Anyone go from gas to electric, then back to gas?

[1428v]

I was wondering one day how much battery power would I need to equal a gallon of gas.

One of the simpler way to calculate this is using Brake Specific Fuel Consumption which is typically around
.5 lbs/hp/hr for gasoline.

6.2 lbs per gallon. So 6.2/.5 gives 12.4 horsepower-hours per gallon.

One hp is of course 746 watts. 12.4 horsepower-hours times 746 watt/hp gives 9250 watt/hrs.
Or 9250 watt/hrs per gallon of gasoline.

A 4ah battery has 240wh of capacity.

https://support.dewalt.com/hc/en-us/articles/360017617497-What-are-the-specifications-for-the-FLEXVOLT-batteries-

So...9,250/240 = 38.5. This means it would take 38.5 of the 4ah batteries to equal a gallon of gas. Damn.

That math does not compute on any scale of work.

Yes it does on some hand tools, but for something that takes longer than 15 minutes of use...gas is still better.

Now figure in how much of that energy is useless as waste heat, etc.

 

[hunt4570]

I think this is not so simple. You omit all the extraction, processing, and transportation of fossil fuels from this equation, and don’t factor in what power on the grid is from solar, wind, etc., which will vary a lot depending on where you are.

That said, I can’t imagine it makes a lot of difference either way with the kinds of small tools we’re talking about. I think most people on this discussion thread are coming from the perspective of which kind of tool works well for which kinds of jobs, not environmental impact.

Agreed, but you were the one touting "no emissions"..

 

[jjp8182]

Never got rid of my gas ones even though I don't use them that often.

The battery string trimmer is just so much easier for my most frequent uses - where it's usually intermittent trimming around mailboxes and sign posts while I'm mowing. Just a lot easier/quicker to stop the tractor and trim while I'm already there than go back to trim after mowing. Having said that when I'm going to trim along fence lines or use the trimmer to "mow" an area I'm going to go with the gas version.

For most pruning I've stopped using chainsaws altogether and will use a battery powered reciprocating saw with an appropriate blade (pruning for live wood, standard wood/demo blade for dead wood). Though here again if I need to start dropping larger trees I've still got the gas chainsaw.

However with more cordless compressors, and general power packs capable of running higher current corded tools I've started looking more at pneumatic and corded tools.

So I guess I've found a mix of different tools that do what I need - and I appreciate that some electric tools (corded and cordless) are getting better sealing/design for use in less than ideal environments as I can't/don't always stop for rain.

 

[Snobdds]

Now figure in how much of that energy is useless as waste heat, etc.

I can't think of a way to calculate this since dewalt or any battery company dosen't publishes their efficiency %.

I know you don't get 240wh out of a 4ah battery. But exactly how much I don't know.

 

[chim]

I was wondering one day how much battery power would I need to equal a gallon of gas.

One of the simpler way to calculate this is using Brake Specific Fuel Consumption which is typically around
.5 lbs/hp/hr for gasoline.

6.2 lbs per gallon. So 6.2/.5 gives 12.4 horsepower-hours per gallon.

One hp is of course 746 watts. 12.4 horsepower-hours times 746 watt/hp gives 9250 watt/hrs.
Or 9250 watt/hrs per gallon of gasoline.

A 4ah battery has 240wh of capacity.

https://support.dewalt.com/hc/en-us/articles/360017617497-What-are-the-specifications-for-the-FLEXVOLT-batteries-

So...9,250/240 = 38.5. This means it would take 38.5 of the 4ah batteries to equal a gallon of gas. Damn.

That math does not compute on any scale of work.

Yes it does on some hand tools, but for something that takes longer than 15 minutes of use...gas is still better.

Interesting. Let me throw something else into the mix. A gallon of gas around here is $3.89 and a gallon of electricity is about $0.63.

 

[Gord Baker]

I have a big box full of Makita Drills saws, etc. Drills are always good for 1 and a half holes. Batteries cost more than a new Drill.
Whitby Office will not help. So much for Brand Loyalty.

 

[Snobdds]

Interesting. Let me throw something else into the mix. A gallon of gas around here is $3.89 and a gallon of electricity is about $0.63.

9,250 wh = 9.25kwh

9.25 * .63 = $5.83. In the example above, it would cost $5.83 to charge 38.5 4ah batteries at your cost.

$5.83 > $3.89.

Gas so far is cheaper and more efficient.

 

[1428v]

Agreed, but you were the one touting "no emissions"..

Not me! Although I don’t miss the two stroke exhaust.

 

[hunt4570]

Not me! Although I don’t miss the two stroke exhaust.

Yes, this was you...

I'm a homeowner with a 16 acre property. Last summer I bought EGO electric power equipment, including a ZTR mower, leaf blower, and weed whacker. I also own a New Holland 33HP diesel tractor with a flail mower attached, a Stihl chainsaw, and a Stihl weed wacker (string trimmer). Short answer? I don't foresee going back.

