Estate Planning and Trust Accounts

[ultrarunner]

It’s good to at least one backup identified in addition to the Trustee.

In looking at the folks Trust everyone that had a part is descended… mom, dad, the witnesses, lawyer, para legal and notary… 1996 in reality is almost 3 decades back.

It was odd that my siblings didn’t want to be involved as they were asked and Invited to meet with the lawyer on two occasions but the consensus is mom and dad can do whatever they want in a good way meaning they worked hard and it was there’s to decide.

Fast forward to the present and the interest from all is greatly increased…

It’s hard to predict the future…

 

[2manyrocks]

Just because someone is a bank attorney doesn't mean they know much of anything about estates and trusts.

I personally wouldn't want to rely on a bank branch employee to attempt to describe a trust situation to me without reviewing the relevant documents. Trusts are heavily document driven, and there are too many so called trusts that a document review is the only certain way to determine what any particular trust actually says.

It shouldn't take 3 hours for them to figure out what they need to move forward which to me sounds like they need to see (1) a copy of the trust (2) a copy of your appointment papers and then to get on with allowing you to transact business on behalf of the trust.

There should be no reason to apply for another FEIN. Do they ask customers to apply for a new social security number when the bank loses their records? That's how stupid that request would be. A copy of the letter issuing the FEIN should be sufficient if they are questioning the FEIN.

Any fiduciary appointment should have a backup if not a backup to the backup because over time people die, become disabled or decide they've had enough serving as fiduciary. Even if there is no specific backup named, there should be a procedure set forth by which the beneficiaries can select a replacement fiduciary is no one named to serve is willing to do the job.

 

[ultrarunner]

If that is where your money is tied up (bonds), POD does make things very simple.

Where the thought has to come into play is everything else that is considered an assett.

My dad left me 30k in an account with the same credit union that I got into. I use this credit union for a credit card for the last 30 years, have a very high credit limit and always thought very good of them (to the point that I talked to my wife about switching our banking accounts to them because we're going to leave the local bank sooner or later).

Even though it was a POD, dealing with this credit union was one of the biggest PITA dealings I had to go through per paperwork. I wanted the payout the EXACT same way my dad was taking it out for his retirement, like $700 per payment, twice a year for $1,400 annyally) After all the BS I went through trying to get this straight, they paid the majority of the funds within 7 months (I called and told them they made a mistake after their first deposit to no avail). Then, on the last payment, they send me off an email and informed me that a mistake has been made and they have to sit on the remaining last payment. I'm just like scratching my head. Told my wife there is NO WAY we are putting money in with them the way their "estate department" handled this.

I'm not a complete idiot. I'm not afraid to ask questions, and I can follow instructions, but they still royally F'ed it up all on their end and I gave up on trying to deal with reason.

Oh no… Credit Union has been my only shinning hope and only good things to say about them…

Only two competing thoughts… geographically they are 25 miles away and not wanting to have all my eggs in one basket as it were.

 

[Sigarms]

It’s good to at least one backup identified in addition to the Trustee.

In looking at the folks Trust everyone that had a part is descended… mom, dad, the witnesses, lawyer, para legal and notary… 1996 in reality is almost 3 decades back.

Thing about a trust is it has to be track of and updated.

Everything was in our sons name, and one night when I asked my wife what happens if we all perish on our family vacation and what happens to our assetts, then a call was made to the lawyer and the trust amended.

You can plan for the future, but if certain individuals are no longer in the equation of the trust, you need to upddate it and try your best to plan accordingly IMO.

 

[ultrarunner]

Just because someone is a bank attorney doesn't mean they know much of anything about estates and trusts.

I personally wouldn't want to rely on a bank branch employee to attempt to describe a trust situation to me without reviewing the relevant documents. Trusts are heavily document driven, and there are too many so called trusts that a document review is the only certain way to determine what any particular trust actually says.

It shouldn't take 3 hours for them to figure out what they need to move forward which to me sounds like they need to see (1) a copy of the trust (2) a copy of your appointment papers and then to get on with allowing you to transact business on behalf of the trust.

There should be no reason to apply for another FEIN. Do they ask customers to apply for a new social security number when the bank loses their records? That's how stupid that request would be. A copy of the letter issuing the FEIN should be sufficient if they are questioning the FEIN.

