Just saw my first $80,000 lawnmower

[jjp8182]

I think you partially answered your own question with "...as much as a 75hp tractor" -- without a finish mower. So considering for example a 12ft+ mowing width; a PTO-driven trailed mower can be >$20k (haven't bought one, but have looked at the prices out of curiosity before) ...and any flexing multi-deck mower is likely going to be more costly per foot of cut than a rigid mowing deck.

So depending on the size/configuration of deck included it might actually be the cheaper/easier option if all a person needs to do is mow grass and transport it on a trailer. Also considering a compact/utility tractor pulling a trailed mower tends to take quite a bit of space, and given the difficulty some have backing even a straight-body/framed vehicle (without a trailer) loading/unloading a single machine can be faster (& possibly lighter too) with less skill required.

On the other had it'd seem to require some relatively large open areas to make good use of it even with it being a zero turn, but mowing contracts for large sport complexes, parks & even shopping malls (or entire neighborhoods) could probably use it -- especially if a company has multiple contracts of that sort. Of course being able to potentially halve labor costs (or double productivity) could make for some quick recouping of the expense too....

Though I'd be interested in how a trimming crew would get around to support such a large area in a timely manner (assuming it's also part of the mowing contract). It'd seem like having to wait on them to walk would negate some of the advantages of being able to mow that much acreage that quickly and move a whole crew at once.

 

[bgr]

I have run a Kubota ZG with 54 mower with mulch kit for 10 years commercially. The people who like the Ferris mower with suspension are right. Without suspension, zero turns are very rough rides. If you lower tire pressure to smooth the ride and go too far, the tire grips the ground too much, and you rip out grass with every turn.

The reason for diesels in commercial service, beside knowing it will always start, is torque and blade tip speed = cut quality. My ZG 27 hp gas won't get through grass which is more than three inches over cut height, and it is slowed a lot at 2 inches. My friend's ZD with 21 rated diesel HP does not even slow down with the same mower.

Our grass grows fast and is a challenge for any mulching mower. Mulching takes a lot of torque to produce a clean cut and look good and Diesels work better in these conditions. Also, if you have a crew of yahoos abusing your machines, diesel is not worth the cost as they get broken before the long service life pays off.

 

[TC25Dave]

These mowers can be had in up to a 144-inch width - with a 12.5 mph ground speed, you cover lots of turf in a short period of time, and time is money. Definitely not for your average weekend lawn cutting crowd - compare and contrast to cost of a new pickup truck and it doesn't seem so outrageous.

 

[Indian Territory]

I'd tell them to go pound sand: No Interest 48 Months | Financing Options | Ferris

This is common at tractor dealerships. The financed price is higher.

 

[Fields_mj]

I think you partially answered your own question with "...as much as a 75hp tractor" -- without a finish mower. So considering for example a 12ft+ mowing width; a PTO-driven trailed mower can be >$20k (haven't bought one, but have looked at the prices out of curiosity before) ...and any flexing multi-deck mower is likely going to be more costly per foot of cut than a rigid mowing deck.

So depending on the size/configuration of deck included it might actually be the cheaper/easier option if all a person needs to do is mow grass and transport it on a trailer. Also considering a compact/utility tractor pulling a trailed mower tends to take quite a bit of space, and given the difficulty some have backing even a straight-body/framed vehicle (without a trailer) loading/unloading a single machine can be faster (& possibly lighter too) with less skill required.

On the other had it'd seem to require some relatively large open areas to make good use of it even with it being a zero turn, but mowing contracts for large sport complexes, parks & even shopping malls (or entire neighborhoods) could probably use it -- especially if a company has multiple contracts of that sort. Of course being able to potentially halve labor costs (or double productivity) could make for some quick recouping of the expense too....

Though I'd be interested in how a trimming crew would get around to support such a large area in a timely manner (assuming it's also part of the mowing contract). It'd seem like having to wait on them to walk would negate some of the advantages of being able to mow that much acreage that quickly and move a whole crew at once.

