Moving from 1/2 ton truck to HD truck

[dodge man]

Sounds like you found a good one, post up some pictures when you get it.

 

[jb1390]

Have a very sweet Ram 1500 Hemi truck I got new (leased) last year.

Been thinking about moving up to a HD pickup to make towing my big enclosed trailer easier. Diesel HD trucks are insanely high in price. Even with 150k miles on them, you’re looking at $50k around here. So I opened my search up to gasoline HD trucks as well. I found a 2021 Chevy Silverado 2500HD with the new 6.6 gas engine. Sweet truck, extremely well cared for. Problem is, the 6.6 gas is a 400 HP engine. The axle is a 3.73. The trans is the old 6L90 that’s been around since 2006 and the ratios are really tall. So, I threw that combo into a spreadsheet along side the same info (power, trans ratios, axle ratio) from my Ram 1500. Looks like my Ram has significantly more pulling power in every gear, despite the 3.21 axle ratio. If my truck had the 3.92s it would be a bloodbath. But yeah, power/gearing advantage from 0 to 70 miles per hour. AND my truck is 1,500 lbs. lighter so that increases performance even more over the HD. I get that a HD truck is heavier and therefore in theory should handle/steer better with a trailer but I have a hard time justifying a move up to HD to get worse acceleration, fuel economy, and maneuverability. Sigh…

The Ford gas HD trucks can be had with 430 HP, 10 speed trans, and 4.30 gears which is a stellar combo but they are like finding a needle in a haystack. I can’t find one in my price range anywhere in this entire region.

The Ram HD gas trucks are nice but they seem to be abused on construction sites or work sites and by the time I find them on the used market they’re pretty rough.

"When going to HD trucks, go straight to 1 ton"? That’s what I was thinking too. But I looked up the tow chart from GM’s own website and it is surprising. The 2500 gas can tow more than the 3500 gas (only a couple hundred lbs., likely the difference in weight between the 11.5 and 12.0" axles). The payload gain on the 3500 is less than 500 lbs. If you go diesel then there’s a couple thousand lb. advantage for the 3500, but that’s not really a huge deal either. Surprising though that on the gas trucks the difference between “3/4 ton” and “1 ton” is almost zero on paper.

Lot more to towing than straight forward acceleration at full throttle. That is all your spreadsheet will show, and even then, you are assuming full HP at all times, which is not the case.

I believe one of the reasons towing with a diesel is so nice is that the torque curve is low. Even if the peak power isn't better than a gas truck, you don't need to drop several gears and rev it up to get your power. So on paper a gas and diesel will look close, in real life they feel nothing alike.

Whether an HD truck is right for you, who knows? But I would spend some time seat of the pants testing before coming to a conclusion.

 

[paulsharvey]

How about a Nissian Titan 5.0 Cummins? Very fast Google search shows 12000 lbs towing (gooseneck) and 555 ft/lbs of torque. I dont think the Nissians are going to be $40k for a 5 year old truck, probably more like $20k, and seems to tick your boxes.

 

[Sprinkler Fitter]

How about a Nissian Titan 5.0 Cummins? Very fast Google search shows 12000 lbs towing (gooseneck) and 555 ft/lbs of torque. I dont think the Nissians are going to be $40k for a 5 year old truck, probably more like $20k, and seems to tick your boxes.

He already bought a ford diesel.

 

[Blue Mule]

You picked a solid truck; that said, they do have their own gremlins and some are rather unique. If you've not checked out a Ford forum yet, consider Ford Truck Enthusiasts; I found it a great resource.

I've been on that forum since 2002. Good place for info.

 

[Hay Dude]

Lot more to towing than straight forward acceleration at full throttle. That is all your spreadsheet will show, and even then, you are assuming full HP at all times, which is not the case.

I believe one of the reasons towing with a diesel is so nice is that the torque curve is low. Even if the peak power isn't better than a gas truck, you don't need to drop several gears and rev it up to get your power. So on paper a gas and diesel will look close, in real life they feel nothing alike.

Whether an HD truck is right for you, who knows? But I would spend some time seat of the pants testing before coming to a conclusion.

Thats exactly what a diesel does better. It make more torque at lower RPM than gas. Thats also why they get better fuel economy. The torque curve is flatter, too.

My 6.7L Cummins pulls anything I want under 2600RPM. Even a 450HP big block gasser would need 5000RPM and still not pull as much.

I’ll take 350/850 over 450/600 7 days a week.

 

[paulsharvey]

In all honesty, we all overthink these specs. How much Hp/torque did a F350 with a straight 6 cylinder 300ci have? They certainly didn't win a interstate on ramp drag race, but people have been pulling trailers for more than the last 20 years.