Any fiduciary appointment should have a backup if not a backup to the backup because over time people die, become disabled or decide they've had enough serving as fiduciary. Even if there is no specific backup named, there should be a procedure set forth by which the beneficiaries can select a replacement fiduciary is no one named to serve is willing to do the job.

I brought in the opening account papers and 2022 Trust Tax returns showing Trust Tax ID and Titles showing me as Trustee and signatory.

I will add the 3 hours never even got to Trust C… only Trust B

 

[Sigarms]

Oh no… Credit Union has been my only shinning hope and only good things to say about them…

Only two competing thoughts… geographically they are 25 miles away and not wanting to have all my eggs in one basket as it were.

This is a federal credit union. Dad got in when he was in the service and I did the same thing. I honestly thought the world of them until dealing with their estate division after my dad died. No local branches NO WHERE clsoe, and you're dealing with them via email and phone. Try dealing with an email address that could come from ANYONE and you're never dealing with the same person twice on the exact same subject.

After that, I decided I did not want them holding my money.

God forbid you can find a local bank where people know your name. Like I said, our old bank was bought out twice already, and we're fed up with them as well.

 

[ultrarunner]

Thing about a trust is it has to be track of and updated.

Everything was in our sons name, and one night when I asked my wife what happens if we all perish on our family vacation and what happens to our assetts, then a call was made to the lawyer and the trust amended.

You can plan for the future, but if certain individuals are no longer in the equation of the trust, you need to upddate it and try your best to plan accordingly IMO.

I’m still here as well as the two named after me.

Every year mom and I would sit down with moms Estate Lawyer asking if anything needed to be done and he said no…

 

[2manyrocks]

Since you aren't being paid for all this inconvenience due to the terms of the trust, one option is to hire an attorney to deal with the bank, but I'm not sure whether it should be the estate lawyer or a honest to goodness litigation attorney.

 

[2manyrocks]

Although not directly pertinent, they did get fined $37.5 million by the CFPB in 2022. https://www.consumerfinance.gov/enforcement/actions/us-bank-national-association/

 

[ultrarunner]

Although not directly pertinent, they did get fined $37.5 million by the CFPB in 2022. https://www.consumerfinance.gov/enforcement/actions/us-bank-national-association/

On the website it states One of the World's Most Ethical Companies...

Not sure how being trapped in a virtual no interest account is ethical but just my perception...

 

[Omega Woods]

Thanks to everyone on this thread for talking me out of doing a trust.

 

[2manyrocks]

Trusts allow for flexibility to meet certain purposes, but it is no fun being the trustee.

 

[drssg]

I'm sorry to hear that you're having all these difficulties, ultrarunner.

I suspect that the issues are more related to the incompetence of the bank employees than the concept of having a trust.

I was not the executor of my father's estate, but I did not get the impression that my sister had a fraction of the problems you are seeing. Things that were not in the trust were more complicated.

Good luck, and I hope the issues will be wrapped up soon.

 

[ultrarunner]

Thanks to everyone on this thread for talking me out of doing a trust.

Only trying to understand…

Just spoke with retired neighbor and she mentioned it’s been 12 years since her mom passed away and the estate was 98% done in 2 years but one account is still not available…. she is a very smart person but said the bank changed ownership several times and no longer in existence in California…

Maybe gold and silver coins stashed in old ammo cans to pass on?

 

[camshawn]

We had a bank officer backdate a form after my father in law passed away to cover her mistake (it was supposed to have been done prior to his passing). We didn’t say anything as it saved us a lot of money and taxes not paid. We also moved all of our moneys out of that institution over the next few months under the guise of consolidation.

 

[Sigarms]

Thanks to everyone on this thread for talking me out of doing a trust.

I honestly think a trust with propper planning is the way to go.

When my father passed away, what little he had was transfered to myself in less than 6 months with very little headache. After seeing what I didn't have to do since my parents trust was already in place, we double checked becuase we thought we set one up, but it was nothing but a will that my wife and I had when we had no kids. Heck, now even the animals are taken care of in the case of our early demise at the same time.

The reality is anytime someone dies and their are any assetts, it can be a PITA when having to deal with financial institutions. When my FIL passed a couple years ago, the biggest PITA was a trailer (through probate).

This thread made me thin of my own time as an executor for an aunt about 480 miles away from me. No trust, minimal total assetts (under 10K). I had to look because I knew I had posted about the two experiences here on this forum.

options on dealing with a lawyer?

