Moving from 1/2 ton truck to HD truck

[deezler]

Best part about the diesel world is all the friends you make along the way. View attachment 815313

Anyone who does this is a real piece of %^&.

Diesel exhaust particulate matter is a known and proven carcinogen. Intentionally defeating your emissions control just to blast it into someone's face is evil. Coal rollers should go straight to jail.

Sorry, rant over, let's not derail Mule's thread. I'm sure his scorpion 6.7L is running nice and clean, as it was meticulously engineered to do. But all your initial observations about driving a 3/4 ton are part of why I went the other way for my next truck, lol.

 

[Brendanspapa]

I agree with the comments above about stability when towing a heavy trailer, but the more important factor is braking. The 3/4 ton and 1 ton trucks all have bigger brakes, which provide much better stopping power, and more importantly, downhill speed control on long grades. Later model Diesels also have engine braking which provides significant down grade braking.

 

[aaronrkelly]

I was in the same position but needing a bit more load handling....why buy a pickup?

I bought an International 9200 single axle semi with 150k miles on it with the big Cummins and a Eaton 10spd for $18k.

Pulls better then any new HD truck your gonna buy and at 1/4 of the cost.

 

[deezler]

My 2019 1/2 ton has bigger and stronger brakes than my 2003 2500HD did. Plus you really don't need any more pickup braking power when your trailer's brakes are properly functioning and controlled. Which my 1/2 ton also does way better then my 3/4 ton ever did.

The lines are blurry now, IMO.

 

[MGP4506]

Have a very sweet Ram 1500 Hemi truck I got new (leased) last year.

Been thinking about moving up to a HD pickup to make towing my big enclosed trailer easier. Diesel HD trucks are insanely high in price. Even with 150k miles on them, you’re looking at $50k around here. So I opened my search up to gasoline HD trucks as well. I found a 2021 Chevy Silverado 2500HD with the new 6.6 gas engine. Sweet truck, extremely well cared for. Problem is, the 6.6 gas is a 400 HP engine. The axle is a 3.73. The trans is the old 6L90 that’s been around since 2006 and the ratios are really tall. So, I threw that combo into a spreadsheet along side the same info (power, trans ratios, axle ratio) from my Ram 1500. Looks like my Ram has significantly more pulling power in every gear, despite the 3.21 axle ratio. If my truck had the 3.92s it would be a bloodbath. But yeah, power/gearing advantage from 0 to 70 miles per hour. AND my truck is 1,500 lbs. lighter so that increases performance even more over the HD. I get that a HD truck is heavier and therefore in theory should handle/steer better with a trailer but I have a hard time justifying a move up to HD to get worse acceleration, fuel economy, and maneuverability. Sigh…

The Ford gas HD trucks can be had with 430 HP, 10 speed trans, and 4.30 gears which is a stellar combo but they are like finding a needle in a haystack. I can’t find one in my price range anywhere in this entire region.

The Ram HD gas trucks are nice but they seem to be abused on construction sites or work sites and by the time I find them on the used market they’re pretty rough.

"When going to HD trucks, go straight to 1 ton"? That’s what I was thinking too. But I looked up the tow chart from GM’s own website and it is surprising. The 2500 gas can tow more than the 3500 gas (only a couple hundred lbs., likely the difference in weight between the 11.5 and 12.0" axles). The payload gain on the 3500 is less than 500 lbs. If you go diesel then there’s a couple thousand lb. advantage for the 3500, but that’s not really a huge deal either. Surprising though that on the gas trucks the difference between “3/4 ton” and “1 ton” is almost zero on paper.

I had a 2018 F250. I will never own another Ford again after that truck. I do like Dodge and Chevy's. I shied away from dodge years ago due to their rusting issues. I may go back to them if I find they have fixed that issue (Love the Hemmi). Now that being said diesel Vs. gas. It all depends. Will this be your everyday driver and only tow once in a great while? If that is the case, go gas. If it is your work truck and tow / haul everyday diesel would be better but comes with a much higher cost but also with a higher resale value. Now 1/2 ton, 3/4 tone or 1 ton. It all depends on what you tow / haul. Even though the newer trucks have a higher rating than just a few years ago, it is never good to max out your truck (always go up 1 class more than you think you need) I have seen many hotshot trucks broke down because of transmission issues. These drivers by a lower rated truck to try and stay under the 26,000lbs limit. In doing so they overwork their trucks and that is when breakdowns happen.

I hope this helps.

 

[UncleSam]

Why are people so adverse to an older clean Western truck. Like an OBS Chevy or GMC out of Oregon or Idaho with a perfect rust free body, needing slight maintenance and upkeep, those trucks are built 100 times better than anything you can buy new. Furthermore for 8-20 grand you save real money, parts are available and they are easy to repair.

