Real estate General topic

[ultrarunner]

25 ft isn’t a “fire break”, its
A “spark gap”.

I grew up “in town”, cordoned blocks of 3/4 or 1 acre, block after block after block. It allowed a reasonable 200 feet on-center spacing of houses, so more than 100 feet between nearest walls. Didn’t seem unreasonable, it was still relatively “high density”.

Something to see when a fire jumps over a 8 lane freeway plus median and shoulders…

 

[ultrarunner]

The home across the canyon from me is no more.

Flames lit up the sky at 2am and 7 fire trucks on scene… I heard the sound of saws working.

Just a shell of walls no roof or contents left.

The only differences is dead calm as far as wind and we have had some rain not long ago.

 

[WinterDeere]

The home across the canyon from me is no more.

Stay safe, man! Hope you got some sprinklers and garden hose.

 

[arto98607]

When I got roof quotes about 2 years ago, there wasn’t much difference between shingles and a screw down metal roof. Standing seam different situation.

Like others said, it depends on the type of metal roofing.

For sure this did cost a lot more than asphalt shingles, but that was 20 years ago and it still looks like new!

 

[paulsharvey]

I like Rib type metal roofs, But

Mom had her low slope roof, previously tar and rock, redone about 7 years ago. She kept having issues, and had the roofer back maybe 8 times, before he stopped answering. Now, she didn't pay an uncle or cousin, or anything, professional contractor. I kinda left it in her hands, but finally I had to take a look. Many of the screws had backed out, or were kinda loose. Her roof deck is old 5/4×6 boards, and and anywhere the screws landed between boards, or within a 1/4" of the board joint, they backed out.

She did threaten to get an attorney, but lawyer told her, a threatening letter will cost $800, and yiu likely will get no results. So, she had a 2nd roofer come in and fix it all.

 

[paulsharvey]

But, to circle back around a bit, I do think, atleast around me, a well done metal roof does add value to an existing home. So, if you are already looking at needing to reroof, and metal is a $1500 more than shingles, you might get $5,000 more on resale?

 

[ning]

But, to circle back around a bit, I do think, atleast around me, a well done metal roof does add value to an existing home. So, if you are already looking at needing to reroof, and metal is a $1500 more than shingles, you might get $5,000 more on resale?

Do you think it really adds more than its cost to the resale? Is that $5000 more if you sold it today, or in 20 years?
I'm pondering this now, because I've been semi in the market for a new roof for 6+ years - our comp roof is positively aged (not in a "aged like fine wine" way, either) and I've figured metal was likely the best roof - but I also don't want to increase the already ridiculously high insurance cost, and given that I'm hoping we won't be here long, the more immediate resale value question is pretty important.

I suspect that the cost of a metal roof is significantly higher than for a good comp one. Not 10%, probably closer to 50%. Very few roofers in my area do them, either, so that probably drives part of the price differential.

My guess is that a good metal roof will outlast a comp roof, but that doesn't matter much in the near-term resale value. Saying a metal roof has better fire characteristics than a comp roof does, of course, but I'm not sure how much of a boost in the emotional "it's so much safer" to a buyer will be offset by higher insurance costs, since they don't seem to care that much about what the roof is, as long as it's recent.

It would be interesting to find a scientific study about the monetary advantages, but I doubt that's been done at all let alone recently when insurance costs have gone through the roof.

 

[paulsharvey]

Do you think it really adds more than its cost to the resale? Is that $5000 more if you sold it today, or in 20 years?
I'm pondering this now, because I've been semi in the market for a new roof for 6+ years - our comp roof is positively aged (not in a "aged like fine wine" way, either) and I've figured metal was likely the best roof - but I also don't want to increase the already ridiculously high insurance cost, and given that I'm hoping we won't be here long, the more immediate resale value question is pretty important.

I suspect that the cost of a metal roof is significantly higher than for a good comp one. Not 10%, probably closer to 50%. Very few roofers in my area do them, either, so that probably drives part of the price differential.

My guess is that a good metal roof will outlast a comp roof, but that doesn't matter much in the near-term resale value. Saying a metal roof has better fire characteristics than a comp roof does, of course, but I'm not sure how much of a boost in the emotional "it's so much safer" to a buyer will be offset by higher insurance costs, since they don't seem to care that much about what the roof is, as long as it's recent.

It would be interesting to find a scientific study about the monetary advantages, but I doubt that's been done at all let alone recently when insurance costs have gone through the roof.

So, for me, doing it all my self, 1440 sq ft 3/2, my cost to do shingles was right at $1500, including some single use tools (nail gun, roofing bull trowel, razor blades), metal should have been about $2200, including all the trim and screws and all, but not including firring strips, or any additional rigid foam insulation. Firring strips, some people do 1x4, I would have done 2x4, and that's not a hard cost to figure out, but it does add some additional thinking on trim at valleys and drip edge; straight screw down is very fast, and easy; On a simple roof. You start getting multiple pitches, many valleys, ecr, the trim adds up fast.

To have it installed, shingles were around $8000, and metal was around $12,000.

Added value, metal may not equal money all the time. I have heard many people look at galvilum finish as kinda low end, but its a fantastic product, and doesn't stain or fade as bad as colored metals. So, I dont really know.

