Hillside brush cutting power and stability 425/1430/1445

[2manyrocks]

Briefly spoke with PT sales about mowing 5 acres of 6' brush on a 18 degree slope although I suspect it's steeper in places.

Sounded like the sales person recommended the PT1430 over the PT425. "Bigger wheel motors, beefier machine, if on the fence between sizes, get the bigger one." Then I read a post here that one of our members was advised to get the 1445 over the PT1430 in part because of automatic braking and it has a 35 degree slope rating. Plus I assume you can still get a diesel on the 1445?

What's the real story from actual users?

 

[ponytug]

I love my 1445 for exactly that type of mowing. I brush cut. The brush cutter happily takes out 3" saplings here, and it will toss the pieces no small distance. In other words be careful mowing near buildings and roads.

I don't know what the official upper limit is, but 30 degrees is pushing it for me with the odd rock and gopher hole. (So, yes, I would believe 35.)

I bought the 1445 specifically for the automatic brake, and it has come in handy more than a few times. If you are freewheeling down hill with no power, the wheel motors do sometimes generate enough pressure to keep the brakes off, so reach for the switch ASAP.

Going up a 25 degree slope with the mower, most of the year I run out of traction. (Loose gravel/dry clay dust). I have learned to do diagonals when it is dry. When the soil is damp, I have no issues going straight up hill.

I highly recommend my muffler wrap modification for mowing. It really lowers both hydraulic and engine oil temperatures. I would also recommend considering net style chains for slope mowing under wet or sappy conditions. I cut thistle mostly, and the sap is "slicker than snake snot", and the chains help keep the tractor from slipping sideways, "crabbing".

If it is in your budget, I would definitely go with the 1445. It is a rock.

I love the Deutz; if you can still get it.

Any other questions?

All the best,

Peter

 

[2manyrocks]

Apart from the possibility of losing traction, do you feel like your 1445 ever runs short of hill climbing power when also cutting tall brush?

 

[ponytug]

Apart from the possibility of losing traction, do you feel like your 1445 ever runs short of hill climbing power when also cutting tall brush?

I cut across 15-20 degree slopes, and I try to cut down 20-30 degree slopes. Cutting up a thirty degree slope is slow. The steeper slopes are the one time that I wish I had a turbo and another 15-30HP.

One other huge benefit to the 1445 is the draft control feature that enables you to set a pressure in the lift arms, transferring almost all of the mower weight to the tractor. That gives the mower much, much better traction. It is a game changer for slope mowing.

All the best,

Peter

 

[woodlandfarms]

Ain’t no replacement for displacement. Get as big as you can afford (when it comes to pt tractors)

 

[2manyrocks]

PT 1445 with the brush mower lists for $38,440. While desirable, it isn't inexpensive.

I've read that one TBN member upgraded the wheel motors on his PT425 and possibly the factory is now doing this. I see a top speed of 8 mph listed. Is there a way of further upgrading the wheel motors on the PT425 to gear it down further?

 

[ponytug]

PT 1445 with the brush mower lists for $38,440. While desirable, it isn't inexpensive.

I've read that one TBN member upgraded the wheel motors on his PT425 and possibly the factory is now doing this. I see a top speed of 8 mph listed. Is there a way of further upgrading the wheel motors on the PT425 to gear it down further?

You can, but wheel motors themselves are not inexpensive.

What you end up chasing with slope mowing up/down is raw, total power output per unit time, aka horsepower. So going for larger wheel displacement motors will get you better hill climbing power, but at a slower rate of speed. The larger wheel motors will commit you to lower speeds always, in all tasks.

The 1445 is almost double the HP of the 425, some of which is used by the larger mower.

Could you get the work done in a 425? I think probably if your slope isn't over 20 degrees or so. (The upper maximum on the engine was around 22 degrees, if I recall correctly, due to oil starvation.) Would you need to make accommodations? Almost certainly; slower, different mowing patterns, etc.

The 45HP Deutz is happy to do a lot of work at just above idle, whereas the gasoline engine in the 425 needs to be closer to wide open throttle always for optimal air cooling. The Deutz ends up being quite fuel efficient for me as most of my chores and tasks are done closer to 1/4 throttle. (Mowing, rototilling, chipping, and trenching being the exceptions)

At the end of the day, I think it is as @woodlandfarms suggested about buying the HP that you can afford.

I looked at the 425, and Power-Trac talked me out of it due to my steeper slopes. I am very happy with the 1445, and use it pretty much daily for something, and being able to lift 1800lbs comes in handy far more often than I thought it would.
All the best,

Peter

 

[2manyrocks]

The CH20 gas engine in my Terramite will burn about 5 gallons of gas in an afternoon. The 22hp diesel in my Yanmar 226d will run for a couple of days on 5 gallons, and significantly outwork the gas engine in the process.

I asked the salesperson at PT why they didn't offer a small diesel. The answer was cost. If they put a small diesel in either the 425 or 1430, they would appeal to me a great deal more.

