Banking… how things have changed

[tradosaurus]

Cash is going away. Sooner than you think.
Merely depositing or withdrawing large sums of cash can have you labeled as a potential criminal.

It ain't your fathers USA anymore. Freedom is vanishing quickly

I had an economics professor say back in the mid 90's that the only reason the US dollar has worth is the confidence people have in it. Other than that it's worthless.

 

[D&D]

I see this happening here. At my last visit to my branch, my friendly albeit a bit wacky branch manager pushed me into adding the “zelle” feature to my phone. I do think this is the way we will all be pushed into transferring money. It’s all digital. Just a few keystrokes and the money is sent. Banks can easily track what you are doing.
The amounts you can wire are pretty high, 10’s of thousands. There’s no “wire transfer fee”.

This is the wave of the future. Cash is going away. Our money was once backed by at least some gold. Then it was backed by special paper made in a mint.

Now it’s backed by?????

banks are pushing electronic banking because its more profitable for them (unemployed staff, not their problem) retail is pushing self serve everything because it’s more profitable for them (unemployed staff, not their problem) multi family housing is being pushed because it’s more profitable for them, insurance industry pushing for online transactions and documentation, more profitable for them (unemployed staff, not their problem) and the list goes on.

We are the only thing standing in their way. All we have to do is say “no thanks, I’ll wait for a real person”. Alas, too often we give in because we think it’s making our lives better when in fact, it only makes their lives more profitable.

 

[TN8Man]

They cannot track or control cash so it has to go. Anything that cannot be controlled will go away. All part of the progression.

Progression to control the people more. Look at China.

 

[jyoutz]

I had an economics professor say back in the mid 90's that the only reason the US dollar has worth is the confidence people have in it. Other than that it's worthless.

Very true. A dollar has no intrinsic value. No currency does. And in fact, neither does gold. A shiny metal that is mostly good for jewelry. You can’t eat or use either for a useful purpose; they has value because most people accept them for trade.

 

[Sprinkler Fitter]

The pandemic certainly curtailed banking with many local branches closed over a year and by appointment when reopened until fairly recently.

Banks are again open but making cash and/or “Large” deposit is not business as usual and now cause for extra scrutiny and holds up to 15 days… crazy when computers are able speed operations in the blink of an eye.

I still run my small property management company of 40 years and rent is typically paid by check or electronic transfer… or cash if rent in arrears or past check with issues

By law up to 3 years unpaid pandemic rent cannot be reason for eviction.

I have been doing business for over 50 years with Bank of America and US Bank… never a bounced check drawn on any of my accounts ever.

One of my very behind tenants sold his car and gave me $3,000 in cash on 14k back rent he owes.

Went to deposit at my branch and it took the branch manager approval to accept the cash deposit to my Property Management Business Account with the reason being a crackdown on cash deposits…???

“Cash is King” seems to no longer be the case…

The Bank also gave me a printed notice that a Account Hold may be placed on accounts where total deposited checks total more than $5,525 in a day…

On a related note I deposited my personal check of $2500 to a family joint account to cover up coming estate incidental expenses without issue and later that day received this email stating:

$2,500.00
Hold reason:	A 15 day hold was placed on your check(s) because check specific information indicates item may be returned

Interesting times we live and nothing gets easier when running a business…

It must be because you are at a bigger name bank in my opinion.

We bank at Bremer Bank, don’t know how big they are but there are a bunch in Minnesota. We own a food truck and go in regularly with a few thousand in cash and never have a question asked. Even during the supposed pandemic when everyone said there is a coin shortage, we would buy $100 worth of quarters every couple weeks to make change and never had a problem at our bank.

Yesterday we went in with $5000 in 20s and asked if we could trade them for hundreds my wife was in and out of there in five minutes

 

[tradosaurus]

Very true. A dollar has no intrinsic value. No currency does. And in fact, neither does gold. A shiny metal that is mostly good for jewelry. You can’t eat or use either for a useful purpose; they has value because most people accept them for trade.

The dollar use to have intrinsic value when it was backed by gold.
n 1971, US President Richard Nixon removed the US dollar from the Gold standard.
The US Dollar became a fiat currency that is now supported by its current connection to oil (petro-dollar).
And as Muammar Gaddafi learned, never try to get off the petro dollar.

 

[Snobdds]

Try multiplying 100 by 0.03 instead.

That will give a result which is 3% of 100.

AKA the number 3.

Now if you’re trying to consume the amount you started with (100) by means of a 3% fee, then use that number (3) to divide the original amount:

100 divided by 3 = 33.33

Not 3,333.33 …

If a bank charges 3% per trans action...and there is $100.

How many transactions before that $100 is $0?

Again...100/.03 = 3,333.33. Check the math, it should be the inverse. .03*3,333 = $100

This is not hard. BTW...3% = .03.

But I'm glad you tried.

 

[jyoutz]

The dollar use to have intrinsic value when it was backed by gold.
n 1971, US President Richard Nixon removed the US dollar from the Gold standard.
The US Dollar became a fiat currency that is now supported by its current connection to oil (petro-dollar).
And as Muammar Gaddafi learned, never try to get off the petro dollar.

I understand that. I’m just pointing out that even gold really has no “intrinsic value.” It is only valuable because society says it is.

 

[ultrarunner]

It must be because you are at a bigger name bank in my opinion.

We bank at Bremer Bank, don’t know how big they are but there are a bunch in Minnesota. We own a food truck and go in regularly with a few thousand in cash and never have a question asked. Even during the supposed pandemic when everyone said there is a coin shortage, we would buy $100 worth of quarters every couple weeks to make change and never had a problem at our bank.

