Compacting gravel driveway

[paulsharvey]

So, one thing I see people on here often forget, focused on the surface, and drainage; looks at the lay-out of a drive. You want a comfortable width, with the Radius' to pull in and out; generally a 12 ft wide driving surface, 25 ft radius, with a clear area of no less than 16 ft is what people feel comfortable with. Sure, you can absolutely reduce the width to 10 ft (or even 9 ft) to save money, but keep the clear width from drop offs, culverts, ecr 16 ft. Keep any trees a min of 4 ft from the edge of the driving surface; but strive for 8 ft or more. Trees cause problems in several ways; 1-organic material (roots) left under the driving surface, that decay over time; 2-live trees, roots will uplift/crack/heave your surface, allowing water to cause more damage; 3-live trees shade the surface, allowing water to sit on the surface and any cracks much longer, and then when you drive over it, it forces the water to cause more damage by hydralic force.

Drainage- at lease have an idea; maybe you need swales or ditches, you might need cross drains (culverts), but often, if layed out right, you can raise the driving surface, and let water spill off the sides. Springs, hill side seeps, ect require attention. Small drain pipes are a waste if trouble and a maintenance nightmare. French drains and under drains can help When needed, but it's better if possible to avoid the need

Maintenance: fill cracks and pot holes, or erosion as they accure, even if it's not the prettiest, it will save you more expense later

 

[paulsharvey]

Also, the one and done approach can be tempting; but when comparing say $20,000-80,000 for a concrete drive, vs a $4000 rock drive, that you spend another 2
$2000 on every 5 years, it takes a Long time to make that concrete pay for itself.

 

[paulsharvey]

For anyone looking at doing a larger driveway, it's also important to know/understand local materials, terrain, and standard practices. What works in N. FLa might be a disaster in Oregon, or Alberta, or New Queensland. A guy in Tenn might be able to redirect a minor creek to align a driveway, but the same thing would put you under the jail in Cali. Areas near salt water (or tanic acid in a swamp) might eat a galvanized pipe in 5 years, that would work in Nebraska for a life time. For example, I write a Lot on some of these threads, but I admit I know Nothing about freeze Thaw cycles, and how they affect you guys up north.

Some things are consistent; drainage, good subgrade, good compaction, and adequate turning radius, and the ability to get emergency vehicles in/out.

 

[paulsharvey]

If possible, you want to avoid slopes/grades greater than 10%, maybe 15-18%, but that's not always possible; and presents unique challenges.

 

[BackRoad]

Adding to the thread drift ...

I've become a believer in putting geotextile under a drive.

My original 1400' drive does not have it and gravel over time disappears. It seems to slowly merge into the clay subsoil, in spite of having a 12 to 15 inch deep, 3 layer construction (4-6" base, 2-4" mid, 1" down to fines top layer). It was built in the 80's as a primary road for a sub-division, which was never developed.

I've added a ~400 foot extension using geotextile under the base. Then a build-up of mixed size asphalt millings.

It's still relatively new, but no evidence of merging with the clay underneath and no loss of millings or sinking of the driveway down into the clay subsoil.

At $360 per 12' x 350' roll, it was inexpensive - compared to adding more millings in the future.

(Photo while constructing one section of the extension showing the layers - before final grading and compacting.)

 

[joea99]

I would have it delivered no matter how they bring it Not sure if you can tell them to bring it dry? Any way spread it all out the best you can bucket angled back and running in reverse is how i do it, Then wet it all down good and do your compacting. How do you do compacting with your tractor ?

In my limited experience, I just drive over the area many times, each time moving over a bit.

After several trips usually the tire tread marks get pretty much overlapped and it does not look to bad.

Going in reverse floating the FEL bucket, almost flat, also helps smooth it out.

Things do get a little tricky near the edge of the road if there is a drop off.

 

[alexinPA]

We used to use #2 crusher run for the base for all our parking lots and roads we built when is was working.
This was always specified by the engineer. This has fine dust in it from being run through the crusher. Wet it down good with a hose before compaction ! I would be careful with the vibrating roller. I assume it would be a 10 ton.