Throughout the Midwest, there are a lot of manufacturing facilities that are either located in the middle of the country, or on the edge of small towns. These facilities often have a substantial amount of open area (grass) that needs to be maintained. A contract for the lawn care for a single facility would likely pay for one of these machines. Of course the contract also includes snow removal in the winter which is a completely separate story.

My dad spent the better part of 3 decades working for a local rural school corporation. During the majority of his career there, one of the things he was responsible for was the grounds for all 5 of the schools in that part of the county. I spent one summer working for him mowing the yard using a Kubota F2100 with a 7' deck. I took care of the middle school and highschool which were the only 2 buildings that were adjacent to each other and was also where all the equipment was stored. I averaged mowing 15 acres per day for 4 days a week, plus a little on Friday. The remainder of friday was spent maintaining the 2 machines. The 3 elementary schools were spread across half the county and sat on slightly smaller tracts of land. Another guy spent the week taking the other Kubota around and mowing those locations. We averaged around 1,200 hrs per machine per year, and replaced them every other year. Back then (early 90s), those machines were pushing $20k each, but I don't EVER remember hearing about one of them breaking down or otherwise having issues. Speaking from experience, it was also a challenge to get one stuck. It wasn't impossible, but it took some effort (or a fair amount of negligence in my case).

Many years later, they bought a larger utility tractor with a batwing to do most of the mowing at the HS and MS, and that cut the mowing time down drastically. They still used the Kubota F series for the elementary schools though just because it was easier to trailer them down the county roads. My understanding is that shortly after my dad retired, they bought some big zero turns. Not sure if they had the bat wings or not, but I'm guessing so. Anyway, from the sounds of it, they had a hard time getting through an entire season with them.

 

[QSYB]

It's an Exmark Lazer Z 37hp diesel. No fancy cab with AC. Looks more or less like any other zero-turn I've seen.

I'm hoping someone who knows more about these things can answer a question for me. Is there ever an actual business case to be made for a mower that costs as much as my 75hp tractor? I just can't make sense of it.

I work for a university that has a hospital attached to it. In all, the grounds likely have ~200 acres that are mowed bi-weekly in the growing season (Bermuda grass, mostly). This includes intramural athletic fields like softball, soccer, and football; numerous greenscapes and greenways and large street right-of-ways and medians. They regularly use machines up to 120" for this work. The way most of it is laid out, a ZTR will probably do the work in half the time a tractor could. This doesn't include a large number of small courtyard type areas that are mowed with much smaller ZTRs or even push mowers, in a few cases.

There is definitely a business case for these units.

 

[tracdoc]

That’s quite the beast. Going forward, the market for them may shrink in the West and Southwest as water conservation efforts are ramped up. States like NV, AZ and even CA are ditching grass in parks in effort to save water.
Henderson, NV just joined the bandwagon:

Henderson converting and removing park grass in effort to control water usage

KSNV NBC Las Vegas covers news, sports, weather and traffic for the Las Vegas, Nevada area including Paradise, Spring Valley, Henderson, North Las Vegas, Indian Springs, Sloan, Searchlight, Laughlin and Nellis AFB.

news3lv.com

 

[bluetim0]

40 years ago a Toro 3 wheeled 6' front deck mower cost over $30K. We used these on large reserves play grounds etc for the city. As long as you had the work they paid for themselves and made money.

Oh And they had no cab or even a canopy lol.

 

[ruffdog]

If I was going to spend that I would buy the Bobcat Toolcat go on UTube and check them out. air conditioned and heated cab

They also have 4 wheel independent suspension and a 2 person cab. It was the best choice for what I use it for.

 

[workinghard50]

Thank You!! Finally someone is making me feel better / less guilty about owning a "cheap" Kubota ZD1211 zero turn -- game changing awesome machine btw.

