. Weight adds friction. Sure, ice doesn't have the same friction as snow or rain regardless. But the fact is weight still adds friction.

This truck is going to be like a tank in winter weather this year. I'm excited for it.

 

[NoTrespassing]

We can agree to disagree. Weight adds friction. Sure, ice doesn't have the same friction as snow or rain regardless. But the fact is weight still adds friction.

This truck is going to be like a tank in winter weather this year. I'm excited for it.

As long as you remember that it takes longer to stop that extra weight.

 

[WinterDeere]

We can agree to disagree. Weight adds friction. Sure, ice doesn't have the same friction as snow or rain regardless. But the fact is weight still adds friction.

This truck is going to be like a tank in winter weather this year. I'm excited for it.

Hopefully your high-school Physics teacher made your class chant, "Friction is FUN! Friction is FUN!", like ours did. Of course the equation is F = μ·N, where N = Normal force = "weight".

But there are two things confounding your theory here:

1. A certain amount of energy must be put into the pavement to shed speed and stop a vehicle. Of course that energy is E = (m·v^2)/2, so linearly varying with mass. That energy is shed by Force (FUN) times displacement (distance), according to W = F·d, where W = Work = Energy, F = friction force from above, and d is distance traveled until stopped.

2. The classic friction equation is for non-elastic or non-conforming objects. A soft tire on a rough surface (road ice or pavement) is as much plowing over small interferences, as following classic friction.

The resulting answer? I don't know, due entirely to statement 2. But I do suspect Dark Black might be right, for the case of hard ice.