The slower speed doesn't bother me. I'd very much prefer it to have more hill climbing ability over speed. 4-5mph is fast enough, especially when trying to go slow on a slope anyway.

Mowing today with a 2 wheel Bachtold mower, I ran into four or five different groundhog holes buried in the brush.

I hadn't thought to ask PT before, but I wonder if they'd consider installing higher torque wheel motors to start with?

 

[ponytug]

The CH20 gas engine in my Terramite will burn about 5 gallons of gas in an afternoon. The 22hp diesel in my Yanmar 226d will run for a couple of days on 5 gallons, and significantly outwork the gas engine in the process.

I asked the salesperson at PT why they didn't offer a small diesel. The answer was cost. If they put a small diesel in either the 425 or 1430, they would appeal to me a great deal more.

The slower speed doesn't bother me. I'd very much prefer it to have more hill climbing ability over speed. 4-5mph is fast enough, especially when trying to go slow on a slope anyway.

Mowing today with a 2 wheel Bachtold mower, I ran into four or five different groundhog holes buried in the brush.

I hadn't thought to ask PT before, but I wonder if they'd consider installing higher torque wheel motors to start with?

It never hurts to ask. In general, they don't do a lot of custom work, but I have heard of some folks that got lucky.

If you can finagle it, do a test drive. Where are you located?

All the best,

Peter

 

[2manyrocks]

Middle Tennessee. The factory is about 5 hours from me.

 

[ernemats]

I would say go to Tazwell and try the different machines and see which one would best suit you. I have a 422 and also an 1845 slope mower both have served me well over the years

 

[MossRoad]

You can, but wheel motors themselves are not inexpensive.

What you end up chasing with slope mowing up/down is raw, total power output per unit time, aka horsepower. So going for larger wheel displacement motors will get you better hill climbing power, but at a slower rate of speed. The larger wheel motors will commit you to lower speeds always, in all tasks.

The 1445 is almost double the HP of the 425, some of which is used by the larger mower.

Could you get the work done in a 425? I think probably if your slope isn't over 20 degrees or so. (The upper maximum on the engine was around 22 degrees, if I recall correctly, due to oil starvation.) Would you need to make accommodations? Almost certainly; slower, different mowing patterns, etc.

The 45HP Deutz is happy to do a lot of work at just above idle, whereas the gasoline engine in the 425 needs to be closer to wide open throttle always for optimal air cooling. The Deutz ends up being quite fuel efficient for me as most of my chores and tasks are done closer to 1/4 throttle. (Mowing, rototilling, chipping, and trenching being the exceptions)

At the end of the day, I think it is as @woodlandfarms suggested about buying the HP that you can afford.

I looked at the 425, and Power-Trac talked me out of it due to my steeper slopes. I am very happy with the 1445, and use it pretty much daily for something, and being able to lift 1800lbs comes in handy far more often than I thought it would.
All the best,

Peter

Don't forget the weight difference in machines as well. The 425 is only about 1500# so it does not have the weight for traction VS the larger machines. Once you get on a slope, that can be an issue.

 

[ponytug]

Middle Tennessee. The factory is about 5 hours from me.

I would make the trip, or at least check the owners list to see if there is anyone close who might let you test drive theirs. I had a great time seeing the factory, the show room, and test driving a few tractors and implements.

All the best,

Peter

 

[m5040]

I have a 1430 and 1460, I feel the lack of auto brake on the 1430 to be a hazard. I would go for the 1445 just for the brake (not only is it automatic or just a flip of a switch, it locks all four wheels unlike the hand brake models that only do the front). I is the best machine I have operated on slopes for stability. They need a diff lock but you can still get buy.

 

[2manyrocks]

I have a 1430 and 1460, I feel the lack of auto brake on the 1430 to be a hazard. I would go for the 1445 just for the brake (not only is it automatic or just a flip of a switch, it locks all four wheels unlike the hand brake models that only do the front). I is the best machine I have operated on slopes for stability. They need a diff lock but you can still get buy.

Do you have the gas or diesel 1430? And what is your personal opinion of its hill climbing ability? Do you feel stable on slopes with it other than lacking auto brake? What are the best use cases for the 1430 in your opinion?

 

[ponytug]

Do you have the gas or diesel 1430? And what is your personal opinion of its hill climbing ability? Do you feel stable on slopes with it other than lacking auto brake? What are the best use cases for the 1430 in your opinion?

I only tried a 1430 once; it is wider and slightly more powerful than the 425 with more lifting capabilities (height and weight), and much less powerful than the 1445 which can lift more, and higher. The 1445 is slightly wider, with much more of both power and lifting capabilities.

I think it comes down to your use case(s). If you are using tractor 100% to slope mow, that is one answer. If you use it for other things, that may influence where you come out.