What's wrong with vibrating roller?

 

[AnotherBueller]

Adding to the thread drift ...

I've become a believer in putting geotextile under a drive.

My original 1400' drive does not have it and gravel over time disappears. It seems to slowly merge into the clay subsoil, in spite of having a 12 to 15 inch deep, 3 layer construction (4-6" base, 2-4" mid, 1" down to fines top layer). It was built in the 80's as a primary road for a sub-division, which was never developed.

I've added a ~400 foot extension using geotextile under the base. Then a build-up of mixed size asphalt millings.

It's still relatively new, but no evidence of merging with the clay underneath and no loss of millings or sinking of the driveway down into the clay subsoil.

At $360 per 12' x 350' roll, it was inexpensive - compared to adding more millings in the future.

(Photo while constructing one section of the extension showing the layers - before final grading and compacting.)View attachment 884983

The only issue with doing it that way is that you have no base under the road. So if the soil under the rock/textile ever gets a little soft it will sink under a load and it will never get any better. Large rock followed by progressively smaller rock will bed in. What happens it that the large rock gets pushed down by traffic and spreads out to the sides. When it gets too low for you, you add more and maybe a smaller size. Eventually your 6" wide tire could end up pressing down on a rock / dirt mix the could be 12' or more wide. So less or no more ruts. Textile on dirt = no base. Short term looks good, long term?
Looks good does not equal what is good,

 

[BackRoad]

Yup...

Used a rock bucket with 2" spacing to separate large milling chunks from the smaller stuff.

Built the drive with a layer of large milling chunks under the finer millings.

The middle photo shows piles of the larger chunks waiting to be spread. (This was done to hold the fabric in place ahead of the remnants of hurricane Beryl passing through). The entire drive got a layer of the large milling pieces. The base is 8 to 10 inches deep in the main section.

Then added the finer 2" and under as the final layer.

It's not going anywhere.

 

[LouNY]

Adding to the thread drift ...

I've become a believer in putting geotextile under a drive.

My original 1400' drive does not have it and gravel over time disappears. It seems to slowly merge into the clay subsoil, in spite of having a 12 to 15 inch deep, 3 layer construction (4-6" base, 2-4" mid, 1" down to fines top layer). It was built in the 80's as a primary road for a sub-division, which was never developed.

I've added a ~400 foot extension using geotextile under the base. Then a build-up of mixed size asphalt millings.

It's still relatively new, but no evidence of merging with the clay underneath and no loss of millings or sinking of the driveway down into the clay subsoil.

At $360 per 12' x 350' roll, it was inexpensive - compared to adding more millings in the future.

(Photo while constructing one section of the extension showing the layers - before final grading and compacting.)View attachment 884983

Seen this several times and places in my area. Even been used in cattle walkways that always turned into muddy muck every spring.
From what I seen over several decades is that when the sub base is clay or hardpan it doesn't matter what type of sub base you put in eventually the sub base disappears and the clay rises.
Many years ago most of the roads in this are had shale sub bases and at times were topped with crushed shale and eventually paved over. What has happened is those roads no longer have any kind of base the shale has decomposed from freeze thaw cycles and road vibrations and is now blue clay.

 

[paulsharvey]

Back to our OP, give us an update once it's done, Maybe some pictures, and what you like/dislike about it.

 

[Yancan]

Apologies in advance if this is an inappropriate post. I welcome constructive criticism if I am hijacking the topic and/or should post under a different section of the forum.

In anticipation of adding gravel to a country driveway in western Washington that has considerable slope, I would like to smooth some of the ridges and potholes. I’m hoping not to hire heavier equipment for this task but my subcompact Yanmar 1610 D with a bucket and box scraper may not be up to the task. I would appreciate commentary from experienced members of the forum regarding the capability of this small workhorse. The existing driveway has a good base of the basalt rock starting with 6 to 8 inch diameter which was built up with 2 to 3 inch riprap then multiple layers of three-quarter inch minus gravel over the years. Part of what I would need to smooth would involve some of the 2-3 inch material which is quite well compacted but is contributing to the ridges and potholes. I know it’s difficult to make recommendations on the basis of a verbal description but I would appreciate guidelines from the group. Thank you!

