M7060 8 speed versus 12 speed

[sandman2234]

There are never advantages to having less gears

Until something goes wrong in the tranny and you have to pay to have it rebuilt!
David from jax

 

[EddieWalker]

I'm leaning towards the 12 speed 7060, 8 would "do the job" so I want to get some real world local numbers. Taking my time on this one, hoping to do some dealer visits and also check out MF, CIH/NH and Deere for comparison. Kubota easily won that with the current tractor though.

When I decided to get a bigger tractor, I started out looking at used 100hp tractors that where from 2012 or older. Eventually I gave up on buying used when I realized that I really had no use for a tractor that big, and if I stayed under 75hp, I could get one that didn't require DEF.

I really liked the Kubota 7060, but the Dealer seemed to like it more then I did, and his price didn't seem reasonable compared to what other brands where charging. If I remember correctly, they wanted $62,000 for it, but I looked at several brands and I might have my numbers mixed up.

Once I looked at the Massey Ferguson 4707, I knew that's the tractor I wanted. Dealer wanted $55,000 for it with 7 years, 0% financing in Nov 2021. I said yes, and it was delivered in June of 2022. The price shot up after I ordered mine, and I got a 2022 instead of a 2021, which turned out to be a good thing because they came out with a better AC system in 2022.

I've never owned a Kubota 7060, so my opinion is just based on what I saw when I looked at it at the dealer, and also on a used tractor lot. I liked it a lot, but compared to the Massey, it seemed smaller, lighter, and not as industrial as the Massey. I feel that I got a lot more tractor for less money with the Massey 4707.

The 4707 is the same tractor as the 4708, 4709 and the 4710. They bigger ones have DEF, and REGEN. But what a lot of people do is wait until the Warrantee expires on their 4707 and then they "tune" them up to 100hp or even more. Same engine in all four models, just different smog systems, so it's a very easy tractor to get more power out of without spending the big dollars.

Not that I would do this because there might be some law against it, but I've met people who say they have done it and where impressed by the results.

 

[Rolling Orange]

I have an M7060 ROPS-8 speed. If I had to do it over again, I would have gotten the 12-speed. I was only looking at used tractors so the availability was limited. I find many times that 4th gear in Low range is too low and I'm forced to stop to change to High Range. More low range higher gears would be helpful. Also, I think think the overall max speed in high gear in High Range is faster.

 

[5030]

They are both hydraulic shuttle, and yes, that is a must for me. Zero issues with current 8 speed hydraulic shuttle. I road a lot so the 12 speed appeals there. Creeper is something that I haven't missed really.

I road a lot as well,. it's almost 7 miles to my remote fields on mostly paved 2 lane roads and some gravel as well. One thing about having multiple gears is I never run through all the gears when roading.

In fact, I'll start out in 1st and then jump to 5th and then into high and skip everything in between, no matter what is on the drawbar. Very seldom would I use the entire gearbox and that applies to running hay and bailing as well. I keep the gears on the low side of the gearbox and possibly in the first high range gear if the windrows are light and I vary my forward speed with the engine throttle when bailing because my bailer isn't dependent on ground speed to produce a tight bale. The varible, computer controlled density control does that for me. Same way with netting. When the digital readout tells me I have a full bale chamber and initiates the bet wrap, I drop the engine rpm down to about 1/2 throttle during the wrap cycle because the bailer I own, the net wrapping is dependent on the lineal feet the wrapper puts out, not the PTO input rpm. The bailer I own measures the lineal feet deployed with a micro processor wheel that rides on the net roll itself and al.so informs me when the bet roll is almost used up as well so I don't have to watch for the 'end of roll' marking on the net.

Finally, I can control the density of any bale on the fly if I want to. I don't usually. I keep the density set for a soft core bale so I can spear them easily and the rest of the bale is fiddle string tight.

Why I bought the bailer I have, simply because of all the variables that I can control in the tractor cab via the screen and buttons on the readout.

If I remember correctly, my top road speed is 22 mph at rated rpm. I rarely run the fast as a rule. I much prefer loafing along and rubbernecking. I'm never in a hurry.

 

[LHF2019]

Until something goes wrong in the tranny and you have to pay to have it rebuilt!
David from jax

I see you have a 2555. Did you use that same philosophy when you bought the 25 and avoid the hi/lo or reverser option? Or do you have one of those options knowing it would be more expensive should they need repaired.

 

[sandman2234]

I have an M7060 ROPS-8 speed. If I had to do it over again, I would have gotten the 12-speed. I was only looking at used tractors so the availability was limited. I find many times that 4th gear in Low range is too low and I'm forced to stop to change to High Range. More low range higher gears would be helpful. Also, I think think the overall max speed in high gear in High Range is faster.

My M7040 has the same issue, but with the shuttle shift I can shift between gears in either range very easily so i try to match the work to a range and realize that without shuttle shift i would be doing a lot more shifting. I saved enough on the purchase of it that I can allow some for it's faults.
David from jax

 

[sandman2234]

I see you have a 2555. Did you use that same philosophy when you bought the 25 and avoid the hi/lo or reverser option? Or do you have one of those options knowing it would be more expensive should they need repaired.

