Gravel Driveway using Grid products to reduce washout

[jhendric]

Folks, I'm getting a bit tired of the continuous regrading of my gravel road. I'm wondering if anyone has experience using a product like this: How to Stabilize a Steep Gravel Driveway - TRUEGRID Pavers is this legit or snake oil?

 

[BlueKnife]

Definitely wouldn't work for heavy truck traffic or if you were pushing snow off of it very often. It also is not going to prevent potholes from forming, and if they do, it will make them more difficult to repair.

 

[M59]

Folks, I'm getting a bit tired of the continuous regrading of my gravel road. I'm wondering if anyone has experience using a product like this: How to Stabilize a Steep Gravel Driveway - TRUEGRID Pavers is this legit or snake oil?

So many questions, I have, and so few answers.
1 Pictures on web site site are new installation. What does it look like after one year, two year, 5 years, etc?
2 What is the base these snap together plastic things get placed onto and what is cost to build that base?
3 I would expect any dirt road built using these plastic sheets to show a ridge in the middle of the driveway due to traffic. How do you fix or prevent the ridge?
4 What is final cost ( product + installation ) for whatever amount of driveway you have and how does this compare to other solutions such as concrete or paying someone to maintain driveway?
5 What happens when someone spins their tires on this material? Will it break the grid or pull up sections?
6 What happens when it rains heavy and water runs off the grid edge and undermines the edge?

Bottom line - Looks like snake oil to me UNTIL proven otherwise.

 

[Blue Mule]

Are you having issues because your driveway is at an incline? Or are these problems with a relatively level/flat driveway?

My driveway is 500 feet or slightly more. I installed it 8 years ago. Laid heavy duty fabric down the entire length of it, then covered with #2 crushed stone, worked that in real good, then covered with #57 crushed stone, worked that in, then topped it off with "dense grade" gravel. The road has held up amazingly well with zero pot holes so far. The only part I have trouble with is the one 50' section that climbs a roughly 10% grade. That small section has given me some trouble. What helped the most was digging storm water runoff ditches 8" deep on both sides along that hill. That helped a LOT. But in heavy torrential storms it'll still wash out on that hill somewhat. It's just a war that's hard to win.

 

[MotorSeven]

"
The installation process is also quick and easy, and is also one of the best options for building a gravel driveway on a hill. First, the desired paving area is excavated to a depth of about 12 inches and a piece of fabric is laid at the bottom to prevent gravel migration. Then, gravel is poured in to fill the pit and then it is easily compacted with a heavy roller or ordinary vehicle..

Next, the TRUEGRID pavers are easily snapped together like LEGO® blocks and laid over the top, with more gravel being poured over them and pressed into their surface. Once this is complete, vehicles can begin driving over the driveway to compact the pavers."

No way I would dig up my 1/3rd of a mile driveway to do this. It's already compacted from 13 years of driving on it. Just an observation, but on a steep incline, would the gravel not get partially scraped out of the panels revealing the plastic matrix?

 

[Topzide]

As another way to deal with water on a grade: find some used straight guard rail, lay this into the gravel at an angle across the face of grade. This will help channel the water off and into the drainage ditches on each side. You could stake them down through the bolt holes, although I don't think that would be necessary.
Best part is, being on an angle, you can plow over them. Just an idea to try if you like.

 

[M59]

Looking at this another way. What is the cost for a 4 inch thick concrete slab at 9 feet wide based on concrete material only.

If your going to excavate 12 inches to build a base for the plastic grid, why not excavate 8 inches and put in 4 inch gravel base and then add 4 inch wire reinforced concrete?

To build the plastic grid surface requires 12 inch deep stone base at 9 wide by 3 running feet of driveway is one cubic yard of stone, at a delivered cost of $40 ( approx) and add the plastic grid which is either $2.89 of $4.38 per square foot according to their web site. Larger quantities are quoted.

Presume concrete price is $150 a yard. A 4 inch by 9 foot wide by 9 running feet slab of concrete is a cubic yard, so $150 divided by 81 square feet yields a price per square foot of $1.85 for material.

The concrete will require a 4 inch base at approx cost of $0.50 per square foot

Sum of concrete base plus concrete slab per square foot is $2.15 or less than either one of the grid costs for grid only.

I've not included labor or machine time cost for either since presumed roughly equal so a wash.

Am I missing anything?

 

[MotorSeven]

Concrete here is now just under $190yd.....before Covid it was $140 ish. Anytime I see a new concrete driveway I get concrete envy. But at approx 1500 running feet, it ain't happening, so gravel it is.

 

[BlueKnife]

I've not included labor or machine time cost for either since presumed roughly equal so a wash.

Am I missing anything?

Probably missing the fact that concrete is going to cost him at least $7-10/sq. ft. Unless he's a concrete contractor (and given the question he's asking, it's a fair bet that he isn't) it's going to cost him far more to have concrete poured than it would to put down this plastic grid. I'm not saying the plastic is a good idea (I don't think that it is) but it's definitely much cheaper than concrete.

 

[paulsharvey]

So, first, Why do you keep regrading the driveway?
Is it settling? This grid isn't going to solve a subgrade issue.
Are you the type that regrades cause you see grass growing? This isn't going to solve that, and if you care that much, look at chip seal, asphalt, or concrete.
Is it erosion? This might help some, but its not likely cost effective. Try to solve the source of the erosion first. If it can't be addressed with ditches, crown, ect, maybe consider the grid or asphalt/chip seal/micropave/concrete
Is your existing "gravel" drive a washed rock or river rock drive, and the material keeps moving? This would likely help, but I would consider a roadbase type material first.