Yesterday we went in with $5000 in 20s and asked if we could trade them for hundreds my wife was in and out of there in five minutes

It's been about 3 years since the hospital went cashless...

It was done for a number of reasons but still issues arise when a patient arrives with cash at 5:30am and denied service.

Being cashless means no more daily cash pick ups, no more making change and no more large amounts of cash on hand and no more counterfeit issues as few as there were but recall when one patient became irate when a $100 bill suspected of being counterfeit.

Some deductibles and copays are over 10k with first of the year several thousand being typical and then some procedures are not covered by insurance.

So credit card, debit card, check, cashier's check or money order... if collected day of service...

 

[Snobdds]

I understand that. I’m just pointing out that even gold really has no “intrinsic value.” It is only valuable because society says it is.

That is everything though...

Value is only derived once society as a whole says it's valuable. It's no coincidence that things of rarity automatically hold value since the supply is low. Which brings us to how prices are set via the supply and demand for that item.

 

[Hay Dude]

Very true. A dollar has no intrinsic value. No currency does. And in fact, neither does gold. A shiny metal that is mostly good for jewelry. You can’t eat or use either for a useful purpose; they has value because most people accept them for trade.

Guess that’s why the last time gold was confiscated, the government gave money for it???
Man are you sadly misinformed.
Gold has been a currency of value for thousands of years and will continue to be long after this 32 trillion in debt country is in the ash heap of history with the Roman Empire

 

[tradosaurus]

I understand that. I’m just pointing out that even gold really has no “intrinsic value.” It is only valuable because society says it is.

Society has been putting a value on gold since the dawn of man.

The dollar used to backed by this value. Now the dollar is worthless but shhhhhhhhhhh...don't tell anyone.

 

[Torvy]

Non-fiat money has specific characteristics. Various things have been used throughout history as currency. To be used as currency, a substance must have these characteristics: Portability, Durability, Divisibility, uniformity and limited supply. Some would also add Acceptabilty, but that is self evident and not inherent to the substance.

Gold has many uses besides jewelry. That is one reason it (and other precious metals) have retained their status as media of exchange. Salt, shells, corn and the like all lacked at least one characteristic of money.

 

[Jstpssng]

Society has been putting a value on gold since the dawn of man.

The dollar used to backed by this value. Now the dollar is worthless but shhhhhhhhhhh...don't tell anyone.

Even gold has to be turned into currency before being used for most applications.
The dollar is worth what it is because historically we stood in back of it. Ever since WWII it’s been the most reliable currency available.

 

[rswyan]

This is not hard.

Correct - it isn't.

However, it appears that decimal places are hard ... at least for some.

BTW...3% = .03.

Q: What is 3% of a dollar ?

A: 0.03 or 3 cents

Q: What is 3% of $100.00 ?

A: Also 0.03 (of the whole number) ... or $3.00

Q: If you remove 3% of the original $100 repeatedly, how many times does it take to reduce the original amount to zero ?

A: 33.33

But I'm glad you tried.

And you get a cookie.

 

[Snobdds]

Correct - it isn't.

However, it appears that decimal places are hard ... at least for some.



Q: What is 3% of a dollar ?

A: 0.03 or 3 cents

Q: What is 3% of $100.00 ?

A: Also 0.03 (of the whole number) ... or $3.00

Q: If you remove 3% of the original $100 repeatedly, how many times does it take to reduce the original amount to zero ?

A: 33.33



And you get a cookie.

People get % wrong so often it's scary.

3% of $100 is $3.00. We are left with $97.

3% of 97 is $2.91. We are left with 94.09

3% of 94.09 is $2.82. We are left with 91.27.

3% of 91.27 is $2.73. We are left with 88.54

Do you see how the numbers approach 0, the % of the principle is also getting smaller too. So each time we are taking a smaller and smaller amount against the 3%. At the end we are taking 3% against 10 cents, then 3% against 9 cents, then 3% against 8 cents etc. It takes forever to remove 3% from 100, actually it takes 3,333 times.

You are not doing multiplication of a factorized amount. You are doing straight linear subtraction from a starting point.

I think you need a cookie.

 

[Torvy]

Even gold has to be turned into currency before being used for most applications.
The dollar is worth what it is because historically we stood in back of it. Ever since WWII it’s been the most reliable currency available.

Interestingly enough, it was not the state, but merchants who standardized coins initially. Governments saw an opportunity and took it over. Before long, some leaders were shaving coins or using alloys to inflate the currency. The reason many coins have the rough edge is to make shaving easier to spot.

 

[riptides]

The dollar rules because of the idea of America is strong. Life...liberty...the pursuit.....

The actual practice of morals, ethics and values....are not applied to the idea at some times.

As long as the idea persists...the dollar will rule.

 

[sandman2234]

Anyone have a business account with a Credit Union?

I thought Credit Union to be my solution but mine does not except Business Tax Payer Identification Number (TIN)

Over the years I have had accounts at other financial institutions but Wells Fargo sooner or later would take over and the reasons for maintaining the business relationship were no longer available…

Wife started a business and we opened a checking account, savings account and a money market checking account in the business name. No issues except that they don’t pay interest on a business savings account, which is why the money market account was opened. Three years later, not a single fee...
David from jax

 

[Oaktree]

Over the years I have had accounts at other financial institutions but Wells Fargo sooner or later would take over and the reasons for maintaining the business relationship were no longer available…

I'm in a rural area that's apparently too small for the big banks to be bothered with. The closest thing we have to a big national bank is Citizen's, and they've been cutting back in this area, concentrating on bigger cities. I've never seen a Wells Fargo (or the other one some were complaining about upthread) in New England.

Some of the smaller regional banks have been merging over the years, but it's always been with another small-ish regional bank.