I bought the John Deere 2555 for about 1/4 of what they were going for back in 2002 at an auction where employees were the only people allowed to bid. Friend of mine knew I was in the market for a bigger tractor (Ford 1100 at the time) and he bid at the auction for me. He was a penny pincher and several tractors sold for just over $1k and he didn't bid on them. He did buy me a lawnmower, one I had never heard of before that date. A Steiner 525 with extra decks and several implements. It had the Kubota diesel and was quite the mowing machine for my yard. (Cost was $503) There were 4 people wanting batwing mowers, and there were 4 for sale, so everybody got one for a dollar apiece. Yes, 21 or 22 foot Bush Hog batwing mowers in operational condition for ONE DOLLAR!! Anyway, I called him 15 minutes after the auction started to tell him I had more cash and he said the auction was over. Apparently the auction was done in the conference room, because everybody knew the equipment. He said the 2555 didn't sell because the dealership had put in a reserve on it as trade in for the new equipment the company was buying. I asked if it could be bought at that price and he checked, and the next morning I owned it.
That was the last time that company did an employee only auction! I have bought other tractors from them, but at nowhere near the price.
David from jax

 

[Farmer495]

When I decided to get a bigger tractor, I started out looking at used 100hp tractors that where from 2012 or older. Eventually I gave up on buying used when I realized that I really had no use for a tractor that big, and if I stayed under 75hp, I could get one that didn't require DEF.

I really liked the Kubota 7060, but the Dealer seemed to like it more then I did, and his price didn't seem reasonable compared to what other brands where charging. If I remember correctly, they wanted $62,000 for it, but I looked at several brands and I might have my numbers mixed up.

Once I looked at the Massey Ferguson 4707, I knew that's the tractor I wanted. Dealer wanted $55,000 for it with 7 years, 0% financing in Nov 2021. I said yes, and it was delivered in June of 2022. The price shot up after I ordered mine, and I got a 2022 instead of a 2021, which turned out to be a good thing because they came out with a better AC system in 2022.

I've never owned a Kubota 7060, so my opinion is just based on what I saw when I looked at it at the dealer, and also on a used tractor lot. I liked it a lot, but compared to the Massey, it seemed smaller, lighter, and not as industrial as the Massey. I feel that I got a lot more tractor for less money with the Massey 4707.

The 4707 is the same tractor as the 4708, 4709 and the 4710. They bigger ones have DEF, and REGEN. But what a lot of people do is wait until the Warrantee expires on their 4707 and then they "tune" them up to 100hp or even more. Same engine in all four models, just different smog systems, so it's a very easy tractor to get more power out of without spending the big dollars.

Not that I would do this because there might be some law against it, but I've met people who say they have done it and where impressed by the results.

Interesting on price on MF. I see two ratings for the 4707 is 57 PTO HP and 60 PTO HP.

I have a really good Kubota dealer and have had really zero issues with the current orange one. Most, if not all, M7060s on the lot have cast wheels and wide metric radials so usually way nicer rubber than the competition.

 

[Farmer495]

I road a lot as well,. it's almost 7 miles to my remote fields on mostly paved 2 lane roads and some gravel as well. One thing about having multiple gears is I never run through all the gears when roading.

In fact, I'll start out in 1st and then jump to 5th and then into high and skip everything in between, no matter what is on the drawbar. Very seldom would I use the entire gearbox and that applies to running hay and bailing as well. I keep the gears on the low side of the gearbox and possibly in the first high range gear if the windrows are light and I vary my forward speed with the engine throttle when bailing because my bailer isn't dependent on ground speed to produce a tight bale. The varible, computer controlled density control does that for me. Same way with netting. When the digital readout tells me I have a full bale chamber and initiates the bet wrap, I drop the engine rpm down to about 1/2 throttle during the wrap cycle because the bailer I own, the net wrapping is dependent on the lineal feet the wrapper puts out, not the PTO input rpm. The bailer I own measures the lineal feet deployed with a micro processor wheel that rides on the net roll itself and al.so informs me when the bet roll is almost used up as well so I don't have to watch for the 'end of roll' marking on the net.

Finally, I can control the density of any bale on the fly if I want to. I don't usually. I keep the density set for a soft core bale so I can spear them easily and the rest of the bale is fiddle string tight.

Why I bought the bailer I have, simply because of all the variables that I can control in the tractor cab via the screen and buttons on the readout.

If I remember correctly, my top road speed is 22 mph at rated rpm. I rarely run the fast as a rule. I much prefer loafing along and rubbernecking. I'm never in a hurry.

I normally start in H1 (5th) and progressively shift 1 2 3 4. I have some grades I do have to downshift on as well, drop a couple gears to keep moving My speed chart says 19 something MPH, but that is at 2600 RPM, and my tach reads 2800 where the needle stops. I use every MPH when I have to. Looks like the 12 speed gives me some closer ratios gearing down from top speed for pulling grade.

Your baler is fancier than mine I generally just bale in L4 and keep it around 460 RPM versus the full 540.