With gravel/rock/stabalized drives, there are a couple keys.
1) drainage
2) material, not a washed rock or river rock, need a road base type material
3) compaction, the subgrade should have been compacted. It's too late for that, and if the base is rutting/sinking, consider just adding roadbase once every few years.
4) expectations/appareances; grass in the center doesn't affect function.
5) once it's placed/compacted, quit grading it unless it really needs it. Every time you grade it, you loose it up, you let moisture out, and you accelerate pulling fines out, and segregate your base material

 

[paulsharvey]

First, we need details. Length, width, terrian/topography, expectations, and budget. Pictures help some, but grade, drainage, ect don't always show well.

If this is a long drive, say, 500lf plus, there are worse options than just adding 36 tons of rock every 3 or 5 years.

 

[EddieWalker]

The most common reason for a gravel driveway to fail is that it's not thick enough. Road base rock has to be a mixture of rock in different sized with jagged edges to include fines. When packed together, it becomes solid. At a bare minimum, it needs to be 4 inches thick. In a lot of areas, it needs to be a lot thicker. If it's not thick enough, it will not lock together, and it will constantly loose material.

Second reason for failure is constantly grading it. Once done, it should never be graded again. If a pothole develops, address the pothole. Grading it removes fines, breaks up the rock and allows the fines to wash away.

The only solution for a failing gravel driveway is adding enough material to make it thick enough to lock together.

 

[paulsharvey]

Even in your link, they mention Gravel is Loose. Thats why gravel is not a good driveway material. The name of roadbase material varies around the country. Down here, we use Limerock roadbase, Kentucky it's called DGA, other places it's called crusher run, or one of Many other names; but basically it runs from powder upto 1.5-3" rocks, and 6" of it on top of a compacted, well drained subgrade, is what support most county roads around the country. Heavy truck traffic or busy roads (well over 1000 trips per day), often increase this to 10", placed in two lifts.

Once your base and drainage are on point, double application chip seal is a fairly affordable, fairly long lasting, repairable, resurfacable, sealed, driving coarse. It's not equal to 1.5" of asphalt, but it doesn't cost near as much, IF you have a contractor locally who still does chip seal. Micro pave is similar, but is typically more money, and generally used over existing asphalt or chip seal. Going even cheaper, prime and sand (heavily sand, or use screenings) will also help.

These geo blocks, they do have their place, but to a large degree, they shin at a pervious parking surface, that doesn't trigger drainage retention and/or permitting.

 

[EddieWalker]

I forgot to mention drainage. A lot of driveways that fail were never built up properly before the gravel was installed. To cut corners, or speed things up, some people rely on fabric to hold the rock in place, but this isn't a good, long-term solution. The only way to make sure the gravel isn't washed away is to have the road up higher than the water when it rains. Wide ditches are the best way to move water. The wider the better. Slow moving water is your ultimate goal with ditches. Usually this means bringing in a lot of dirt and compacting it. The cost of the dirt isn't the issue, it's the time it takes to do this that leads to it not happening. Just look at every road built by a County, City, or the State. They always build up the road so it's higher than the ditches on either side. It's very simple and effective.

 

[2manyrocks]

Grading so that water runs off the driveway surface is extremely important when dealing with a grade. If the water runs down the driveway surface instead of running into a ditch, it's going to washout. If you get a really hard rain ("gully washer"), it can wash regardless.

 

[paulsharvey]

The old time roads, step one was to cut the ditches, and roll that excess material up to create the road bed, compact, often mix with a rock or clay to stabalize the sandy material, then add more rock and/or sandy ballfield clay. Thats all assuming it's not a fat, expansive clay, or muck type material. This allows by default, your roadbase material to be higher than the invert of your ditch/swale.

Clean, washed gravel, is really only used to back fill wet areas, where you can't get compaction, or for around perf drainage pipe, or below storm structures, in wet areas.

 

[paulsharvey]

As I try to point out in each of these Many threads on gravel/rock/dirt driveways; I don't work in areas with freezing soils, so I know what I'm talking about, in my area, but what i say may be wrong in areas with frozen ground.

 

[camshawn]

I regularly walked our formality gravel driveway and would make shallow groves with my boot heel (or a shovel point) at an angle downhill to the outside before a rain storm. If we are getting the “Pineapple Express”, I go over the hill several times during The storm to make sure that water is draining off to the edges and not running strait down hill. The little troughs get silted in by the fines washing out. I keep the troughs clear and throw the fines back uphill. This has been the a very effective way to maintain our hill section. Last spring we put asphalt milling down and adjusted some grade. After lots of water and compaction it has set up quite well and there has not been the water erosion we used to get. Mostly the grade change at the top directed a lot of water away before the steep part of the hill.

 

[jyoutz]

Research rolling dips. This is the drainage answer for dirt or gravel roads.

 

[Fixastuff]

Research rolling dips. This is the drainage answer for dirt or gravel roads.

Yes. As someone who has ridden trails for a long time and made some miles of them on my own. You know you’re riding and older trail if it has water bars. The new trails are designed with smooth rolling dips, the trail holds up better and I think it’s more enjoyable also.

Unfortunately with driveways you don’t always have freedom to do the dips and don’t forget straight down is less distance and less gravel