Btw Congrats on the new truck.

 

[jb1390]

Thats exactly what a diesel does better. It make more torque at lower RPM than gas. Thats also why they get better fuel economy. The torque curve is flatter, too.

My 6.7L Cummins pulls anything I want under 2600RPM. Even a 450HP big block gasser would need 5000RPM and still not pull as much.

I’ll take 350/850 over 450/600 7 days a week.

We have a 2018 GMC Terrain Diesel, it's the only year they offered the vehicle with the 1.6. Horsepower is listed at 137 hp or something like that. It's anemic on paper. But real world driving, it feels more powerful than the 250 hp gas turbo model, and doesn't hunt gears near as much. If you are driving like a bat out of hell then the 2.0 turbo gas is faster, but that's not how most people drive most of the time.

Concur with your preference of 350/850.

 

[two_bit_score]

Have a very sweet Ram 1500 Hemi truck I got new (leased) last year.

Been thinking about moving up to a HD pickup to make towing my big enclosed trailer easier. Diesel HD trucks are insanely high in price. Even with 150k miles on them, you’re looking at $50k around here. So I opened my search up to gasoline HD trucks as well. I found a 2021 Chevy Silverado 2500HD with the new 6.6 gas engine. Sweet truck, extremely well cared for. Problem is, the 6.6 gas is a 400 HP engine. The axle is a 3.73. The trans is the old 6L90 that’s been around since 2006 and the ratios are really tall. So, I threw that combo into a spreadsheet along side the same info (power, trans ratios, axle ratio) from my Ram 1500. Looks like my Ram has significantly more pulling power in every gear, despite the 3.21 axle ratio. If my truck had the 3.92s it would be a bloodbath. But yeah, power/gearing advantage from 0 to 70 miles per hour. AND my truck is 1,500 lbs. lighter so that increases performance even more over the HD. I get that a HD truck is heavier and therefore in theory should handle/steer better with a trailer but I have a hard time justifying a move up to HD to get worse acceleration, fuel economy, and maneuverability. Sigh…

The Ford gas HD trucks can be had with 430 HP, 10 speed trans, and 4.30 gears which is a stellar combo but they are like finding a needle in a haystack. I can’t find one in my price range anywhere in this entire region.

The Ram HD gas trucks are nice but they seem to be abused on construction sites or work sites and by the time I find them on the used market they’re pretty rough.

"When going to HD trucks, go straight to 1 ton"? That’s what I was thinking too. But I looked up the tow chart from GM’s own website and it is surprising. The 2500 gas can tow more than the 3500 gas (only a couple hundred lbs., likely the difference in weight between the 11.5 and 12.0" axles). The payload gain on the 3500 is less than 500 lbs. If you go diesel then there’s a couple thousand lb. advantage for the 3500, but that’s not really a huge deal either. Surprising though that on the gas trucks the difference between “3/4 ton” and “1 ton” is almost zero on paper.

Then keep what you have and drive carefully. I would remind you that every day you drive a paid off truck you are making money.

 

[Hay Dude]

In all honesty, we all overthink these specs. How much Hp/torque did a F350 with a straight 6 cylinder 300ci have? They certainly didn't win a interstate on ramp drag race, but people have been pulling trailers for more than the last 20 years.

Btw Congrats on the new truck.

Maybe 180?
Those trucks were slow as dirt and might pull a 10K trailer downhill with a tailwind on a good day.

Guy I used to work for had late 80’s-early 90’s F-350 stake body with either a 351 or a 360 in it. Man what a freakin turd that thing was. It was the only truck I ever drove that had to be downshifted going uphill empty.

 

[sd455dan]

OP Congrats on the New Super Duty.

is it still in warranty with those miles, or if not possible to buy an extended warranty that covers the CP4?

If so it might be worth consideration for some extra protection long term.

 

[sd455dan]

Maybe 180?
Those trucks were slow as dirt and might pull a 10K trailer downhill with a tailwind on a good day.

Guy I used to work for had late 80’s-early 90’s F-350 stake body with either a 351 or a 360 in it. Man what a freakin turd that thing was. It was the only truck I ever drove that had to be downshifted going uphill empty.

Have to agree Had an F 700 with the 361 what a dog.
we started with a F250 with the 352 2 barrel - reliable as an anvil but gutless, put in a 390 four barrel T bird engine, MPG and power went up. Later had a long bed F 250 with a warmed over 460 and also a fairly stock dually Chev with the 454. I liked them both the Ford 460 did better on MPG. They both towed OK for gas trucks.


