HST or 12 speed SHUTTLE SHIFT

   / HST or 12 speed SHUTTLE SHIFT #1  

R Barger

Gold Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Messages
287
Location
Gate City, Va
Tractor
YANMAR YM336D/W Loader JOHN DEERE 850/ W Loader 2WD&4WD Kubota RTV X900 Mahindra 4540 4WD w/Loader
Thinking about a new tractor. I currently bush hog about 4 acres with my Yanmar YM336d 4WD . I have also tried it with one of my John Deere 850 4WD and I prefer the Yanmar because of the power shift. So now I am trying to decide between a HST or geared shuttle shift. Anyone have an idea? Also I might say that some of my ground is fairly steep. I also have a Kubota RTV X900 which I use on the same ground and love it but I have never owned a HST tractor.
 
   / HST or 12 speed SHUTTLE SHIFT #2  
Thinking about a new tractor. I currently bush hog about 4 acres with my Yanmar YM336d 4WD . I have also tried it with one of my John Deere 850 4WD and I prefer the Yanmar because of the power shift. So now I am trying to decide between a HST or geared shuttle shift. Anyone have an idea? Also I might say that some of my ground is fairly steep. I also have a Kubota RTV X900 which I use on the same ground and love it but I have never owned a HST tractor.
Personally, I would be geared shuttleshift. The reason being, it works on all terrains vs HST not so good on hills or slight slopes and HST with loaders you go really SLOW.
 
   / HST or 12 speed SHUTTLE SHIFT #3  
This! The i-HMT transmission is class leading.

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   / HST or 12 speed SHUTTLE SHIFT #4  
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   / HST or 12 speed SHUTTLE SHIFT #5  
So many choices, yet can only pick 1 tractor! :LOL:
 
   / HST or 12 speed SHUTTLE SHIFT #6  
Keeping true to Yanmar's YM Series, the next YM generations does just that.

Its a Yanmar Red Apple with Tree Frog rims! A machine ready for rotary tilling and more. You loved your classic YM right, then look at the next generation in YM. And the wide YM mirrors keep with tradition too. No longer a Gray Market machine when its now here!

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   / HST or 12 speed SHUTTLE SHIFT #7  
Thinking about a new tractor. I currently bush hog about 4 acres with my Yanmar YM336d 4WD . I have also tried it with one of my John Deere 850 4WD and I prefer the Yanmar because of the power shift. So now I am trying to decide between a HST or geared shuttle shift. Anyone have an idea? Also I might say that some of my ground is fairly steep. I also have a Kubota RTV X900 which I use on the same ground and love it but I have never owned a HST tractor.

I mow around 10 acres of pasture. I started with a gear drive Mahindra 5010 and traded for a HST MX5800 Kubota and, in my opinion the HST makes mowing so much nicer. You have infinite travel speeds so you can go exactly as fast as comfortable depending on the ground and obstacles. The gear drive always seemed either a little too fast or a little too slow... or a little too slow in sections where the ground was smooth and then way too fast in the rough areas.

Now, if you have the money, then Yanmar's HMT looks like maybe the best of both worlds.

Aaron
 
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   / HST or 12 speed SHUTTLE SHIFT #8  
Personally, I would be geared shuttleshift. The reason being, it works on all terrains vs HST not so good on hills or slight slopes and HST with loaders you go really SLOW.
I'm confused. I agree with your reasons, but think they are all reasons to get an HST, and reasons to not get a shuttle shift.
 
   / HST or 12 speed SHUTTLE SHIFT #9  
I mow around 10 acres of pasture. I started with a gear drive Mahindra 5010 and traded for a HST MX5800 Kubota and, in my opinion the HST makes mowing so much nicer. You have infinite travel speeds so you can go exactly as fast as comfortable depending on the ground and obstacles. The gear drive always seemed either a little too fast or a little too slow... or a little too slow in sections where the ground was smooth and then way too fast in the rough areas.

Now, if you have the money, then Yanmar's HMT looks like maybe the best of both worlds.

Aaron
This is exactly my experience with an HST vs fixed gears.
 
   / HST or 12 speed SHUTTLE SHIFT #10  
When you look at any type of gear shift tractor, there are three areas to consider. When I was looking at tractors, I found it took a little digging to get past the brochure jargon and happy-thoughts to figure out what the tractor really had. And there are a LOT of different combinations.

1) Reverser. Most modern tractors have a "power reverser" which is a column mounted stalk that gives you F-N-R control without any clutching. No gear changes, just F-N-R in whatever gear you are in.

2) Gear shifting can be manual unsynchronized, manual synchronized, or power shift. Manual unsynchronized means you need to clutch, stop moving, shift, then start up again. Manual synchronized means you need to clutch, but you can shift without stopping. This is like a typical car manual transmission. Note that on some newer tractors you can operate the clutch with the peddal, or with a button on the shift lever. The button makes clutching and shifting really easy. You just hold the button down, shift, then release the button. The last is power shift where you can shift gears with no clutching, typically with a push button. The "up" button shifts up one gear at a time, and the "down" does the opposite. This is really nice if you have to do a lot of shifting.

3) Speed ranges can also be manual unsynchronized, manual synchronized, or power shift. It's all the same as above, but only when you need to change ranges, and that will depend on how many gears you have, and how you are running the tractor. The more gears you have the more speed range you have before you need to change range. So try using the tractor as you expect to see if you can mostly operate in a single range, or if you need to be changing range all the time. The more frequently you will change range, the fancier mechanism you will want. The ultimate is full power shift for both ranges and gears. You just keep pressing the button and the tractor will shift gears and ranges as needed.

I hope this helps with what questions to ask, what's possible, and what to expect. I found surprises in a number of tractors that I considered.
 