Now I feel so poor AUD $5,000 for S/H Grillo hillside mower ,go anywhere , outrigger leg for steep work ,left or right leg ,low center of gravity.,reach out and pick up sticks

 

[KennyG]

For some commercial businesses, those mowers probably make a lot of sense. Most people don't understand the impact of employee costs. If you provide benefits, it's hard to imagine an all-in employee cost of less than $40/hr. So after 2000 hours, the mower cost is less important than the labor costs. With the capacity of those mowers, they would be money savers over 72" commercial mower in the second year of use.

 

[KennyG]

I test mowed a nice Ferris Zero Turn at my nearby NH dealership. When I asked about the 0% financing option they told me "you can do that a for an 8% premium on the purchase price"! - LOL!, WTH?
Made me reconsider my relationship with them. (It is where I bought an NH compact utility tractor, years ago.)

Your dealer probably needs to work on his customer communication, but he's probably not being a jerk. Sometimes the manufacturers require the dealers to subsidize the 0% financing. What he should have done was quoted you a price and told you that was with 0% financing. Then he should have whispered that he would give you 8% off if you paid cash.

When I bought my JD years ago, they offered 0% for up to 5 years. For 3 year financing, the price was the same, cash or financed. Over three years, the price went up because the dealer had to subsidize the additional financing. They explained all that to me up front.

 

[WinterDeere]

For some commercial businesses, those mowers probably make a lot of sense. Most people don't understand the impact of employee costs. If you provide benefits, it's hard to imagine an all-in employee cost of less than $40/hr. So after 2000 hours, the mower cost is less important than the labor costs. With the capacity of those mowers, they would be money savers over 72" commercial mower in the second year of use.

You make a valid point, but I'm not sure I agree with the numbers. If they're putting 2k hours on a machine every year, it's not making money after 2 years... it's being sold!

I suspect down time and lost business due to high-hours equipment keeps more small business owners awake at night, than any predictable employee or equipment cost.

 

[5030]

I'm wondering how many mowings you'd need to make to pay off the difference in a diesel versus gasser mower. Anyone care to take a stab at it? Mileage is better, but diesel isn't exactly free, either. I mow 3-4 acres every 3 - 5 days, and I don't think I could manage to rack up enough in fuel savings to offset the higher price of the diesel, I'm guessing only a commercial outfit is going to be able to make those numbers work.

As to maintenance, I've owned my mower almost 20 years, and have not had a single expense related to the engine, other than yearly oil and filter.

Wish I could say that. New blades every year with sandy soil, a couple new spindles because even on their 'professional models' Cub uses geaseable from the top spindles but neglects to remove the inner seals so the bearings fail.. You pump grease to nowhere. Once I figure out the issue and removed the inner bearing seals my issues vanished as they were getting greased. Then there are the anti-scalp wheels that need replaced every couple years as well Got wise with them as well and drilled grease passages in them as well. I have no issue running the F series diesel because unlike a conventional ZTR, they hold their resale value very well and are in high demand. I paid over 6 for my M50 Tank at got 1800 on a trade. Not a good return on investment. I forgot about the belts that need replaced every other year as well, so no the ZTR wasn't a maintanence free machine by a long shot and my F series rides much better (has an air ride seat) as well. I really don't care for mid mount mowers anyway, especially after running the F series. The mower goes under our many trees with no issue. The mid mount always gave me bloody arms when I tried the same the same thing.

The F series is all drive shaft and the blades are driven with oil filled right angle gearboxes. No belts and the F series is a hydrostat infinite speed control and it has a power steering wheel, I like that better than the Oars any day.

Sure it cost appreciably more but again, they hold their resale value and don't depreciate much, if any.

Besides, the diesel engine will be humming along, long after your gasser bites the dust and you either have to sell it for about nothing or replace the motor and I got news for ya, those motors ain't cheap. Even the Predator at HF is pushing a grand.

Finally, you have to do valve adjustments regularly or your gasser will eat the camshaft and that is a well proven fact also a fact is that pot metal block you have with no bearing inserts will last maybe 2000 hours, maybe, if you change the oil and filter in a timely manner. I mow my yard plus 2 rental properties so I do acreage on a regular basis. And yours is air cooled so you better be pulling the shroud and cleaning the chaff out from the cylinder fins as well. Mine is water cooled so no fins to fiddle with either.