 

[paulsharvey]

So, I'm Not saying the difference between $8000 and $12,000 you would make up, but the difference between $1500 and $2500, I have no doubt you would make back, locally.

 

[ning]

So, I'm Not saying the difference between $8000 and $12,000 you would make up, but the difference between $1500 and $2500, I have no doubt you would make back, locally.

Right, agreed.
I'm DIY in a lot of things, but I'm leaving roofing to the pros on this job (bigger house, too - ~2200 sq ft outline, two story, plus attached 2+ car garage, plus detached 3 car garage/shop, all to be done "at once"). Whoever does it, it's going to hit the wallet hard...

 

[paulsharvey]

That said, it is possible an extra $10k on metal vs shingles, might pay off? that would be a question of local market folks.

 

[ning]

That said, it is possible an extra $10k on metal vs shingles, might pay off? that would be a question of local market folks.

My guess is that more people are doing metal roofs now than when I last got a couple bids (for comp - nobody would bid for metal in my area) what like 5-7 years ago. Hopefully I can get bids for both, then I'll evaluate.

If it's a difference of $10k (I'm expecting a total bill of 40-50k -- thus my reticence to do it yet as I don't have leaky roofs!), I'd probably go for it for the resale + fire. We don't have any houses nearby so I doubt that through-the-window ignition is likely; with hardie plank (cement composite) siding and reasonably fire-wise landscaping I expect our roof to be the biggest danger.

Metal roofs may also be cooler in the summer which could be an advantage as well; my house is in the sun most of the day (a hill to the west ruins the sunset but cuts the sun mercifully a bit early) and it does bake in the attic, though that's been mitigated in the last few years since I put in a powered gable vent. That vent is pretty low power but reducing attic temps would be nice regardless.

 

[WinterDeere]

That said, it is possible an extra $10k on metal vs shingles, might pay off? that would be a question of local market folks.

Timing is everything. If new, I'm not sure how much metal will gain you in sale price, versus asphalt. Likely never enough to have made the extra cost worth it.

But if done 20+ years prior to sale, the metal roof will still look new at time of sale, whereas the asphalt will be looking tired and near end of life. That might make a difference in sale price.

 

[ultrarunner]

About 24 years ago the local public school reroofed with standing metal seam.

Last year it was all removed and comp installed…

The metal roof took most of the summer…

The comp roof about a week.

 

[arto98607]

Why did they replace the metal roofing after 24 years?

The one we have is made of aluminum and has a "Lifetime Limited Warranty", as well as "120 mph wind warranty".
I case the property changes ownership, the warranty becomes 40 years from installation to the new owner.

So far in 20 years we have had 60 mph wind and hate to even think what 120 mph would do to the nearby Douglas Fir forests...

 

[ultrarunner]

No idea but it was not an easy install as the school building is curved with a large pitched raised portion like a spine…

Easier to take a picture than describe.

Maybe the original thought was fire resistance of metal?

I remember 30 days of rain in Olympia and then the bomb cyclone hit making roads impassable and I lost several very large fir trees… all missed the house.

Never looked at trees the same after that!

 

[2manyrocks]

Can be really difficult to get a metal roof to seal when the roof structure is complicated. There's a local elementary school that has a rounded quonset style roof over the gym that's roofed with a rubber membrane. It's not really a candidate for any other kind of roofing material.

The other consideration is most roofing crews these days can install shingles, but many of them in my area don't seem proficient at installing metal.

 

[paulsharvey]

I dont understand the drive to make roofs more complicated than they need to be. We don't need multiple roof pitches, fake dormers, added high pitch gable over the entry, and all that. You add a lot of cost, it doesn't look good (IMO), you add additional trouble areas, and it greatly increases the cost to reroof.

Sure, a simple hip or gable might be boring, but roofs aren't meant to be exciting. Want to "class" it up a bit, metal shingles that imitate clay tiles look good.

I'm not even saying houses should all be a simple rectangle, but when you randomly add faux dormers, and change the pitch for no functional reason...

I do get snow load affects pitch needs, but for windload, a relatively moderate pitch, like a 4/12 does what you need it to do. Yet, you see many new homes with an 8/12... even 12/12... in Florida

 

[paulsharvey]

Heck, some company's advertise high pitch roofs. Thats added sq ft of material, added wind loads, added labor, and often looks ridiculous

 

[WinterDeere]

I dont understand the drive to make roofs more complicated than they need to be. We don't need multiple roof pitches, fake dormers, added high pitch gable over the entry, and all that. You add a lot of cost, it doesn't look good (IMO), you add additional trouble areas, and it greatly increases the cost to reroof.

The irony is that it never looked good, when it became the latest rage in the 1990's. And now it's gone from looking "not good" to just "dated".

It's rare to see a newer house that really looks good, but when you do, they're almost invariably built as a traditional center hall 2 story colonial with a single roof line. Traditional dormers are fine, in my book, just not the crazy arrangements of 9 different roof lines all depending on adhesives and caulk to keep the structure dry.

And what the hell is up with the clipped ridges that started showing up 20 years ago? Dumbest and most pointless "feature" I've ever seen on a house.



That said, there is one single-story rancher house built up the street from me in the last 10 years, which is just beautiful, even to this old house nut. That is very, very rare.