 

[walnutman]

I just shake my head when I see all these brand new fully loaded diesel duallies all over here in Texas. Yea I know, they got money and they do use them. I see huge trailers with cattle, hay, equipment. But the prices if you only need one for occasional hauling and the rest as a grocery getter is insane.

I still have my 2004 Cummins I bought brand new for 39k.
The only emission equipment it had from the factory was a cam that gave a little egr.
No cat, no particulate filter, no DEF. Factory.
Power brakes, power steering, power windows, power door locks, power drivers seat, air conditioning that has never failed, cruise control, nice stereo with steering wheel controls.

One great feature I just love about this truck is you cannot drain the batteries down if you leave something on. The truck automatically times out and shuts all accessories and lights off.

Another thing... some vehicles don't do. my wipers park after shutting them off.

Truck is 18 years old now. She's been through a lot with performance upgrades and plowing snow every winter when we lived in PA. Lots of rust especially the wheel wells and the rockers from the salt.
Pulled a 12k fully loaded enclosed trailer from PA to Texas twice. Pulled like a dream except I didn't do a great job distributing the load so dealing with sway was a pain. (Single wheel)

Dyno's 600hp 1200tq at the rear wheels every time.
Trans never failed but I did have it worked at around 65k went I went from 400hp to 600. Over 200k on the odo.

03 and 04 Cummins did have a tendency to drop a valve seat when you jack them up. Well wouldn't you know.. at about 125k she dropped a valve seat.
$15k later she's a brand new engine (rebuilt) with bigger pistons, new tow cam to eliminate the egr, heavier valve springs, diamond coated injectors from F1, and I just had to have my bigger turbo rebuilt.

Truck is on my lift right now as I'm going over the front end before I put a new set of boots on her.

 

[Shenandoah MF1760]

It's a numbers game and the dealers play it well. All of them, truck, trailer, etc.

I have a "Half Ton Towable" RV that can be towed by an F-150, or 1500 series truck. But only if equipt with very specific options.

If you look at their charts only those trucks occupying a small area, usually way down in a corner are capable. And are typically not the half-ton you own because if you spec'd it out that way you'd have gone to a 3/4 ton.

I generally go with the Mick Jagger method of "Too much, is just about right" when deciding on what to buy. I don't need something failing because I stressed or strained it too much. I have enough trouble keeping my native stupidity in check to worry about design issues in equipment.

 

[Blue Mule]

Pulled a 34' reach 4x4 aerial boom home on a tandem axle equipment trailer this weekend. Used it to get some work done up high on our house. Fascia pieces were loose from recent storms. The F-250 tows like a dream compared to all the 1/2 ton trucks I've had before. I couldn't believe the difference. Truck went to the top OD gear and stayed there. Hills, didn't care. Speed, didn't care. It just cruises in top OD gear with all that weight behind it. Never felt squirrely or out of sorts. Just a drastic difference. Wow.

For work, I love this truck. I have a car to drive the rest of the time.

 

[deezler]

It just cruises in top OD gear with all that weight behind it. Never felt squirrely or out of sorts. Just a drastic difference. Wow.

For work, I love this truck. I have a car to drive the rest of the time.

Awesome! Really great to see you putting it to work right away with some proper jobs. Thanks for updating us.

 

[racer86y]

My 2011 2500 tows good the few times i used it towing.Bought a tuner for it but never turned it up.

 

[Fields_mj]

Have a very sweet Ram 1500 Hemi truck I got new (leased) last year.

Been thinking about moving up to a HD pickup to make towing my big enclosed trailer easier. Diesel HD trucks are insanely high in price. Even with 150k miles on them, you’re looking at $50k around here. So I opened my search up to gasoline HD trucks as well. I found a 2021 Chevy Silverado 2500HD with the new 6.6 gas engine. Sweet truck, extremely well cared for. Problem is, the 6.6 gas is a 400 HP engine. The axle is a 3.73. The trans is the old 6L90 that’s been around since 2006 and the ratios are really tall. So, I threw that combo into a spreadsheet along side the same info (power, trans ratios, axle ratio) from my Ram 1500. Looks like my Ram has significantly more pulling power in every gear, despite the 3.21 axle ratio. If my truck had the 3.92s it would be a bloodbath. But yeah, power/gearing advantage from 0 to 70 miles per hour. AND my truck is 1,500 lbs. lighter so that increases performance even more over the HD. I get that a HD truck is heavier and therefore in theory should handle/steer better with a trailer but I have a hard time justifying a move up to HD to get worse acceleration, fuel economy, and maneuverability. Sigh…

The Ford gas HD trucks can be had with 430 HP, 10 speed trans, and 4.30 gears which is a stellar combo but they are like finding a needle in a haystack. I can’t find one in my price range anywhere in this entire region.