Long story short. March 2006 my aunt died, and I was listed as the executor. My Aunt lived in Pennsylvania, I'm in NC. She was a wonderful woman, but had little money and very few assests. It was not easy trying to handle everything on my end in NC (multiple trips to PA), but I had...

www.tractorbynet.com

What was funny on my end reading this thread from 13 years ago was I forgot to mention the outcome. After the certified letter to the attorney and calling the court house explaining my situation in dealing with this lawyer, everything was finally "settled" about 2 months later.

When my aunt passed away, it was 4 years later and her simple assetts were still not taken care of properly due to a lawyer.

My only suggestion from peronal experience is that whoever you list as your executor, be it a will or an estate, reward the executor handsomely percentage wise of the assetts becaue they are the one person you trust to handle everything properly, and it can always be a gambit that it will be a PITA processs for them (the executor).

We've been blessed were we are out of complete debt (the only debt hanging over us when we got married was our house an land) and have assetts along with the home and land, and there is no way we would trust what we have to a simple will having to go through probate. The biggest area for potential headaches when talking to our own lawyer is when money is to be paid out over years or decades. Also keep in mind, the more speciffic you are with your wishes written down on what is to be done with your belongings, the less hassel it is for the executor when having to deal with the deceased's family.

Even as simple as things were with my father's estate, I still had that dang credit unions estate deparment F everything up even when I did what they told me, understanding what they were telling me to do and I'm scratching my head when they finally realized they F'ed it up when I tried telling them numerous times what they were "paying me" was too much.

 

[2manyrocks]

This is a bank account problem. Usually, I've thought of bank's making mistakes on the loan side of things, but how the heck do they foul up a deposit account by losing their own records? Where are the auditors and regulators?

 

[Sigarms]

This is a bank account problem. Usually, I've thought of bank's making mistakes on the loan side of things, but how the heck do they foul up a deposit account by losing their own records? Where are the auditors and regulators?

If your question was refered to myself, it's all a question of distribution of remaining funds left in my father's account. My father was pulling $1,400 per year ($700 twice a year) for retirement. I told the credit union estate department I was absolutely fine keeping the distribution the same for myself ($1,400 a year, paid twice in the same year). Instead, my first distribution was substantially higher, thus I called to let them know they made a mistake (I actually called about 10 times AND they were paying monthly). I gave up as no one would listen to me and it seemed I never dealt with the same person twice (even via email, same email address, but different people responding which drove me crazy because I never knew who I was dealing with). For better or worse, to be on the safe side, I maxed out on the taxes when I recieved those funds. My only fear is what I have recieve pushes us higher on the tax bracket but I don't think that will be the case.

Now that the credit union only has one more dispearsment to make before the funds are entirely gone, they realized what I was trying to tell them numerous times last year and they made a boo boo. Go figure...

I get 2% cash back on my credit card from the credit union which is paid off monthly. That credit card put 2K towards our California vacation (luckily I use my personal credit card for work, which I get reimbursed for LOL). I'll keep the credit union for the credit card, but that is ALL I will use them from now on.

When my father was living with us, being in his late late 80's, he never used a computer, only used his check book along with statements he recieved in the mail. In today's electronic age, I honestly don't know how older people like my father who live by themselves deal with today's electronic age.

If your question wasn't to myself, forgive the explanation

 

[2manyrocks]

Sorry for the misunderstanding. Although I was referring to ultrarunner's thread, it sounds like the CU messed up your deposit as well and then you also had a bad customer service experience.

 

[newbury]

Fast forward to the present and the interest from all is greatly increased…

Except the interest banks are paying.

God forbid you can find a local bank where people know your name. Like I said, our old bank was bought out twice already, and we're fed up with them as well.

And even if you find it the chances are it will be bought out tomorrow and all the employees "turned over".

Our bank in Mississippi was wonderful up to about 4 years ago.
My wife had been banking there for about 50 years, the manager was an old friend from her high school, (about 1963). When we went to access the safe deposit boxes (family had 4 or so) all the tellers knew that one was off to the side with the numbers barely showing, one had a key that stuck a little bit and you had to jiggle it.
Bank has changed corporate hands twice since 2020, with almost complete turnover of employees, AND CORPORATE KNOWLEDGE each time.

For Ultrarunner it seems the best advice was empty the accounts down to the minimum and ignore them.

I have most of my "flexible savings" in two military Federal Credit unions. Navy seems especially attuned to turnover of employees. Many of the employees seem to be spouses of military.