building a barn first curve ball

[CloverKnollFarms]

Pay cash. And since you said it won't flood there, no need for flood insurance. Right?

 

[Rockbadchild]

Pay cash. And since you said it won't flood there, no need for flood insurance. Right?

yeah I don't know about you but I don't have 250k laying around ... my wife is boarding her horses right now so her board is basically paying for it but its not like we have that cash up front.

 

[Rockbadchild]

but hey I am available for sponsor's

 

[orezok]

but hey I am available for sponsor's

I did a Go Fund Me for you. So far we have $8 but it’s looking good

 

[LouNY]

My wifes old home was located in a FEMA maps flood plain, her mortgage holder was informed of that (not sure how or why) and they in turn informed her she had to get flood insurance on a home in a listed flood plain. Such insurance had a premium of about 25% of the homes valve per year.
That home was in about the same flood plain as your is. We ended up hiring an engineer to perform the survey and calculations to remove the home from the flood plain. This had to be done or they would have defaulted the mortgage and the house would have been just about unsalable.
The end result was that $5000 later the house was not in a flood plain and the counties map was amended and corrected.

 

[Rockbadchild]

My wifes old home was located in a FEMA maps flood plain, her mortgage holder was informed of that (not sure how or why) and they in turn informed her she had to get flood insurance on a home in a listed flood plain. Such insurance had a premium of about 25% of the homes valve per year.
That home was in about the same flood plain as your is. We ended up hiring an engineer to perform the survey and calculations to remove the home from the flood plain. This had to be done or they would have defaulted the mortgage and the house would have been just about unsalable.
The end result was that $5000 later the house was not in a flood plain and the counties map was amended and corrected.

yeah that's what I have to do but I assume it would cost me more then that … i am waiting on a quote these firm are a 3h drive away.

 

[Gator6x4]

A lot of locations classified and land adjacent to a stream as a flood zone. This way a home owner could purchase Flood Insurance.

"To qualify for the National Flood Insurance Program (NFIP) coverage, it will depend on what zone and community you live in. If you don't live in an area that participates with the NFIP, you could still be eligible through a private carrier."

"Flooding. When water damage comes from flooding, it's typically not covered on a standard homeowners insurance policy. This type of damage is usually covered by flood insurance from the National Flood Insurance Program."

 

[Rockbadchild]

A lot of locations classified and land adjacent to a stream as a flood zone. This way a home owner could purchase Flood Insurance.

"To qualify for the National Flood Insurance Program (NFIP) coverage, it will depend on what zone and community you live in. If you don't live in an area that participates with the NFIP, you could still be eligible through a private carrier."

"Flooding. When water damage comes from flooding, it's typically not covered on a standard homeowners insurance policy. This type of damage is usually covered by flood insurance from the National Flood Insurance Program."

I live in Canada it’s been established earlier in this tread, so don’t state US program none apply here.

 

[RjCorazza]

It's easy to forget that TBN folks are from all over the world. I am currently planning the squeezing of a small pole barn in between a flood plain, (2) septic fields, and property setbacks.
I am just about ready to submit a plan after jumping through some unexpected hoops for my jurisdiction.
Good luck with your project!

 

[BleedingOrange]

Wow, a 250 thousand dollar barn ? What are your money making plans for it ?

 

[Rockbadchild]

Wow, a 250 thousand dollar barn ? What are your money making plans for it ?

I think it will be but I hope it will be less .... probably closer to the 200k ... none... lol ... renting vs owning is the justification ... my wife as 3 horse in board right now so that alone will eventually pay for it...

 

[dodge man]

I’m going by what happens in the USA but I’m licensed as a land surveyor in Illinois. I’m not allowed to do drainage calculations under my license but some states do allow it. In Illinois a professional engineer would do the drainage calculations. Maybe in Canada surveyors are allowed to do drainage calculations?

They can’t use your data, they have no idea what your education or qualifications are. They will probably use existing topo data such as LIDAR and work off of that. They will probably visit the site to determine runoff coefficients and what the stream bed looks like.

The question is what if the area is really close to the flood zone? Say within a foot of elevation. I’d turn around and tell you I can’t make the call we will have to do an on the ground survey, which will be big dollars. I’m just trying to give you an idea what would happen based on my experience.

