Is it time to consider electric?

[kozal01]

When I was still working in a machine shop we had to have foundations installed to set two huge CNC mills on. The contractors used deisel powered skid steers and stuff in the shop, made us all sick. I would have loved for them to be electric then!

 

[buckeyefarmer]

Not particularly cheap, but what is saving the planet worth to you?

Saving the planet from what? That's the least of our problems..

 

[DarkBlack]

BioCharger

airburners.com

Apparently it is a mobile burn station / charging station. So you could have self recharging forestry equipment.

Not particularly cheap, but what is saving the planet worth to you?

Their advertising says you can feed it 10 tons of wood an hour, and makes enough electricity to charge 3, or 4 battery machines a day?
I don’t get it.
That sounds like a really inefficient somewhat, portable ( with a tractor trailer flatbed) wood chip generator plant.
They also claim no “harmful greenhouse gases like methane “, but conveniently omit CO2
Nice

Save the world?
Really?

 

[CliffordK]

Their advertising says you can feed it 10 tons of wood an hour, and makes enough electricity to charge 3, or 4 battery machines a day?
I don’t get it.
That sounds like a really inefficient somewhat, portable ( with a tractor trailer flatbed) wood chip generator plant.
They also claim no “harmful greenhouse gases like methane “, but conveniently omit CO2
Nice

Save the world?
Really?

I have to say that I didn't think their pictures looked super efficient. Whenever I see red flames out the top, that screams inefficient. Plus, it would depend on whether it is being used at an urban or rural jobsite. Fire Safety? And, of course, when one has a lot of CAD graphics and very few actual photos... vaporware?

As far as recharging, one would have to look at the actual numbers, and not just "machines charged". If it can push out a continuous 300 kW or so for recharging and jobsite power, that would be a LOT of power, and would be equivalent to burning a lot of diesel if working off grid.

CO2 for renewables is complex. If it is taken out of the renewable waste stream and put back into new growth, then that should be a net zero, if it is being managed with renewables (not burning diesel to harvest it).

The site discusses a couple of other things. Aerobic waste decomposition creates carbon dioxide equivalent to the amount of waste, albeit over time. Anaerobic waste decomposition creates methane (which it mentioned), so burying the waste creates methane which is a greenhouse gas, but eventually oxidizes in air to carbon dioxide and water.

The site also discusses "biochar". I.E. incomplete burning, and pushing the carbon rich soot back into the soil. Ideally one could convert hydrocarbons to water + graphite or other high carbon forms, without making carbon dioxide.

Of course the risk is to also produce carbon monoxide.

 

[Coffee drinker]

The whole thing is a rabbit hole, it is not what it seems to be. Welcome to the world of "saving the planet"

 

[shooterdon]

”Saving the planet” is too stupid to imagine. There are millions of idiots drinking the Kool-Aid.

 

[scotts562]

Power Trac's parent company Hydra power already makes an electric battery powered loader for coal mines.

I know a plumber who is using electric excavators. He loves them. Does alot of indoor work. Says one unexpected advantage is the ability to talk to the guy in the trench instead of yelling over the engine noise. His recharge by plugging into a regular 110v outlet overnight and gives him a day's run time. I believe he is on his 3rd year of running them. Not sure how the batteries are holding up.

 

[DarkBlack]

I know a plumber who is using electric excavators. He loves them.

Not your typical plumber

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

.

 

[scotts562]

I don't get the joke

Not your typical plumber

 

[MossRoad]

@ArlyA I don't get the antagonism either. If someone doesn't want an electric doodad, buy something else. Not a big deal, at least to me. "Don't like cordless battery powered tools?" Great! Go use a hand tool, gasoline powered, or an air tool, or whatever floats your boat.

I've been around jobs where the choice was propane, electric, or by hand, and some where it was either hand or electric. No, they weren't basic outdoor foundation builds, they were excavations inside an operating facility, and there were air quality / noise requirements because of what was going on in the rest of the facility. There is a role for electric machines in some applications in my view. I would have used an electric mini bobcat in a heartbeat, and it would have been cheaper in the long run.

I think it is the old horses for courses saying. You wouldn't take a draft horse to the Kentucky Derby, any more than you would ask a two year old Derby runner to pull a plow. I like my pocket knife, but others have different brands and makes. That's great in my book. Life would be pretty boring if everyone looked the same, at the same food, and drove the exact same vehicle.

I have used lithium batteries since they came out, and I have had zero fires, but that says nothing about them in general. It does make me more comfortable with having them around. Knowing about the battery chemistries, manufacturing processes/controls, and risks, makes me comfortable about having them around.

All the best,

Peter

At my former employer one of my duties was to maintain a fleet of 4 electric clamp/fork trucks, 4 skid movers, 3 pallet wrappers, and around 35 pallet lifts. All had lead/acid batteries. They worked great. The electric forklifts were a LOT smaller than ICE powered equivalents because the batteries weighed so much they didn't need nearly as much of the heavy metal weight on the backs for ballast. However, when it care time to replace the batteries in the electric fork trucks, they opted for propane powered fork trucks. The replacement batteries were just too expensive. Duty cycle in our situation was a non-issue. It was strictly cost.

All of the other electric equipment remained because they didn't have large batteries. We just had to check the water in them on a regular PM schedule, and plug them in every time the battery indicator told us to.

If an electric fork truck started to run down, we'd park it, plug it in, and take another one. If a propane unit died, we'd swap tanks and be on our way.