   / HST or 12 speed SHUTTLE SHIFT #12  
I am blessed to own a shuttle shift and while I have never owned a HST, I am glad I don't have to listen to the whine of a hydraulic pump all the time!
When one breaks down, which is going to be easier to fix? Cheaper to fix? Cheaper to maintain? Hydraulic fluid isn't getting any cheaper and having to change it "how often?" has to add to the ownership cost.
David from jax
 
   / HST or 12 speed SHUTTLE SHIFT
  • Thread Starter
#13  
I am blessed to own a shuttle shift and while I have never owned a HST, I am glad I don't have to listen to the whine of a hydraulic pump all the time!
When one breaks down, which is going to be easier to fix? Cheaper to fix? Cheaper to maintain? Hydraulic fluid isn't getting any cheaper and having to change it "how often?" has to add to the ownership cost.
David from jax
Thanks for all of the responses. Loader work only accounts for about 10% of the work this tractor will do. My most interest is crawling around on these hills with a bush hog and durability since this most likely only new and last tractor I'll buy. At 72 years old and I will only use this tractor about 100 hrs a year. I still think about how enjoyable it is crawling around on these hills with the Kubota RTV X900. It took me awhile to get past the REGEN but since I always have run my tractors at 2000 RPMs that may not be an issue. That new YM Yanmar is interesting but I understand it is a bit pricey. Wanting 35 to 40 HP. I'll be taking all these suggestions seriously. Also I will still have another tractor for a backup and other uses.
 
   / HST or 12 speed SHUTTLE SHIFT #14  
Thanks for all of the responses. Loader work only accounts for about 10% of the work this tractor will do. My most interest is crawling around on these hills with a bush hog and durability since this most likely only new and last tractor I'll buy. At 72 years old and I will only use this tractor about 100 hrs a year. I still think about how enjoyable it is crawling around on these hills with the Kubota RTV X900. It took me awhile to get past the REGEN but since I always have run my tractors at 2000 RPMs that may not be an issue. That new YM Yanmar is interesting but I understand it is a bit pricey. Wanting 35 to 40 HP. I'll be taking all these suggestions seriously. Also I will still have another tractor for a backup and other uses.
What about a comparison of efficiency of HST vs PS (PowerShift)? I have always heard that HST is only about 60% to 70% efficient. To get the same amount of power to the ground or to the PTO, would you need a 30% more powerful engine in a HST tractor compared to a PS?
 
   / HST or 12 speed SHUTTLE SHIFT #15  
What about a comparison of efficiency of HST vs PS (PowerShift)? I have always heard that HST is only about 60% to 70% efficient. To get the same amount of power to the ground or to the PTO, would you need a 30% more powerful engine in a HST tractor compared to a PS?
I think that the devil is in the details.

The actual HST efficiency depends heavily on how the HST is set up, and whether the pump or motor or both are variable volume pumps, and the actual design. That said hydraulic pump/motor efficiency is in the 80-90% range, but that means overall the efficiency would be in the range of 64-81%.

What often gets lost in the efficiency discussion is whether tractor engine is at its maximum efficiency point, when the tractor is at the desired ground speed. Then there is the time=money for the operator: will the operator get more accomplished in a day with an HST or PS, for that given task.

It's not a simple call in my book, and I think a great deal depends on the work being asked of the tractor.

All the best,

Peter
 
   / HST or 12 speed SHUTTLE SHIFT
  • Thread Starter
#16  
What about a comparison of efficiency of HST vs PS (PowerShift)? I have always heard that HST is only about 60% to 70% efficient. To get the same amount of power to the ground or to the PTO, would you need a 30% more powerful engine in a HST tractor compared to a PS?
Good point I don't want a 50HP tractor to get 35HP in power. The size of the 50 to 55 HP tractors is to large for my needs.
 
   / HST or 12 speed SHUTTLE SHIFT #17  
For running your Bush Hog for 100 hours per year and being 72 years old you will never wear out a good HST.
My newest tractor is HST and I love it.
I’m sure some of the other choices are also very nice and you probably wouldn’t be able to wear those out either.
 
   / HST or 12 speed SHUTTLE SHIFT #18  
Someday all CUTs will have transmissions this good (i-HMT). The power of a shuttle, the convenience of a hydro. Plus, it can be accessed without splitting the tractor!

 
   / HST or 12 speed SHUTTLE SHIFT #19  
I think that the devil is in the details.

The actual HST efficiency depends heavily on how the HST is set up, and whether the pump or motor or both are variable volume pumps, and the actual design. That said hydraulic pump/motor efficiency is in the 80-90% range, but that means overall the efficiency would be in the range of 64-81%.

What often gets lost in the efficiency discussion is whether tractor engine is at its maximum efficiency point, when the tractor is at the desired ground speed. Then there is the time=money for the operator: will the operator get more accomplished in a day with an HST or PS, for that given task.

It's not a simple call in my book, and I think a great deal depends on the work being asked of the tractor.

All the best,

Peter
I agree with all this, but think it only matters if your needs include max pulling power for ground engaging implements, and I think that only occurs in the large row crop tractor realm. It's fundamentally why those large tractors are power shift or IVT. If you are pulling a plow through the ground all day at max pulling power, then it matters. Otherwise I think the control and maneuverability of an HST greatly outweighs the small loss of efficiency.
 
   / HST or 12 speed SHUTTLE SHIFT #20  
For running your Bush Hog for 100 hours per year and being 72 years old you will never wear out a good HST.
My newest tractor is HST and I love it.
I’m sure some of the other choices are also very nice and you probably wouldn’t be able to wear those out either.
Agreed. In my experience HST reliability is the last thing you need to worry about.
 

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