 

[MTGreen]

If you think your surveyor/engineer is likely to find the site borderline/questionable, another idea is bringing in enough fill to raise your build site another 3' or so prior to the survey. This was done a number of times in ancient times for additional flood protection

 

[Rockbadchild]

I’m going by what happens in the USA but I’m licensed as a land surveyor in Illinois. I’m not allowed to do drainage calculations under my license but some states do allow it. In Illinois a professional engineer would do the drainage calculations. Maybe in Canada surveyors are allowed to do drainage calculations?

They can’t use your data, they have no idea what your education or qualifications are. They will probably use existing topo data such as LIDAR and work off of that. They will probably visit the site to determine runoff coefficients and what the stream bed looks like.

The question is what if the area is really close to the flood zone? Say within a foot of elevation. I’d turn around and tell you I can’t make the call we will have to do an on the ground survey, which will be big dollars. I’m just trying to give you an idea what would happen based on my experience.

yeah I was surprised too that they wanted a surveyor... but this only comes from a city consultant firm. Initially I thought they would look at my information is make the call themself but no it was only to know whether or not they could take my word the answer was you may or may not but a qualify surveyor can confirm... We have a construction company with PHD engineers near by and I did contact them and they told me the ministry of natural resources don't accept their conclusion for these study because its not their field of expertise... in my case it is obvious that it is not a flood zone I have a 16.5 ft elevation difference and the creek only flow 2 or 3 month throughout the year... it is more of a swale or gully then a creek.

this was what was ask and in blue was the consultant answer

Can you or someone at WSP review the information provided by this individual and confirm whether or not it is reliable? If so, would this information qualify as ¨empirical evidence¨ to justify an adjustment to the current OS zone? The information provided by the individual in the two following emails, (diagrams, calculations and links to resources), constitutes a desktop review of the available public information. It may or may not be considered ‘empirical evidence.’ An Ontario Land Surveyor (OLS) would be able to determine and conclude whether it is valid empirical evidence. Given the depth of the analysis already provided by said individual, if proven valid, it can potentially reduce the cost of hiring an OLS to attest the quality of the information that was provided as empirical evidence. In Planning, the onus is always on the proponent (owner, applicant, etc) to provide the required information, studies, or evidence, verified by a qualified professional, in relation to a proposed development, a barn in this case.



If it is not considered empirical evidence, could we simply ask for a letter signed by a local engineer (ex. compagny name staff) stating, for example, that he took note of the terrain elevation where the proposed barn would be built and confirms that it is not in a flood plain? Flood Plain boundary adjustments are usually confirmed by surveyors and not engineers. As stated above, the provided information can be verified by a qualified OLS, along with a new proposed Open Space (OS) boundary on a certified survey of land. This would be considered valid empirical evidence

 

[Rockbadchild]

If you think your surveyor/engineer is likely to find the site borderline/questionable, another idea is bringing in enough fill to raise your build site another 3' or so prior to the survey. This was done a number of times in ancient times for additional flood protection

I have 16.5 feet of elevation above the creek flood nest, the other side of the bank is 3 ft lower then where I want to built but is not in a flood zone so how raising the ground a other 3 ft would make a difference ??

 

[CloverKnollFarms]

Wow, a 250 thousand dollar barn ? What are your money making plans for it ?

Sounds like horses? My 40x60 was just under $100k with a concrete floor, insulation and electrical...

 

[BleedingOrange]

I have a friend who has a wife that is into owning horses. He told me if you want to be a millionaire horse owner, start off with at least 2 million.

 

[Rockbadchild]

I have a friend who has a wife that is into owning horses. He told me if you want to be a millionaire horse owner, start off with at least 2 million.

 

[Rockbadchild]

i’ve been pilling some fence post …

 

[ning]

No there is not another suitable location to built, there is a place where it is not in the ''flood zone'' but it is far away from services and it is 14 feet lower then my current ideal location so I am not building there. They will let me built where I want with the waver but then the land stay in the flood zone. That's the part I don't like but like CloverKnollFarms said I can always get that changes in the future.

edit: its not in the city ''flood zone'' but it is in a real flood zone. lol

I'd go with the waiver for the moment so that you can get moving, but depending on your view of the future you may want to get the survey done anyways. Is there enough land that in the future you may want to build something else, which may need insurance? If you think it's possible you may want to sell later on, the survey taking your barn and house out of the flood plain may be invaluable, and it may be better to get that determination done now before the council puts further roadblocks on changes.