Congrats again to the OP on a Newer diesel truck for towing, May it serve you well Whole nother Level from an older Gas truck for towing.

 

[wolc123]

Those 6 liters were bullet proof - many go past 300,000 miles. My 2010 has 276,000 and still has power. Hard on gas sometimes but the payment is right

That’s good to know. I haven’t bought a new truck yet this millennium, but the one I bought new on the last year of the last one, and another “Florida truck” made that same year that I got used, are both still going strong:

Neither has turned 100k yet, so I should be good to go another 40 years.

 

[tacticalturnip]

That’s good to know. I haven’t bought a new truck yet this millennium, but the one I bought new on the last year of the last one, and another “Florida truck” made that same year that I got used, are both still going strong:


Neither has turned 100k yet, so I should be good to go another 40 years.

Those are both very good looking, and well taken care of trucks. I'm a big fan of that generation, and while the ones I owned were a few years newer, they weren't much different. The only thing that takes them out of commission early is rust, or that's been my experience.

 

[sd455dan]

My Dodge 2500 2003 5.9 averaged 15.3 mpg pulling between
10k to 12k camper going from Big Spring, TX to Salena, Colarado
and 200 miles speed was up and down from 15 to 45 mph. Now
have no need for it and just fixing it up to sell with an enclosed 14 ft
trailer.

willy

edit: You should have No trouble finding a buyer.

That Should make a Great Dodge Heavy Duty for someone Willy

2003 are the Highly desirable first year "Unicorn" 3rd gen Common Rail Cummins with no emissions devices.

One of the best Cummins years for MPG as well.

 

[tacticalturnip]

That Should make a Great Non emissions Cummins powered Dodge Heavy Duty for someone Willy

It really would; you can tell just from his posts Willy takes pride in maintaining his tractor and I wouldn't expect any different of his truck.

 

[wolc123]

Those are both very good looking, and well taken care of trucks. I'm a big fan of that generation, and while the ones I owned were a few years newer, they weren't much different. The only thing that takes them out of commission early is rust, or that's been my experience.

The other side of the 4x4 in front don’t look as good. 20 years of upstate NY winters, where they use tons of road salt, took its toll on that one. When the frame rusted to the point, where it wouldn’t safely haul my truck camper (or pass state inspection) I was going to pull the tags and use it as a “field vehicle”.

My recently retired father in law asked if he could have it, to use as a plow truck, up at his new home in the mountains. He pulled the box off, got the frame welded up, and did a little body work on it. He also uses it for hauling firewood in the summer up there. I use it for hunting when I visit in the fall. It passes inspection now and is still “on the road”. The air conditioner finally quit last year.

The 2wd, extended cab model in the back was his brother in laws, and that one always wintered in Florida. When I bought it (paid him $5k for it) (4) years ago with 60k miles on it, there wasn’t a spot of rust on it. I learned my lesson about the rust on the other one. I’ve had this one treated with “Carwell” rust-proofing every other year and it remains rust free even though we do use it a little in the winter.

It handles my camper a little better than the 4x4 did and is the top of the line “camper special” model with all the options, 2 batteries, etc.. We just had the camper on it for a vacation last week. The 4x4 is the base model with hand crank windows , plastic floor covers and AC as the only “option”. I also like the 2wd better for hauling my Farmall Cub, where the lower height is an advantage for loading. The 8 ft boxes on both of them fits that tractor like a glove.

 

[tacticalturnip]

That's so crazy, seeing the Cub in the bed of a pickup; I wouldn't believe it would fit if I wasn't looking at it.

That is, without a doubt, a perfect fit.

 

[Lineman North Florida]

That's so crazy, seeing the Cub in the bed of a pickup; I wouldn't believe it would fit if I wasn't looking at it.

That is, without a doubt, a perfect fit.

Me either, I bet a lot of people have to look twice.

 

[wolc123]

Me either, I bet a lot of people have to look twice.

That’s why I got a Cub instead of a Super A. I hate trailers and my parents farm is 20 miles away from our’s. The Cub only goes about 11 mph at wide open throttle in 3rd gear. It would take me most of a day to drive it over there and back, but I can get it over there in just over 20 minutes, in the bed of the truck.

They have a perfect spot to unload over there. I just back up to the raised sand-filter septic system in their front yard. I was getting some looks while loading up from the folks shopping for chainsaws and lawn-mowers at the dealer’s shop across the street.

The Cub, even with loaded rear tires, must be considerably lighter than my 8 ft camper, because the truck handles better in the turns with it on back.