I just bought a 440 Steiner. Very nice machine, but....

[masseygreg]

I bought a beautifully clean and well maintained Steiner 440 Kubota 25hp diesel. I realize the 440 is the ******* child of the Steiner machines. My big problem is that the machine is a bit twitchy on a slope. Apparently the mower takes weight off the front axle. Ventrac has a built in weight transfer mechanism but Steiner skipped this feature and offered a optional add on kit which is not available any more. Does anyone have ideas how I can get weight on the front axle to regain steering control? I'm considering loading the tires? Help please!

 

[5030]

Front wheel weights maybe?

 

[masseygreg]

Front wheel weights maybe?

I thought that, but can't find any. Also thinking loading the tires?

 

[oldnslo]

Is it losing weight because pushing mower lifts the front similar to how a loader lifts front of the tractor? If yes that would require some linkage from deck lift to rear axle to transfer that push behind the pivot point.

Loaded tires would help along with wheel weights if you can find some that fit.

Nice clean looking machine

 

[masseygreg]

Is it losing weight because pushing mower lifts the front similar to how a loader lifts front of the tractor? If yes that would require some linkage from deck lift to rear axle to transfer that push behind the pivot point.

Loaded tires would help along with wheel weights if you can find some that fit.

Nice clean looking machine

I can't get my head around the fact that the mower takes weight off the front axle because the mower operates in the float position. The weight transfer solution is to add springs to lift around 125# of the mower weight and put it on the tractor. I am considering weighting the front axle but I hate the idea of adding weight to a mowing machine unnecessarily. I hope someone here has dealt with this before.

 

[oldnslo]

In the pictures it looks like mower lift pivot point is in front of and above the front axle. While in float and driving forward resistance to mower moving makes the front of tractor rise and want to raise and climb over the deck.

Simple solution sounds like filling tires or adding 125# weight.

More complex solution is designing and building the spring suspension system.

 

[Cycledude]

Sorry you got stuck with such a lousy machine maybe try putting it up for sale and see if someone else might be interested in buying it.

 

[Jrasband]

You can make a bracket to hang barbell weights on the front wheels, also fill your tires with fluid.

Check out wheel weights below to see what I mean. They will not bolt to your hubs but will show you what I mean.

Wheel Accessories - Earth Tools

 

[MowMN]

Do you have the mower in float when on the hillsides? One relatively simple solutions is to take it out of float and raise the deck just a bit. Doesn’t take much as, in doing so, weight will transfer off of the mower deck and onto the front axle.

 

[masseygreg]

Do you have the mower in float when on the hillsides? One relatively simple solutions is to take it out of float and raise the deck just a bit. Doesn’t take much as, in doing so, weight will transfer off of the mower deck and onto the front axle.

 

[masseygreg]

That results in uneven cutting,and when you hit undulations it results in all of the weight coming off of the front tires. In fact there is a warning on the machine about never mowing without floating the deck.

 

[masseygreg]

My strategy is to use the 430 type weight transfer system. I'll need to fabricate upper mounts , but they are available and much simpler than the discontinued 440 system. I'll let you know when I get it done. Thanks for all your ideas.

 

[sandman2234]

I think the 525 used a hydraulic system to offset the weight. Never quite understood it, but it must have worked because I never had any issues like what you're having.
What I can't understand is how a weight in front of an articulated machine can take weight off the front axle. With the hydraulic lift being attached to the front half, how does it do that?
Mine came with a rear weight bar with weights, so the rear end always had plenty of weight, which could be transferred to the front axle via the hydraulic set-up.
Yeah, I am no help at all with this issue!
David from jax

 

[oldnslo]

I think the 525 used a hydraulic system to offset the weight. Never quite understood it, but it must have worked because I never had any issues like what you're having.

Best guess is there was a valve like a pressure reducing valve keeping a constant pressure on the lift side of the cylinder supporting some of the weight.

What I can't understand is how a weight in front of an articulated machine can take weight off the front axle. With the hydraulic lift being attached to the front half, how does it do that?

Same geometry that causes front of tractors to lift when front loader is in float.

Mine came with a rear weight bar with weights, so the rear end always had plenty of weight, which could be transferred to the front axle via the hydraulic set-up.
Yeah, I am no help at all with this issue!
David from jax

 

[masseygreg]

I think the 525 used a hydraulic system to offset the weight. Never quite understood it, but it must have worked because I never had any issues like what you're having.
What I can't understand is how a weight in front of an articulated machine can take weight off the front axle. With the hydraulic lift being attached to the front half, how does it do that?
Mine came with a rear weight bar with weights, so the rear end always had plenty of weight, which could be transferred to the front axle via the hydraulic set-up.
Yeah, I am no help at all with this issue!
David from jax

Yes, I also don't understand the physics of it. The mower in float should be a neutral balance. But the front end pushes and the machine dog tracks or crab walks on a side hill. Impossible to maintain a straight line while mowing. In light of the fact that I bought the machine to mow a slope I need to find a solution.

 

[MowMN]

Yes, I also don't understand the physics of it. The mower in float should be a neutral balance. But the front end pushes and the machine dog tracks or crab walks on a side hill. Impossible to maintain a straight line while mowing. In light of the fact that I bought the machine to mow a slope I need to find a solution.

The weight transfer system on the Ventrac/Steiner provides a small amount of lift to the front implement when it is float. This accomplishes two things. 1) it reduces the ground force of the implement making it easier to move which is especially noticeable on hillsides. 2) it transfers the force from slightly lifting the implement onto the front axle which provides improved ground contact and steering/control to the front end. Similar to loading your tires or using wheel weights but in this case using the weight of the implement to accomplish the same thing.

 

[MowMN]

My strategy is to use the 430 type weight transfer system. I'll need to fabricate upper mounts , but they are available and much simpler than the discontinued 440 system. I'll let you know when I get it done. Thanks for all your ideas.

Agreed. That’s going to be a much simpler and significantly cheaper solution. Post some pics once you finish with the fabrication. I think you will notice a substantial improvement in the hillside performance once you make the modifications - those decks are great but they are heavy.

 

[oldnslo]

Does anyone have a hydraulic schematic for the 450 with the hydraulic traction assist - weight transfer system . In watching the video I wonder if they are simply putting a little back pressure on tank line since tank is common to work ports in float position.

 

[masseygreg]

So, I bought the weight transfer for a 430 model. The brackets when switched to the opposite side and redrilled fit fairly good. If the sheet metal it's attached to doesn't decide to collapse we'll be just fine. It also solved my side hill traction issues.

 

[Logorhea]

I was the first owner in Pennsylvania, a 1977 (can't remember the model number.) My 39th is a 450. I can email you copies of the 440 Kubota Operator's and Parts Manuals from 2012 if you want, but we never owned one. I also have pdfs of lots of attachments. Mowing pasture for sheep on 150 acres of PA western foothills, I learned to trade gas-engine ones before 1000 hours (I blew up 2). The most hours I racked up on a diesel 430 was about 1500. Trading them in before major engine or hydrostat repairs usually returned about 60% of their original cost. And I sold some to people who watched me mow cemeteries, dig sewage systems and move logs besides mowing lawns.