 

[paulsharvey]

Apologies in advance if this is an inappropriate post. I welcome constructive criticism if I am hijacking the topic and/or should post under a different section of the forum.

In anticipation of adding gravel to a country driveway in western Washington that has considerable slope, I would like to smooth some of the ridges and potholes. I’m hoping not to hire heavier equipment for this task but my subcompact Yanmar 1610 D with a bucket and box scraper may not be up to the task. I would appreciate commentary from experienced members of the forum regarding the capability of this small workhorse. The existing driveway has a good base of the basalt rock starting with 6 to 8 inch diameter which was built up with 2 to 3 inch riprap then multiple layers of three-quarter inch minus gravel over the years. Part of what I would need to smooth would involve some of the 2-3 inch material which is quite well compacted but is contributing to the ridges and potholes. I know it’s difficult to make recommendations on the basis of a verbal description but I would appreciate guidelines from the group. Thank you!

So, for pot holes in your base, 1st, get the water out, then rip the area of the pot hole before adding additional material, and then recompact. You don't want to just pack material in the holes, or it doesn't really form a cohesive unit with the rest of the material. Pictures would always help.

The second part, the ridges, we locally refer to as washboarding; and the only way I know to get rid of it is to cut some of it off and redistribute. If your machine can, you can basically just scratch up the surface with box blade rippers, maybe 1-2" deep, smooth it all back out. Wash board is created by a vehicles suspension bouncing, and once it starts, it basically makes itself worse with each pass in a vehicle, as shocks/struts/springs bounce


You mentioned getting additional "gravel", so, ideally, that would be added to the scarified surface. You don't really want smooth, compact layer, and then place a thin layer on top; that ends up leeding to what we call Scabbing; a thin surface layer, not really bonded, that separates. Being on a steep grade will back that worse, as you either brake going down, or accelerate going up in a vehicle.

 

[texas42]

Been following this thread with interest. First off, the terms used are not interchangeable.
Gravel is unprocessed natural stone - it would be like trying to drive on marbles of different sizes. Crushed gravel is natural gravel that has been processed and larger pieces reduced in size, may have some fines - better than gravel but not much. Crushed Stone is stone that comes from a quarry usually blasted out of a solid state and crushed, processed and sized to meet certain requirements. Crusher Run is crushed stone that varies from a top size of 1 1/2 or 2 inches down to and including fines. Readily compacts especially if watered while being compacted

 

[Yancan]

So, for pot holes in your base, 1st, get the water out, then rip the area of the pot hole before adding additional material, and then recompact. You don't want to just pack material in the holes, or it doesn't really form a cohesive unit with the rest of the material. Pictures would always help.

The second part, the ridges, we locally refer to as washboarding; and the only way I know to get rid of it is to cut some of it off and redistribute. If your machine can, you can basically just scratch up the surface with box blade rippers, maybe 1-2" deep, smooth it all back out. Wash board is created by a vehicles suspension bouncing, and once it starts, it basically makes itself worse with each pass in a vehicle, as shocks/struts/springs bounce


You mentioned getting additional "gravel", so, ideally, that would be added to the scarified surface. You don't really want smooth, compact layer, and then place a thin layer on top; that ends up leeding to what we call Scabbing; a thin surface layer, not really bonded, that separates. Being on a steep grade will back that worse, as you either brake going down, or accelerate going up in a vehicle.

Thanks for your input, paulsharvey.

"Gravel"" was incorrect. Crushed rock, probably 3/4 minus or 5/8 minus has been added over the years after the road bed was established.

Roger that on the pothole treatment. Do you think my 18 hp Yanmar would be up to the task?

The ridges are primarily in the center of the driveway, running parallel… more or less the result of the formation of adjacent ruts. These are not wash boarding or what in eastern Texas we used to call "corduroy road", ridges running in a perpendicular orientation.