We preferred the electric units over the ICE units for several reasons. Didn't have to store a dozen propane tanks. Didn't have to rely on a propane vendor to keep them stocked. Didn't have to do any oil changes. Didn't have to keep the ventilation fans running. Could hear very well compared to the ICE units. Smaller footprint. Just overall much easier to maintain.

Operation was virtually the same, so no issues there.

After the electrics were sidelined they sat in the warehouse for a few years. Then they were scrapped. One of my coworkers removed the mast off of one and adapted it to become a 3pt fork lift for his tractor at home.

 

[ponytug]

I understand the economics, though I wish the comfort, and utility for the employees could have been weighted in.

 

[BruceSH]

Around here most of the electricity is from renewable resources. Whether the power companies can keep up with electricity demand is another question, especially as they seem set on removing dams around the state.

I bumped into this today.

Air Burners Inc. - #1 Air Curtain Burner Manufacturer

Our air curtain burners are a cost-efficient, environmentally-friendly solution to eliminate wood and vegetative waste 40x faster than an open burn.

airburners.com

BioCharger

airburners.com

Apparently it is a mobile burn station / charging station. So you could have self recharging forestry equipment.

Not particularly cheap, but what is saving the planet worth to you?

It wasn't that long ago that China was opening a new coal fired power plant every few days. I care about pollution and saving resources but billions of the earth's population don't seem to care. Why bankrupt ourselves when all of our do-gooding is a spit in the ocean compared to the majority of the world? Common sense is not the fuel that propels our (US/CA) green initiatives.

 

[Hay Dude]

It wasn't that long ago that China was opening a new coal fired power plant every few days. I care about pollution and saving resources but billions of the earth's population don't seem to care. Why bankrupt ourselves when all of our do-gooding is a spit in the ocean compared to the majority of the world? Common sense is not the fuel that propels our (US/CA) green initiatives.

^^^THIS^^^

 

[Hay Dude]

In every single discussion over EV’s, E-tractors, E-chainsaws or E-anything, the same pattern occurs.

I don’t think there is ONE member here on TBN that dislikes electric powered vehicles or equipment to be offered. Choices are great.

What they DO dislike is electric equipment being forced on them by an oppressive “no choice” administration and taking away their ICE powered equipment choices being discontinued and all the problems that come with discontinued parts, service, etc.

So when someone cries “why all the electric hate”, victim crybaby BS, there’s no “hate” of electric. There IS hate of being forced into buying just ONE choice (the administrations choice -electric) or nothing at all.

GET IT????????

 

[Rockbadchild]

Well I hate it, I hate that you don't really own a Tesla when you buy it, it's not your car it's a rental, parts are restricted by tesla, repairs are restricted by tesla, then by the time your cars is paid off you battery need to be changed (that the case in cold climates) then your travel is restricted by battery range and charging time.

I keep seeing videos of people trying to promote electric dirt bikes, not going to lie they look like a rockets I am sure their torque are unreal but the sound pathetic (i would’ve used a different word here but I will keep it PG)… Then the charge time is 1 to two hours, ok that's fine. Operation time up to 6h IF you baby it and 2 hours at full throttle at full power... that's a 1:1 charge to operation ratio so just like a tesla it smoke anything run by gas or diesel but not for a long time that’s the bottle neck for me you have a monster at your finger tips but can't used it unless you want to walk home what is the good in that.

 

[Rockbadchild]

If someone would ever convince me to own a tesla it would be this guy... I say yes to the ICE T. lol ...

 

[oosik]

Hay Dude is right - post #55. I don't hate EV's - I simply don't currently have a need for that type of vehicle. AND - I DO NOT want something that will not fit my needs - being forced on me.

I currently have plenty of electricity. It comes in from the local Co-Op utility. A mile down my driveway to my house and out buildings.

 

[Hay Dude]

Well I hate it, I hate that you don't really own a Tesla when you buy it, it's not your car it's a rental, parts are restricted by tesla, repairs are restricted by tesla, then by the time your cars is paid off you battery need to be changed (that the case in cold climates) then your travel is restricted by battery range and charging time.

I keep seeing videos of people trying to promote electric dirt bikes, not going to lie they look like a rockets I am sure their torque are unreal but the sound pathetic (i would’ve used a different word here but I will keep it PG)… Then the charge time is 1 to two hours, ok that's fine. Operation time up to 6h IF you baby it and 2 hours at full throttle at full power... that's a 1:1 charge to operation ratio so just like a tesla it smoke anything run by gas or diesel but not for a long time that’s the bottle neck for me you have a monster at your finger tips but can't used it unless you want to walk home what is the good in that.

Me, too.
But I’m more talking about electric equipment being forced on us.

When the electric farm tractor nonsense gets going, the EV farm tractors better be damn good AND subsidized, or you’ll pay 10 times the cost of food and have farmer revolts that’ll make the 2020 “summer of love” BLM riots look like a kids carnival.

 

[Rockbadchild]

Me, too.
But I’m more talking about electric equipment being forced on us.

When the electric farm tractor nonsense gets going, the EV farm tractors better be damn good AND subsidized, or you’ll pay 10 times the cost of food and have farmer revolts that’ll make the 2020 “summer of love” BLM riots look like a summer carnival.

I don't disagree with that and I am against that as well but since you made that point I didn't see the used on repeating it and chose to expand on the other points I dislike or am against.