The Ram HD gas trucks are nice but they seem to be abused on construction sites or work sites and by the time I find them on the used market they’re pretty rough.

"When going to HD trucks, go straight to 1 ton"? That’s what I was thinking too. But I looked up the tow chart from GM’s own website and it is surprising. The 2500 gas can tow more than the 3500 gas (only a couple hundred lbs., likely the difference in weight between the 11.5 and 12.0" axles). The payload gain on the 3500 is less than 500 lbs. If you go diesel then there’s a couple thousand lb. advantage for the 3500, but that’s not really a huge deal either. Surprising though that on the gas trucks the difference between “3/4 ton” and “1 ton” is almost zero on paper.

Are you buying a tow vehicle, or a daily driver? You have to choose. That's why I own a 2000 F350 PSD AND a 2007 Camry. The Camry takes me back and forth to work, gets groceries, picks the kids up from practice, ect. The truck hauls the camper, hauls the tractor, hauls firewood, and goes hunting. The truck used to be my daily driver, but when fuel hit $4/gal, the Camry paid for itself in 2 years (I drive around 20K miles/yr).

As far as fuel mileage goes for trucks, my 1994 F150 (straight 6) got 21 mpg on the interstate. My '93 F250 diesel was in the high 17s. My 2000 F350 is in the low 16s, but with a 7 pos chip it was getting close to 18. I've heard rumors of 3/4 ton trucks getting more than 18, but I've never actually seen one do it.

 

[CompShooter]

I have a 2020 3500 6.7. This is my third HD Ram Diesel, 2003 2500 and 2014 3500 previously. They are rock solid. I did a lot of research before my purchases. The biggest mistake I see people make is getting a 2500 instead of 3500.

Now if you're not going to really tow or haul a lot, ok. But your plans may change in a few years and it's better to have the capacity and not use it then not have it and need it.

As a previous poster stated look at the payloads. Most 2500s only have about 2000#. That includes hitch weight, driver, passengers, fuel and everything else in your bed.

My 3500 has a 4000# payload. Night and day. Spend the extra money and time and find a decent 3500 especially if you're going to have it for a while.

 

[CliffordK]

I have a 2013 RAM 1500 4x4 with the 3.6L gas engine, and 8 speed transmission (plus 4 low). It really knows how to downshift to get power.

I work it pretty hard towing (flatbed utility trailer), and am impressed with the performance. Eventually I'll add airbags or helper springs.

I've hit as high as 25 MPG driving empty. Usually around 20 MPG if the trailer is empty, and 13 MPG to 16 MPG with the trailer loaded.

I'll probably try a 5.7L pickup, but I'm not convinced the larger engine is actually needed.

 

[Blue Mule]

I have a 2020 3500 6.7. This is my third HD Ram Diesel, 2003 2500 and 2014 3500 previously. They are rock solid. I did a lot of research before my purchases. The biggest mistake I see people make is getting a 2500 instead of 3500.

Now if you're not going to really tow or haul a lot, ok. But your plans may change in a few years and it's better to have the capacity and not use it then not have it and need it.

As a previous poster stated look at the payloads. Most 2500s only have about 2000#. That includes hitch weight, driver, passengers, fuel and everything else in your bed.

My 3500 has a 4000# payload. Night and day. Spend the extra money and time and find a decent 3500 especially if you're going to have it for a while.

Absolutely you are correct. I looked into this a lot. What I found on the Ford trucks is that F-250 and F-350 are the same truck minus an additional leaf or two in the rear spring pack. Everything else about the trucks are the same. Ford sprinkles the GVWR and trailer towing numbers with magic fairy dust for marketing purposes. In fact, you can option the F-250 to be mechanically identical to the F-350, so the only difference is what they print on the door jamb sticker. It's literally marketing rather than mechanical difference. The Ram trucks are a little different because the rear suspension setup actually changes between 2500 and 3500. But even then the rest of the truck is the same aside from that.

So, since I'm using this truck for personal use only and not commercial, I decided to buy whatever I could find that met my criteria (lowest miles possible, under $45k, crew cab, 4x4, good pulling power) and this F-250 popped up so I jumped on the chance. Previous owner put air bags on it to supplement the leaf springs, which I doubt I will ever need, but since they are there I will never wish I had bought a 1-ton.

 

[Too many Kubotas]

I was in the same position but needing a bit more load handling....why buy a pickup?

