DK 45 Losing Power under load

[wxtrendsguy]

2014 DK45 with a vineyard CIMA airblast sprayer on the 3 pt. Running at 2500 RPM which is the PTO at 540. Flat ground not seeing any issue, however going uphill in low gear at 2-3 mph and the tractor is fine but after about 100 feet going up a 10% slope the RPMs drop and the tractor slows and sounds like its really lugging. Stop forward motion and the RPM comes back up but as soon as I try to move forward the RPMs drop. Turn off the PTO and the RPMs come right back to full power and I can drive up the hill with no issues.

I am guessing its a hydraulic issue since this tractor model is a hydrostatic transmission so the hydraulic system is heavily used for everything. I don't think its a fuel issue but it could be the fuel filter...

 

[Robin Veerman]

How long since you changed the fuel filter? If you haven’t done that recently that’s the first and easiest thing to do….

 

[D&D]

2014 DK45 with a vineyard CIMA airblast sprayer on the 3 pt. Running at 2500 RPM which is the PTO at 540. Flat ground not seeing any issue, however going uphill in low gear at 2-3 mph and the tractor is fine but after about 100 feet going up a 10% slope the RPMs drop and the tractor slows and sounds like its really lugging. Stop forward motion and the RPM comes back up but as soon as I try to move forward the RPMs drop. Turn off the PTO and the RPMs come right back to full power and I can drive up the hill with no issues.

I am guessing its a hydraulic issue since this tractor model is a hydrostatic transmission so the hydraulic system is heavily used for everything. I don't think its a fuel issue.

Is there any wheel slippage? Thats a pretty decent slope for one wheel to pull

 

[wxtrendsguy]

How long since you changed the fuel filter? If you haven’t done that recently that’s the first and easiest thing to do….

Its been some time but I can change that easily enough and was planning to do that before a full blown messy hydraulic dump and filter change.

 

[wxtrendsguy]

Is there any wheel slippage? Thats a pretty decent slope for one wheel to pull

There is no wheel slippage. When the sprayer is loaded there is plenty of weight on the back end to keep from spinning wheels. Its the engine RPM that drop dramatically, if I was spinning a wheel I would not expect to see the engine lug like it does...could be fuel filter or hydraulics are still my first guess.

 

[LouNY]

How long have you had this tractor and that sprayer hooked together?
Looking at those sprayers the smallest requires 25 PTO just for the sprayer, then add in the Hp required to move your tractor up that hill in addition to powering the sprayer.
Trying to maintain that 2-3 mph to keep the same sprayer coverage may require more tractor Hp then you have.

It may be a fuel problem or even an air flow restriction.

I doubt that it is a hydraulic problem, your tractor has a hydrostatic transmission which consists of a hydraulic pump and motor in a combined unit for ground work. Your PTO is strictly mechanical in power transmission, your hydrostatic transmission is separate from the PTO and the other tractor hydraulics.
The tractors hydraulic pump(s) supply hydraulics for cylinders and such and your 2 point hitch and power steering.

It is also the charge pump supply for your transmission, in other words it makes up fluid for what "leaks" from the pump/motor it does not power the tractor.

 

[wxtrendsguy]

How long have you had this tractor and that sprayer hooked together?
Looking at those sprayers the smallest requires 25 PTO just for the sprayer, then add in the Hp required to move your tractor up that hill in addition to powering the sprayer.
Trying to maintain that 2-3 mph to keep the same sprayer coverage may require more tractor Hp then you have.

It may be a fuel problem or even an air flow restriction.

I doubt that it is a hydraulic problem, your tractor has a hydrostatic transmission which consists of a hydraulic pump and motor in a combined unit for ground work. Your PTO is strictly mechanical in power transmission, your hydrostatic transmission is separate from the PTO and the other tractor hydraulics.
The tractors hydraulic pump(s) supply hydraulics for cylinders and such and your 2 point hitch and power steering.

It is also the charge pump supply for your transmission, in other words it makes up fluid for what "leaks" from the pump/motor it does not power the tractor.

Interesting. I have been running this combo for nearly 10 years with no issues. One time late last summer I had an issue where the PTO would not engage the sprayer but no power loss. Added hydraulic fluid and the PTO worked fine and has been fine all year up till now. (I start spraying in May and every 10-14 days till September and each spray session is often 2-3 hrs of operating time.) So its a workout but the Kioti has not seemed to have any trouble till now. Going to swap out the fuel filter and air filter tonight to see it that is an issue before diving into any further causes. Thanks for the suggestion and info

 

[part-time-Farmer-NC]

Hadn't seen you say, have you checked the hyd fluid level? Is it discolored?

 

[wxtrendsguy]

Hadn't seen you say, have you checked the hyd fluid level? Is it discolored?

Yes it was about a quart low when I checked it cold last night. Cannot seem to get an answer from anyone on the proper timing of when to measure using the dip stick. Fluid is nearly clear.

 

[wxtrendsguy]

How long have you had this tractor and that sprayer hooked together?
Looking at those sprayers the smallest requires 25 PTO just for the sprayer, then add in the Hp required to move your tractor up that hill in addition to powering the sprayer.
Trying to maintain that 2-3 mph to keep the same sprayer coverage may require more tractor Hp then you have.

It may be a fuel problem or even an air flow restriction.