In my opinion, the EGO weed wacker is far superior to the Stihl gas-powered weed waker. The EGO tool starts more easily, is a little quieter, emits no fumes ... and is very powerful. No more messing around with fuel mixing. I have not kept careful track of how long it runs on a charge, but this hasn't been much of an issue for me. Maybe it would be for a lawn care pro.

The electric blower is the only blower I've ever owned, so I cannot compare it to gas blowers. It is very powerful.

The ZTR mower? More of a mixed bag. I don't use my diesel rig much anymore, except to cut very tall grass and brush. The ZTR is quieter, quite powerful, emits no fumes, and is far more maneuverable. I love not having to mess with fuel. But then ... it has virtually no suspension other than what's under the seat. So it's a pretty jarring ride. And I do worry about getting it serviced when the time comes. It is very expensive for what you get, and about half that cost probably is tied up in the batteries (not in an otherwise better mower). I'm not unhappy I bought it, and on balance do prefer using it to using the diesel tractor and flail mower.

One nice benefit of the electric equipment is that I can use the batteries during a power outage. EGO sells a battery powered generator that accepts the power tool batteries, and also less expensive devices that can be used with a single battery to power a laptop, recharge a smart phone, etc.

 

[wickemite]

I jumped in on the electric blower, chainsaw and weed wacker eagerly, thinking they would replace the Stihl gas pieces I previously run.ben there.
Fast forward to today and I am once again back to my Stihl gas blower, Stihl gas weed walkers and never really left my Stihl & makita gas chainsaws.
The electric tools are all 60V DeWalt. Nothing wrong with them. They all work fine, but after running both in a commercial business for 2+ years, I really only use the electric weed wacker periodically for light jobs I know will be done in under 15 minutes.

Not disappointed, just have found gas revs higher & keeps running when far away from the truck for hours on a full tank. Gas chainsaws are screamers and will cut circles around the electric. Electric only really good for quick 10 minute pruning jobs. Gas blower just keeps on running & running.

Anyone else try electric, go back to gas?

Yes, been there, tried those electric things , tossed them in the corner out of sight. Electric works and ok for the not too serious about work types, however if one wants to get anything done and efficiently, then it is back to the gas models.

 

[1428v]

Yes, this was you...

Not that this really matters at all, but no, that was another member.

 

[chim]

9,250 wh = 9.25kwh

9.25 * .63 = $5.83. In the example above, it would cost $5.83 to charge 38.5 4ah batteries at your cost.

$5.83 > $3.89.

Gas so far is cheaper and more efficient.

I'm glad I don't have the same power supplier as you do (but we did have an increase I forgot about). I just checked our most recent bill and the rate is $0.0839 per KWH. That computes to nearly $0.78.

The cost of a gallon of gas would be enough to charge about 5 batteries.

 

[Snobdds]

I'm glad I don't have the same power supplier as you do (but we did have an increase I forgot about). I just checked our most recent bill and the rate is $0.0839 per KWH. That computes to nearly $0.78.

The cost of a gallon of gas would be enough to charge about 5 batteries.

I was using your number.

 

[Grumpycat]

One thing I've learned about electrics is that, if you don't keep the batteries charged ALWAYS, you're going to be needing a new one soon.
So, if you go electric, keep them plugged in.

EGo 56V batteries have a lot of smarts built in. If left to sit a month on full charge they will intentionally self-discharge to 50% and stay there a year or more. 50% is the optimal long storage SOC for lithium-ion.

 

[Grumpycat]

Interesting. Let me throw something else into the mix. A gallon of gas around here is $3.89 and a gallon of electricity is about $0.63.

You are getting screwed. This site says the average residential cost is $0.1753 in Lancaster County, PA.

Electric Rates & Providers in Lancaster County, PA

See how electric rates in Lancaster, Ephrata, and Elizabethtown which range between 0-0.175/kWH compare to national electric rates.

findenergy.com

 

[RammerJammer]

Gas? Generators. Vehicles. Tractors.

Electric? Tools.

I started with those Makita 9.6-volt tools. Nah.

Went to 12-volt, 14.4 volt and, finally, 18-volt Ryobi in the blue battery days. Better. But, still Ni-Cads at the time. Then, Lithium. MUCH better in durability, performance and life span. Just had a 2015 era 18-volt battery fail. Still have older ones which are operational. Not necessarily "new" performance but usable.

My 40-volt blowers run rings around 18-volt ones. Wife uses 18-volt blower and trimmer. Fine for her needs. As is the 2014 4-AH battery which she says, "Never seems to run down" before she does.

I have an 18-inch, 40-volt mower for small stuff. Got it cheap with battery/charger. Works great. (You may be asking: So, what do you use for the big jobs, Electric Boy? See, that's just it - I don't. The guy that shows up every other week to cut our small "acreage" handles that!)

I recently cut down and removed two 30-inch trees (Oak) which were 60 feet tall. No gas involved. Used a Ryobi 40-volt, 18-inch saw, a couple of 120-volt saws and a modified Harbor Freight corded pole saw - added an 14 inch bar to it. Threw in an 18-volt Ryobi reciprocating saw now and then.