 

[Farmer495]

I have an M7060 ROPS-8 speed. If I had to do it over again, I would have gotten the 12-speed. I was only looking at used tractors so the availability was limited. I find many times that 4th gear in Low range is too low and I'm forced to stop to change to High Range. More low range higher gears would be helpful. Also, I think think the overall max speed in high gear in High Range is faster.

That what I don't want to happen to me, regret not getting the right gearbox. I am planning to buy new so I want to do it once, but I do have a budget. Yes 12 speed is way faster on the road than 8, 6.3 MPH according to the speed charts I have.

 

[Farmer495]

My M7040 has the same issue, but with the shuttle shift I can shift between gears in either range very easily so i try to match the work to a range and realize that without shuttle shift i would be doing a lot more shifting. I saved enough on the purchase of it that I can allow some for it's faults.
David from jax

I'm somewhat lucky I rarely have to change range while working. Only time I wished for a lower gear in high range was hauling two loaded wagons of hay out of a field at the bottom of that a hill that H1 was didn't have enough power to pull it out. L4 worked fine.

 

[5030]

It's fancy for sure and it's only 2 years old. It's a Kubota BV silage special. Really easy to thread net as well, unlike my old traded in New Holland where you had to feed the net through the center and deal with the net knife. This one, you feed the net into a cutout on the right side of the bailer (facing backward) an d leave about a foot hanging and it feeds itself. Does all sorts of neat stuff like I can vary the bale density while it's bailing for instance. I usually just leave it set for a soft center and everything else fiddle string tight. I don't run sileage but that is how it came and my dealer gave me a heck of a deal on it. I always run maximum diameter as well which is 5 foot bales. I can run 5.5 diameter b ales but it's not recommended and belts are expensive, so I don't. Interestingly, it really don't consume a lot of tractor power either. I have 96 pto horses.

 

[5030]

That what I don't want to happen to me, regret not getting the right gearbox. I am planning to buy new so I want to do it once, but I do have a budget. Yes 12 speed is way faster on the road than 8, 6.3 MPH according to the speed charts I have.

Both my M9's top out at 22 mph. Like I said earlier, I rarely go that fast. Like smelling the roses along the way and being nosey too.

 

[Farmer495]

The 12 speed also has a bigger capicity hydraulic pump.

I read a few comments and saw a video claiming the 12 speed had troubles compared to the 8.

Here is the gear comparison, 12 speed "100%" is from the op manual on 16.9-30, 8 speed is the op manual speeds adjusted to be for 16.9-30 from 16.9-28.

Black line is range change.

 

[Farmer495]

Figured I'd update this in case anyone else is in the same situation.

I went with the 12 speed. I've put many hours on it and done all the field work and operations I bought it for. I am happy with the choice. Was about $1500 extra CDN over the 8 speed. Well worth it when combined with the better hyd flow and electric shift 4wd with 4 wheel braking.

For my application I can use low range for all field work (tillage & haying) and have the right gear without a range change. Easy to shift on the move between slow and fast. Good spacing for baling too. While I can mow hay in high range first, most of my fields are too rough and my body and equipment much happier slower.

Highway haulage is geared nice, 1-6 in high range are spaced good with 6th limited in RPM so you cruise at top speed at 1960 RPM at 24.5 MPH rather 2500 in the other gears. Quick shift to 5th gives full power at 2500 RPM around 22 MPH.

The park position prevents driving with parking brake set which is a good feature.

The only thing I don't like about "park" is I don't really like how it "feels" when putting in and out of park on a slope. I make a point not to stop on a slope. My 8-speed with brake pedal lock I do not care where I stop.

 

[EddieWalker]

Thanks for the update!!

 

[Hay Dude]

There are never advantages to having less gears

Especially when baling hay.

 

[Hay Dude]

Figured I'd update this in case anyone else is in the same situation.

I went with the 12 speed. I've put many hours on it and done all the field work and operations I bought it for. I am happy with the choice. Was about $1500 extra CDN over the 8 speed. Well worth it when combined with the better hyd flow and electric shift 4wd with 4 wheel braking.

For my application I can use low range for all field work (tillage & haying) and have the right gear without a range change. Easy to shift on the move between slow and fast. Good spacing for baling too. While I can mow hay in high range first, most of my fields are too rough and my body and equipment much happier slower.

Highway haulage is geared nice, 1-6 in high range are spaced good with 6th limited in RPM so you cruise at top speed at 1960 RPM at 24.5 MPH rather 2500 in the other gears. Quick shift to 5th gives full power at 2500 RPM around 22 MPH.

The park position prevents driving with parking brake set which is a good feature.

The only thing I don't like about "park" is I don't really like how it "feels" when putting in and out of park on a slope. I make a point not to stop on a slope. My 8-speed with brake pedal lock I do not care where I stop.

You’d love a 24 speed “dual speed” Kubota transmission. I thought mine was really cool.

 

[Farmer495]

You’d love a 24 speed “dual speed” Kubota transmission. I thought mine was really cool.

Half gear powershift would be nice at times.

 

[jonsstihl]

not sure if it was mentioned but the 12 speed gets you an e-PTO as well. glad you like it and it works for your uses