I'll try to get some images posted.

 

[paulsharvey]

Thanks for your input, paulsharvey.

"Gravel"" was incorrect. Crushed rock, probably 3/4 minus or 5/8 minus has been added over the years after the road bed was established.

Roger that on the pothole treatment. Do you think my 18 hp Yanmar would be up to the task?

The ridges are primarily in the center of the driveway, running parallel… more or less the result of the formation of adjacent ruts. These are not wash boarding or what in eastern Texas we used to call "corduroy road", ridges running in a perpendicular orientation.

I'll try to get some images posted.

Your machine is fine, if you have a box blade with a couple ripper teeth. I'm Not talking deep ripping, so maybe max of 2", and you can always remove or flip some teeth up if your bogging the machine.

For those parallel lines, I think same thing; just lightly rip the entire cross width of the the drive, running with the travel way. Make sure you don't remove the crown, so take the time to check that you aren't messing it up, and just start ripping a couple days before the new material is coming in. Don't go deep, don't move a lot of material, and take your time. Also, don't obsess over perfection.

 

[paulsharvey]

So the naming conventions get weird; we don't use gravel, crushed stone, or crusher run here; we use limerock roadbase. It is a soft rock that is mined either by blasting, drag line, or plain track hoe, and is very soft for the most part, and runs from powder upto fist sized. There are also granular base materials, almost never used, and the normal #57/83/ect washed rock, clean 'gravel' that is a hard rock that is cracked, and fines washed off, for use in concrete, or as a non-compacting pipe backfill or other specific applications. Although not really available around here, you also have smooth, river rock type gravel, that frankly is suitable for landscaping. Being all marbles, and no fractured sides, not suitable for a roadbase, driveway, or use it concrete.

Crushed concrete is a great material at times; but we don't just use it from every crusher, has to be pre-approved, for the specific reason; 10.of us all stand here and say "crushed concrete", I garrantee we each are talking about a different material; one guy is thinking large construction entrance rock, no fines, no small rock, basically soft ball to base ball; guy 2 is thinking of the stuff that comes out as powder to maybe BB sized, works fantastic for a brick paver base material; I'm here thinking of powder to maybe 1.5" mix if material, that works good under asphalt. As often as not, I think guys mean #57 stone when they say crushed concrete, as all 57 stone around here is basically from recrushed, graded, and washed recycled concrete.

The ideal base material for a standard base is going to be approx equal parts of many grades (sizes), starting from dust, on up, to somewhere around 1, 1.5, inches, upto maybe the size of your fist. Do to it's nature, this type of material requires moisture to compact and achieve max density. Too much water can often lead to pumping while trying to comoact, the base moving up-down-side, and then it needs a chance to dry. This kinda material dumped into a wet hole, or if it gets a heavy down pour of rain before being compacted can be a real mess, but once in place/compacted, resists rutting.

If you are dealing with wet areas, a washed stone/gravel is a good material, as it can be dumped and spread, it will be unaffected by the water, it is essentially compacted by default as soon as it's dumped in, and can be topped with a proper base material. Another (non approved, but works) approach to a wet area, is roadbase, compacted till pumping, and then scarify, add a couple bags of Portland cement, regrade and compact and get the Frick off it, and let the Portland do it's thing.

 

[paulsharvey]

Picture of our standard base material, picture stolen from V.E. Whitehurst, a company of great good old boys.

 

[paulsharvey]

Locally, "gravel" or #57 stone, is almost never a good choice for a driveway or a base material; it is Far more expensive than limerock, doesn't bond together, ect. It does however resist washing unlike limerock.

 

[alexinPA]

Back to our OP, give us an update once it's done, Maybe some pictures, and what you like/dislike about it.

Got 5 loads @15 yards 2A modified (1.5"and smaller) delivered and tailgated. I leveled it with blade and build a crown. Than run again with box blade. Waiting for a drizzle/rain to get guy with vibrating roller to pack it. Stone is too dry right now to compact it.