The battery powered manlift has power in the bucket - That Harbor Freight pole saw allowed me to be "away from the action" without having to worry with starting, fuel or batteries. It's also great for bucking/limbing on the ground - NO bending over. One of mine is 11 years old and has been through hell - Even strapped to a piece of fence top-rail and hauled up into a tree, on a rope, to cut some 25 foot high limbs a time or three! (You need a helper to plug/unplug it on command, though. And, the ability to judge/dodge falling limbs!)

Even rigged up a 2000 watt inverter to mount on the brush-guard of my tractor so that Harbor Freight saw can go anywhere the tractor can.

Yes, I have a couple of gas chainsaws. They may not have been started this century, though.

Electric tools are much quieter, no smoke (most of the time!) and, as someone else said, always start.

Sure. You have to take care of the batteries. And, running them all the way to "flat" is not taking care of them, based on my experience. In some instances, doing so will reduce their voltage to the point where a "smart" charger may not "see" them. Thus, no charge. Whose fault is that? At least, partially, the operator's.

I fully agree that electric tools have their limitations. Batteries are not cheap. Cords are an inconvenience. And, they are, generally, not as powerful as some gas models. But, they definitely have their place if you plan your work properly, have sufficient charged batteries and operate efficiently. When I used an 18-volt blower for a while, I became a much more efficient operator. Plus, for folks, like me, who really don't want to work 8 or 10 hours continuously anyway, those sympathetic, little batteries tend to run down before I do. Break time! And, regarding non-battery tools: Yes, my Milwaukee corded Sawzall has a really smooth cutting action. Battery circular saws do need help from corded ones now and then on deeper/longer cuts. And, if my job was cutting trees, I'd need a gas saw or two.

Battery prices? High? Buy on sale or in package deals. I've found several opportunities where a tool/charger/battery could be bought for less than the cost of buying the battery separately. Yes, that sounds crazy, but I have the receipts.

And, manufacturers do play games with battery voltage: 18, 19.2, 20, 21 or whatever all have the same number of cells in series with the same intrinsic voltage. (Same deal with 18 versus 40 volt batteries. If 18 is "right" for 5 cells in series, why isn't 36 "right" for 10 in series?) There ought to be a law . . .

One other point: I have tried to stick with one manufacturer due to battery interchangeability. I can think of only one battery tool that I use regularly which doesn't use Ryobi batteries: A small Craftsman multi-tool which uses a mini 12-volt battery. Everything else electric is 18 or 40 volt Ryobi or line powered. I kinda lucked out with Ryobi in that their battery form-factor has remained constant in the 18-volt realm. That has been a huge plus.

Now, I see that Ryobi is getting into 'miniature' 4-volt, USB lithium batteries. Might be OK for some things but there's an obvious limit to stuff like that.

By the way, I have had exactly one 18-volt and later Ryobi tool to become unusable - A little 18-volt blower (they describe as a "sweeper") had a cracked blower wheel hub. And, of course, several batteries have croaked over 15 years or so. (Whoops - Check that. The 18-volt tools came out in 1996! Time flies, doesn't it?) The rest may "die" tomorrow. If so, they've served me well in convenience, performance, longevity, durability, etc. And, I've never had to replace a single starter rope! YMMV.

 

[Grumpycat]

Intellectuals can do the math until they are blue in the face. All that matters is real world application.

An EGo 56V 7.5Ah battery will almost mow my lawn on one charge.

Previously a Snapper Ninja 21SP mower with B&S engine could almost mow the lawn on 38 oz (1.2 quarts) of gasoline.

56 * 7.5 = 420 Wh, it probably doesn't have that much, but we'll use this number anyway. And considering I stop before the battery is fully discharged.

Will allow 15% charging losses. So
0.420 kWh * $0.010/kWh * 1.15 = $0.483

At $0.10/kWh it costs $0.483 or 4.8¢ to mow the lawn.

At $3.249/gallon the cost is $0.9747, or 20 times what the battery electric got the job done with.

EPA tries to pull a similar game by rating EVs with "MPGe" based on the kWh heat content of gasoline vs kWh from the power grid. An intellectual game, doesn't matter in the real world. In the real world we understand MPG$, the cost per mile for fuel. I've said it many times, the dollar is the only honest metric of resource consumption. Every man demands fair payment for every contribution toward the final product, these payments accumulate and are reflected in the final price whether it is gasoline or electricity.

 

[RammerJammer]

Forgot I had this before/after photo of the Harbor Freight pole saw. Sort of a Big D and Little D thing, huh?

 

[Rbertalotto]

I'm on my third electric garden tractor and I'll never go back to Petro......The huge power, the lack of noise, the zero maintenance, The "It ALWAYS" starts, Simply nothing like it for a smaller property that only needs a few hours of run time.....Check out my youtube channel; to see it running.....https://youtu.be/LG7G7R7p-JI

 

[Rbertalotto]

Electric tractor walk around....https://youtu.be/LG7G7R7p-JI