I bought an International 9200 single axle semi with 150k miles on it with the big Cummins and a Eaton 10spd for $18k.

Pulls better then any new HD truck your gonna buy and at 1/4 of the cost.

Yep, I bought a 359 Pete in very nice condition for $20K, then made it a single axle.

Ironically, the mileage really wasn't all that different from my current Ram 3500, although the 3406B and 18-speed could pull a whole lot more.

At times I definitely wish I hadn't sold that Pete, but these days I never exceed 39,000 CVWR so the 3500 C&C does the job.

 

[Lineman North Florida]

I have a 2013 RAM 1500 4x4 with the 3.6L gas engine, and 8 speed transmission (plus 4 low). It really knows how to downshift to get power.

I work it pretty hard towing (flatbed utility trailer), and am impressed with the performance. Eventually I'll add airbags or helper springs.

I've hit as high as 25 MPG driving empty. Usually around 20 MPG if the trailer is empty, and 13 MPG to 16 MPG with the trailer loaded.

I'll probably try a 5.7L pickup, but I'm not convinced the larger engine is actually needed.

If you have a gas truck that will get up to 16 MPG with a loaded trailer you better hold on to it because you aren't likely to get that lucky twice.

 

[Too many Kubotas]

If you have a gas truck that will get up to 16 MPG with a loaded trailer you better hold on to it because you aren't likely to get that lucky twice.

Indeed! My '14 1500 with the same engine and trans got similar hwy mileage, but just an empty 16-foot flatbed wiggling around back there sucked it down to about 10 mpg.

Yes, I tried it once, just to prove the obvious to myself; don't tow with a 1/2-ton.

 

[300k]

Have a very sweet Ram 1500 Hemi truck I got new (leased) last year.

Been thinking about moving up to a HD pickup to make towing my big enclosed trailer easier. Diesel HD trucks are insanely high in price. Even with 150k miles on them, you’re looking at $50k around here. So I opened my search up to gasoline HD trucks as well. I found a 2021 Chevy Silverado 2500HD with the new 6.6 gas engine. Sweet truck, extremely well cared for. Problem is, the 6.6 gas is a 400 HP engine. The axle is a 3.73. The trans is the old 6L90 that’s been around since 2006 and the ratios are really tall. So, I threw that combo into a spreadsheet along side the same info (power, trans ratios, axle ratio) from my Ram 1500. Looks like my Ram has significantly more pulling power in every gear, despite the 3.21 axle ratio. If my truck had the 3.92s it would be a bloodbath. But yeah, power/gearing advantage from 0 to 70 miles per hour. AND my truck is 1,500 lbs. lighter so that increases performance even more over the HD. I get that a HD truck is heavier and therefore in theory should handle/steer better with a trailer but I have a hard time justifying a move up to HD to get worse acceleration, fuel economy, and maneuverability. Sigh…

The Ford gas HD trucks can be had with 430 HP, 10 speed trans, and 4.30 gears which is a stellar combo but they are like finding a needle in a haystack. I can’t find one in my price range anywhere in this entire region.

The Ram HD gas trucks are nice but they seem to be abused on construction sites or work sites and by the time I find them on the used market they’re pretty rough.

"When going to HD trucks, go straight to 1 ton"? That’s what I was thinking too. But I looked up the tow chart from GM’s own website and it is surprising. The 2500 gas can tow more than the 3500 gas (only a couple hundred lbs., likely the difference in weight between the 11.5 and 12.0" axles). The payload gain on the 3500 is less than 500 lbs. If you go diesel then there’s a couple thousand lb. advantage for the 3500, but that’s not really a huge deal either. Surprising though that on the gas trucks the difference between “3/4 ton” and “1 ton” is almost zero on paper.

I had a 2005 ram1500 and found it did not have the payload capacity I needed, looking at the frame it was big enough, but the spring were not, I solved this by buying pep boys coil spring helper package and mounting them under the leaf spring mounts, I had increase the hole size to bolt on the springs but that was easy, and I also added a set or Monroe air jackets in place of the originals. I could now haul anything I wanted to without problem so the solution may be you just need to upgrade the springs

 

[Deleted member 371759]

Anyone who does this is a real piece of %^&.

Diesel exhaust particulate matter is a known and proven carcinogen. Intentionally defeating your emissions control just to blast it into someone's face is evil. Coal rollers should go straight to jail.

Sorry, rant over, let's not derail Mule's thread. I'm sure his scorpion 6.7L is running nice and clean, as it was meticulously engineered to do. But all your initial observations about driving a 3/4 ton are part of why I went the other way for my next truck, lol.

Yeah I don't do that. No one rides bikes here.