Want to keep comparing or is that enough?

 

[hiddentacocatneddih]

Years back I worked for a contractor mowing 400 acres of campground, day use are and boat ramps for the the army core of engineers.

We had two 72 inch, one 54 inch and two 48inch grand stands.

One of these would of made a huge difference. We had 5 days to mow it all and start over the next Monday. It was 16 hour days 5 days a week every week in the summer

 

[WinterDeere]

New blades every year... a couple new spindles... the bearings fail.. the anti-scalp wheels that need replaced every couple years as well... I forgot about the belts that need replaced every other year as well...

It sounds like you just have bad luck with equipment, or are generally harder on it than one really needs to be. I ran the original blades on my ZTR for more than 15 years, almost exactly 1000 hours, and they still look good. I swapped them because I wanted a more aggressive blade, but could have easily run them another 15 years. I still have all three original 2007 spindles, and anti-scalp wheels. All of my original belts lasted 15 years (nearly 1000 hours), as well... in fact I'm still running the original 2007 primary pump drive belt at 1200 hours.

Besides, the diesel engine will be humming along, long after your gasser bites the dust and you either have to sell it for about nothing or replace the motor and I got news for ya, those motors ain't cheap. Even the Predator at HF is pushing a grand.

I've owned more than one mower or garden tractor with a 50+ year old engine, still running fine. I'm not sure why you'd expect an engine to self-destruct, just because it runs on gasoline.

My 1963 Cub Cadet, Kohler K301, still running fine when I sold it about 8 years ago. My 1971 Toro walk-behind, with a Briggs engine, still running fine after 53 years. I expect the 2007 Kawi on my ZTR will outlast my use of it.

Finally, you have to do valve adjustments regularly or your gasser will eat the camshaft and that is a well proven fact...

Fact??? Not really. First, what do you call "regularly", because for me, the 300 hour recommended interval works out to every fourth or fifth year. I don't mind that.

As to actually needing to do it, I've never actually had to make any major adjustment, they're always still in the recommended range. I make small adjustments, just to put them right in the middle of the range, but could probably go 3 x 300 hours before they really need adjustments... because I change my oil and filter every year. I average 72 hours per year, but have had one year as heavy as 102 hours and a few in the 90's.

also a fact is that pot metal block you have with no bearing inserts will last maybe 2000 hours, maybe, if you change the oil and filter in a timely manner.

I guess we will see! I'm at 1200 hours now, and may be ready to give up mowing or move to another machine, by the time it hits 2000 hours in 11.5 years. Or... it may be just fine.

I mow my yard plus 2 rental properties so I do acreage on a regular basis.

Good for you. I only mow my own yard.

And yours is air cooled so you better be pulling the shroud and cleaning the chaff out from the cylinder fins as well.

Yes. There is an air intake screen and oil cooler that just get blown off with my leaf blower, when I'm blowing off the deck after each use. No extra time, I'm already blowing off the deck, seat, etc.

There are also three access panels in the shroud, that should be opened and blown out with compressed air every 100 hours. I do this once per year with my January maintenance, and it takes all of about 5 minutes.

Mine is water cooled so no fins to fiddle with either.

You do know water just moves the heat to a radiator, which is air cooled? Plenty of tractors and other machines overheat, because their radiator is blocked with grass. You need to keep your machine breathing clear, no matter whether the engine is cooled directly by air, or if you're moving that heat to an air-cooled radiator.

Want to keep comparing or is that enough?

Whatever you want, big guy. No one asked, and I suspect no one really cares about your unique situation, or mine. I'm just answering because you seemed to be responding to my post.