I doubt that it is a hydraulic problem, your tractor has a hydrostatic transmission which consists of a hydraulic pump and motor in a combined unit for ground work. Your PTO is strictly mechanical in power transmission, your hydrostatic transmission is separate from the PTO and the other tractor hydraulics.
The tractors hydraulic pump(s) supply hydraulics for cylinders and such and your 2 point hitch and power steering.

It is also the charge pump supply for your transmission, in other words it makes up fluid for what "leaks" from the pump/motor it does not power the tractor.

Turns out your information is only partially correct. I talked to a dealer late this afternoon and while it is true that the PTO is driven by the engine the PTO is engaged by a hydraulically driven clutch which uses hydraulic pressure to clamp the plates together in the the PTO clutch. So low or dirty hydraulic fluid can cause the clutch to slip and the PTO to lose power or disengage slowly. Still does not yet explain the loss of power and near stalling of the engine...so could be 2 problems...low fuid/clogged filter and fuel or air filter issue.

 

[LouNY]

Turns out your information is only partially correct. I talked to a dealer late this afternoon and while it is true that the PTO is driven by the engine the PTO is engaged by a hydraulically driven clutch which uses hydraulic pressure to clamp the plates together in the the PTO clutch. So low or dirty hydraulic fluid can cause the clutch to slip and the PTO to lose power or disengage slowly. Still does not yet explain the loss of power and near stalling of the engine...so could be 2 problems...low fuid/clogged filter and fuel or air filter issue.

Only if your fluid is so low or dirty that the hydraulic pump can't move enough fluid, all of the compacts I've been around the fluid for the pto clutch is from your loader hydraulic circuit not the transmission circuit.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

Blow out the air filter and replace the fuel filter. With a paint pen, write the date and hours on the fuel filter (like it is an aircraft). Then go find out if power returns.

If the power is still not coming back, then compression test to confirm the engine isn't getting tired. If compression is good, then I suspect it is time to clean the injectors.

Reasoning: if the HST or pump was screwing up, under a load, you wouldn't lose power, you'd lose forward movement while the engine just hummed along.

 

[wxtrendsguy]

Blow out the air filter and replace the fuel filter. With a paint pen, write the date and hours on the fuel filter (like it is an aircraft). Then go find out if power returns.

If the power is still not coming back, then compression test to confirm the engine isn't getting tired. If compression is good, then I suspect it is time to clean the injectors.

Reasoning: if the HST or pump was screwing up, under a load, you wouldn't lose power, you'd lose forward movement while the engine just hummed along.

I changed the air filter it needed it. Also the fuel filter which also needed it. So I think I'll just do the hydraulic fluid and filter tomorrow. Its been a long time...
I do somewhat agree with your assessment that if the PTO clutch was slipping it would not cause the engine to struggle...

 

[Robin Veerman]

I recommend that you document maintenance done with the hours at the time. Much better than “it’s been a long time “.

 

[wxtrendsguy]

I recommend that you document maintenance done with the hours at the time. Much better than “it’s been a long time “.

I actually did document it in the owners manual....but now of course I can't find the manual!

 

[wxtrendsguy]

Ok so for those following along in my saga....replaced the air filter...no improvement. Replaced fuel filter...no improvement. Replaced hydrostatic and hydraulic filters and drained and changed hyd transmission fluid....Success. My only problem now is trying get an accurate reading on the dipstick. I only put about 9 gals in but got about 10.25 gals out?? At 9 gals the level is midway between high and low on the stick. Going to have a couple of friends also ready the stick and see if they see the same thing...manual says it takes 11.8Gal...so little bewildered...but at least its working.

 

[boatmoter]

my first check would be the fuel filter. sounds like the engine is bogging down, not racing as if the hydraulics were at fault

 

[boatmoter]

I actually did document it in the owners manual....but now of course I can't find the manual!

can't find the owners manual??? welcome to my world

 

[Tailbent]

2014 DK45 with a vineyard CIMA airblast sprayer on the 3 pt. Running at 2500 RPM which is the PTO at 540. Flat ground not seeing any issue, however going uphill in low gear at 2-3 mph and the tractor is fine but after about 100 feet going up a 10% slope the RPMs drop and the tractor slows and sounds like its really lugging. Stop forward motion and the RPM comes back up but as soon as I try to move forward the RPMs drop. Turn off the PTO and the RPMs come right back to full power and I can drive up the hill with no issues.

I am guessing its a hydraulic issue since this tractor model is a hydrostatic transmission so the hydraulic system is heavily used for everything. I don't think its a fuel issue but it could be the fuel filter...

Something exactly like you describe happened to me with my Kubota a few years ago. It turned out to be the ground cable where the insulation had worn off, or worn thin, where it was bent at a place on the frame. Apparently it would arc with higher current demand. Replaced the ground cable and has run fine since.

 

[blizzardslayer]

2014 DK45 with a vineyard CIMA airblast sprayer on the 3 pt. Running at 2500 RPM which is the PTO at 540. Flat ground not seeing any issue, however going uphill in low gear at 2-3 mph and the tractor is fine but after about 100 feet going up a 10% slope the RPMs drop and the tractor slows and sounds like its really lugging. Stop forward motion and the RPM comes back up but as soon as I try to move forward the RPMs drop. Turn off the PTO and the RPMs come right back to full power and I can drive up the hill with no issues.

I am guessing its a hydraulic issue since this tractor model is a hydrostatic transmission so the hydraulic system is heavily used for everything. I don't think its a fuel issue but it could be the fuel filter...

I’m copying this from a post I wrote several years ago here. I still have not had any issues since. Hope it helps.