Personally, I completely underestimated the daily utility of a tractor with a large bucket and forks. I use my 1445 almost daily as a tool carrier and a force multiplier (lift/pull/carry). Sure there are occasional times when I think that an 1860 or 1460 could do a little more, but then I think of all the other jobs that they would have been a hindrance here.

I have used my 1445 for special projects that individually more than paid for the tractor, in my mind at least; to dig down for an emergency repair over Thanksgiving to a ruptured water line through wet clay with the 4n1, trenched in 1200' or so of subsurface drains for our arena, and put up 2000' or so of three rail fence posts with the post driver and forks/bucket. For me, a smaller 425 would have been able to do less than half of what I have done with my 1445. @MossRoad has a number of videos on how much you can do with a 425, and I think it is a lot. The 1445 is just a big brother that can do some more. For me, the added power and lift height comes in handy several times a week.

The other item that I also completely underestimated is how much easier and faster it is to get on/off a Power-Trac compared to other tractors. Super fast, and easy on your back/knees.

FWIW: I maintain 12-ish acres, almost all sloped, some at more than 45 degrees.

All the best,

Peter

 

[2manyrocks]

I'm guessing the current 1445 has a DPF emissions system?

 

[ponytug]

I'm guessing the current 1445 has a DPF emissions system?

I think that Power-Trac corralled a large stock of the pre-DEF/DPF Deutz engines, but check with sales to confirm that.

I can't say enough good things about the engines. They were used everywhere from tractors, to generators, irrigation pumps, to concrete pumps for good reasons. They just run and run. (The engine uses oil as a cooling fluid, which lowered the noise level to meet a EU noise standard. The oil is cooled with an oil to air cooler. Very simple.) I used its predecessor engine farming (ok its big, big, brother) that was something like 15% more fuel efficient than the equivalent gasoline powered engine. You could touch the muffler, as there wasn't that much waste heat. We ran a PTO generator off of it for something like ten days after a bad storm. It just ran and ran...

All the best,

Peter

 

[m5040]

Do you have the gas or diesel 1430? And what is your personal opinion of its hill climbing ability? Do you feel stable on slopes with it other than lacking auto brake? What are the best use cases for the 1430 in your opinion?

I started out with the smallest Power Trac they make, the PT018 to do brush cutting in an area that has a tremendous amount of rocks and ledge. I tried every brand of tractor I could find and the Power Trac was the only one that hit most of the correct requirements. Most importantly front attachment (HD mower) on a loader {not a 3pt hitch like Antonio Carraro, or a <2' lift on a Steiner or Ventrac}, 4x4, power steering, good ground clearance or impervious to underside damage, and agile. The 018 was near perfect, so much so that I tried the 1430 as I wanted a larger size and the diesel. It worked so well I looked into the 1445 and 1460 and ended up with the 1460. The hill climbing is good. I do wish it could lock out the differential action hydraulically like my Moffett 3-wheel fork lift. It could be added, since it is just hyd valves. I think it would make it a birds nest of entangled hoses, so I haven't done it.
On a steep climb with loose ground, you will get wheel spin, especially from the front wheels. However (the diesel (1430 up) PTs have a draft feature that proportionally directs oil to the lift cylinders as wheel torque is increased, adding more weight to the front tires.
The negative of the somewhat reduced traction of the PT (when compared to a 4x4 conventional tractor) is more then offset by the best stability I have experienced! Not to get too complicated, but conventional tractors are stabilized by the rear axle/tires only, not the front. Remember the front axle on a conv tractor is a pivot point and does not assist in keeping the tractor upright until one rear wheel is up in the air with the tractor leaning over-contacting the stops on the front axle. The PT along with being lower profile, has a different type of pivot at the center articulation joint. This works better as the front tires are rigidly attached to the complete front half of the tractor (with loader arms) and when you overload a PT, and the rear lifts in the air, that is when the rear portion will tilt over (like a conventional tractor only reversed). On the conventionally tractor with the loader raised and overloaded with one rear tire elevated, it now tilts the loader off to the side potentially outside of the tread width compounding your chances of rolling the tractor. As explained, the PT is ridge to the front wheels and holding the same angle as the ground, only the rear tilts.
I don't know how much "seat time" you have had on tractors, but if enough to compare, you will love the stability of the PT.
I used my 1430 more then any other tractor period. I have some attachments that I interchange with the 1460 and just for reasons of economy, if the 1430 will do the job, I use it instead of the 1460 (it is a cost per hour of operation consideration for me).
Sorry to be long winded, but as you could probably guess, I would recommend the PT over anything else available. Then figure the size you need, and the features that come with it. 425-no draft and pretty small tractor, 1430-has manual 2-wheel park/emergency brake, 1445+ diesel durability.

 

[2manyrocks]

Thank you for taking the time to explain why a PT has more stability. I was thinking a PT would be more stable due to being lower to the ground than a normal farm tractor, but your explanation helps me understand there's more to it.