 

[5030]

Wish I could say that. New blades every year with sandy soil, a couple new spindles because even on their 'professional models' Cub uses geaseable from the top spindles but neglects to remove the inner seals so the bearings fail.. You pump grease to nowhere. Once I figure out the issue and removed the inner bearing seals my issues vanished as they were getting greased. Then there are the anti-scalp wheels that need replaced every couple years as well Got wise with them as well and drilled grease passages in them as well. I have no issue running the F series diesel because unlike a conventional ZTR, they hold their resale value very well and are in high demand. I paid over 6 for my M50 Tank at got 1800 on a trade. Not a good return on investment. I forgot about the belts that need replaced every other year as well, so no the ZTR wasn't a maintanence free machine by a long shot and my F series rides much better (has an air ride seat) as well. I really don't care for mid mount mowers anyway, especially after running the F series. The mower goes under our many trees with no issue. The mid mount always gave me bloody arms when I tried the same the same thing.

The F series is all drive shaft and the blades are driven with oil filled right angle gearboxes. No belts and the F series is a hydrostat infinite speed control and it has a power steering wheel, I like that better than the Oars any day.

Sure it cost appreciably more but again, they hold their resale value and don't depreciate much, if any.

Besides, the diesel engine will be humming along, long after your gasser bites the dust and you either have to sell it for about nothing or replace the motor and I got news for ya, those motors ain't cheap. Even the Predator at HF is pushing a grand.

Finally, you have to do valve adjustments regularly or your gasser will eat the camshaft and that is a well proven fact also a fact is that pot metal block you have with no bearing inserts will last maybe 2000 hours, maybe, if you change the oil and filter in a timely manner. I mow my yard plus 2 rental properties so I do acreage on a regular basis. And yours is air cooled so you better be pulling the shroud and cleaning the chaff out from the cylinder fins as well. Mine is water cooled so no fins to fiddle with either.

Want to keep comparing or is that enough?

I might add that you can by an F series front mout mower with a climate controlled (as in heated and air conditioned if you wan that and a dedicated bagging system as well plus they accept many attachments like snow blowers, plows and power brooms.

All depends on the depth of your wallet. A new machine will set you back around 22 grand and the loaded one is over 30. I bought a used one, well cared for and always dealer serviced. It belonged to the local fair bord. Most of them wind up in commercial service anyway. They traded it in on a new F series front mount btw and I got it for what my dealer gave them on trade which was close to nine grand btw. It has a 72" 3 blade deck, side discharge and the cut is hydraulically adjustable and the mower deck tilts up for easy cleaning. They certainly not for everyone but for me it fills the bill nicely and my wife still has her own ZTR but it don't get used much anymore. Hers has a steering wheel as well.

 

[5030]

Got news for everyone, Kubota does the same thing with their 0 percent financing deal. They all do it actually. They just weave it into the price differently.

 

[5030]

I ain't no big guy but thanks for the compliment anyways. Far as keeping the radiator clean, I also use a battery powered blower to clean off the deck and the rad, every time I use it but then I do the same with my tractors as well, or will this year. Next year both will be sporting reversable cooling fans. Maybe I'll do the F Series as well. Have the fans sitting in the shop, just need time to install them. Shop is very busy presently. Doing a big plasma cut job for Ford Motor. Just received 25 thousand pounds of 1/4" hot rolled sheet the other day. My shop Saber will be very busy for a couple weeks. Hope I have time to mow the lawns....lol Love good income jobs.

 

[WinterDeere]

I think one important factor for the commercial guys, which might be lost in all this debate over maintenance and longevity, is how well one technology or brand does over another, when poorly-maintained. As a homeowner paying for my own equipment, and who only does ~100 hours per year per machine, I take really good care of it. But a commercial outfit running their machines 200 hours per month in-season may be more prone to skipping or otherwise missing maintenance intervals.

I always wonder, when I hear about mowers catching fire after use... did the guy not take the 10 seconds to blow it off after use, or the 5 minutes to blow out the cylinder cooling at least once per year? Likewise, when I hear of seized motors, and start wondering how many hundreds of passed since their last oil change.

Some tech (diesel vs. petrol) and some brands are surely more or less sensitive to poor maintenance practices.